[Official] Belgian Grand Prix 2024

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by Gerard C

I think rules are the rules and what wrecked a wonderful result is the team. Did they weight Lewis' car too?

I believe that the imbedded FIA official observer in each garage used to be responsible for that after the cars return to parc fermé conditions in the garages.

Do they still combine the weight of the car and driver, and therefore is it possible that Russell lost that 1.5 kilos?

[Lancsbreaker]

Agree a great shame for George, but I also thought that Merc missed a trick, with Piastri closing so quickly, in not letting the quicker car (Lewis) through, to give George the benefit of DRS so that both could go quicker........


Wouldn't have made any difference in the end, of course........

[chunterer]

I never thought Toto was goimg to let the driver leaving the team pass the one staying.. not when that one was leading the race!

Of course Hanilton's face afterwards said it all!

Don't matter now though does it.

[Teretonga]

Originally Posted by chunterer

I never thought Toto was goimg to let the driver leaving the team pass the one staying.. not when that one was leading the race!

Of course Hanilton's face afterwards said it all!

Don't matter now though does it.

No it doesn't change the eventual result but if team orders were that Lewis wasn't to pass George then that would speak volumes.

However, on another site I saw a transcript of communication that said they were told to leave plenty of space, but they could race each other over the last phase of the race.

Team politics/orders, whatever.
But it is clear the Mercedes has eclipsed RBR on high-speed circuits, just not by much. If we have four fairly even teams over the final 10 races then its all to play for.
Sure Max has an advantage in points but now he is defending his lead, not just running off at a canter.

[Teretonga]

Just some interesting analysis from Mark Huges post Spa result.

If you are wondering what happened and why it might prove useful to your understanding.

https://www.the-race.com/formula-1/g...p-mark-hughes/

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by Teretonga

No it doesn't change the eventual result but if team orders were that Lewis wasn't to pass George then that would speak volumes.

However, on another site I saw a transcript of communication that said they were told to leave plenty of space, but they could race each other over the last phase of the race.

Team politics/orders, whatever.
But it is clear the Mercedes has eclipsed RBR on high-speed circuits, just not by much. If we have four fairly even teams over the final 10 races then its all to play for.
Sure Max has an advantage in points but now he is defending his lead, not just running off at a canter.

The 'go ahead but play safely' style message eas clearly broadcast as Hanilton was closing up to the back of Russell.

Certainly suggestimg there would be no team orders.

Although 2 laps from home when Hanilton got a bit squirelly coming out of one or two corners as Piastri homed in, the tv feed showed Wolff's finger twtiching over one of the drivers radio buttons.

This leads me to believe that he was on the verge of telling George to move over to release Lewis and prevent Odcar passing him (or both!)?

[midnight_lurker]

Don't they normally go out of their way to pick up rubber on the cool down lap, to gain ride heigth and weight to the car?

There isn't much pickup on either Russels or hamiltons car in parc fermé.
https://images.ctfassets.net/1fvlg6x...0&q=75&fm=webp

I can't help to think that Russel might have been saved if they had done a proper cool down lap instead of turning directly in to the pits after the race.

[steve_r]

That was the sort of drive by Russell that I expected Perez to do from time to time when he signed up for RBR. Shame for Russell that it did not work out for them in the end, but seems pretty clear cut error.

[morninggents]

Originally Posted by Teretonga

Just some interesting analysis from Mark Huges post Spa result. If you are wondering what happened and why it might prove useful to your understanding.
https://www.the-race.com/formula-1/g...p-mark-hughes/

I watched the highlights on Ch 4 and right at the end they announced that Russell had been disqualified for being underweight. My first thought was 'I wonder if the tyre wear accounted for the weight deficiency?' Perhaps he didn't complete the slow down lap on the 'dirty' parts of the circuit as the drivers used to do in prior years to pick up all the debris on the hot tyres.

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by morninggents

I watched the highlights on Ch 4 and right at the end they announced that Russell had been disqualified for being underweight. My first thought was 'I wonder if the tyre wear accounted for the weight deficiency?' Perhaps he didn't complete the slow down lap on the 'dirty' parts of the circuit as the drivers used to do in prior years to pick up all the debris on the hot tyres.

As has been mentioned, there was no slow-down lap on which to collect tyre rubber - or at least only a very short distance around to the other side of La Source where the cars were waved in.

[ChrisA]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

As has been mentioned, there was no slow-down lap on which to collect tyre rubber - or at least only a very short distance around to the other side of La Source where the cars were waved in.

Why doesn't the FIA allow a complete slow down lap at Spa. Surely the crowd would appreciate it, to cheer their favourite drivers and the winner.

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by ChrisA

Why doesn't the FIA allow a complete slow down lap at Spa. Surely the crowd would appreciate it, to cheer their favourite drivers and the winner.

Probably broadcast concerns. Want to quickly transition to interviews, cooldown room, and podium.

Richard

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by ChrisA

Why doesn't the FIA allow a complete slow down lap at Spa. Surely the crowd would appreciate it, to cheer their favourite drivers and the winner.

It's similar to when racing takes place on the GP extension at Brands; all the cars peel off on, what I know as Bottom Straight, at the back of the pits. So the cars don't even go around Clearways before entering the pits.

[chillibowl]

no doubt TV considerations but a full lap at Spa, even a slow one, would mean more fuel, the need to carry that extra weight all race while having to leave enough in the tank for a sample.

again, im just learning about the short cool down lap here, but its reality also means acknowledging that the teams, up until now, have been benefiting from the lack of cool down lap for years?

adds questions as to why the Merc pitwall didnt take this into account then...is that the (or one of the) school boy errors they were referring to?

[peebee2]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

no doubt TV considerations but a full lap at Spa, even a slow one, would mean more fuel, the need to carry that extra weight all race while having to leave enough in the tank for a sample.

again, im just learning about the short cool down lap here, but its reality also means acknowledging that the teams, up until now, have been benefiting from the lack of cool down lap for years?

adds questions as to why the Merc pitwall didnt take this into account then...is that the (or one of the) school boy errors they were referring to?

No the schoolboy error was not ballasting the car for a one stop race. That’s it.

[FAS33]

Originally Posted by peebee2

No the schoolboy error was not ballasting the car for a one stop race. That’s it.

No the real schoolboy error was lando bottling his starts yet again, going wide and onto the gravel and Oscar getting the inside line to overtake. Just like in Hungary. Oscar will be Maclaren number 1 driver sooner rather then later.

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by peebee2

No the schoolboy error was not ballasting the car for a one stop race. That’s it.

How do you do that mid race tho?

[E.B]

Originally Posted by FAS33

No the real schoolboy error was lando bottling his starts yet again, going wide and onto the gravel and Oscar getting the inside line to overtake. Just like in Hungary. Oscar will be Maclaren number 1 driver sooner rather then later.

Or was the real schoolboy error Oscar cocking up his second stop. In his own words "...that's the second or third time this year we've tried to run over the front jack so I must try and not do that again". He came in for too hot for his final stop, missed his marks completely, and that cost him an extra two seconds stop time.

How much did he lose the race by? He was 0.643 secs behind the race winner That lost 2 seconds likely, if not almost certainly cost Oscar the race win. As it was he finished right on Lewis's gearbox. Without his error he would have been on Lewis's tail 2 or 3 laps earlier and an easy DRS pass would have been his. Coulda woulda shoulda.

[Alan52]

Originally Posted by E.B

Or was the real schoolboy error Oscar cocking up his second stop. In his own words "...that's the second or third time this year we've tried to run over the front jack so I must try and not do that again". He came in for too hot for his final stop, missed his marks completely, and that cost him an extra two seconds stop time.

How much did he lose the race by? He was 0.643 secs behind the race winner That lost 2 seconds likely, if not almost certainly cost Oscar the race win. As it was he finished right on Lewis's gearbox. Without his error he would have been on Lewis's tail 2 or 3 laps earlier and an easy DRS pass would have been his. Coulda woulda shoulda.

I’m not sure about that.After he passed Leclerc he wasn’t making significant ground on Hamilton for a few laps.It wasn’t until Hamilton started get the effect of Russell’s aero wash that Piastri started making up ground.

[Alan52]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

It's similar to when racing takes place on the GP extension at Brands; all the cars peel off on, what I know as Bottom Straight, at the back of the pits. So the cars don't even go around Clearways before entering the pits.

Or Moto GP at Mugello and Phillip Island.

[FAS33]

Originally Posted by E.B

Or was the real schoolboy error Oscar cocking up his second stop. In his own words "...that's the second or third time this year we've tried to run over the front jack so I must try and not do that again". He came in for too hot for his final stop, missed his marks completely, and that cost him an extra two seconds stop time.

How much did he lose the race by? He was 0.643 secs behind the race winner That lost 2 seconds likely, if not almost certainly cost Oscar the race win. As it was he finished right on Lewis's gearbox. Without his error he would have been on Lewis's tail 2 or 3 laps earlier and an easy DRS pass would have been his. Coulda woulda shoulda.

Or maybe the real schoolboy error is Lando choking his starts still despite 6 years in F1. In his own words “ “Honestly, Turn 1 ruined my chances of everything……. so I felt a bit stupid honestly, almost embarrassing – it actually was embarrassing”. If lando didn’t make that mistake turn 1 he could’ve won the race. 7 time world champ Hamilton had 5 laps to overtake George but couldn’t with DRS. What’s that say about him?

[E.B]

Originally Posted by Alan52

I’m not sure about that.After he passed Leclerc he wasn’t making significant ground on Hamilton for a few laps.It wasn’t until Hamilton started get the effect of Russell’s aero wash that Piastri started making up ground.

Lap 40 the gap to Lewis was 3.5, lap 41 it was 2.9, lap 42 it was 1.8. On lap 43 Oscar was 0.2 faster in S1, 0.4 faster in S2 and 0.16 faster in S3. Some 0.76 caught up on that penultimate lap and starting the last lap the gap was 1.053.

He was then within DRS by the time they got to Eau Rouge, and by Pouhon it was well under a second. At the line 0.647.

Without his error and the lost 2 seconds he would have had DRS certainly for 2 laps probably 3.

[E.B]

Originally Posted by FAS33

7 time world champ Hamilton had 5 laps to overtake George but couldn’t with DRS. What’s that say about him?

Instructions from the pit wall not to dice or compromise the team 1-2 in any way.
Or he was struggling and would have been even easier pickings for Oscar without the lost 2 secs

Oh and lets not forget George had a lighter car.

As we know retrospectively Oscar only had to pass the struggling Hamilton for the win.

[Teretonga]

Originally Posted by FAS33

Or maybe the real schoolboy error is Lando choking his starts still despite 6 years in F1. In his own words “ “Honestly, Turn 1 ruined my chances of everything……. so I felt a bit stupid honestly, almost embarrassing – it actually was embarrassing”. If lando didn’t make that mistake turn 1 he could’ve won the race. 7 time world champ Hamilton had 5 laps to overtake George but couldn’t with DRS. What’s that say about him?

Everyone had trouble following at Spa.
Dirty air wouldcause slow cornering and a struggle
If you watched the race via live timing as I did lap times were about 1.48 at the start and about 1.47 at the end with lighter fuel.
For everyone in the leading 8, including Perez.
Oscar was 1 second a lap quicker once in clear air. George has a similar advantage.

He had a big wing as per Max and plenty of down force but struggled in a straight line. Even so he stayed within a 2-3 second gap behind Sainz until his extra stop for new tyres for fastest lap attempt, and that only happened because he was 205 seconds up on Alonso so had time to pit and exit again without creating a problem.

Perez finished within 44 seconds of George and his three stops, two more than George would account for around 38-39 seconds of that difference.

[FAS33]

Originally Posted by E.B

Instructions from the pit wall not to dice or compromise the team 1-2 in any way.
Or he was struggling and would have been even easier pickings for Oscar without the lost 2 secs

Oh and lets not forget George had a lighter car.

As we know retrospectively Oscar only had to pass the struggling Hamilton for the win.

Pit wall said to leave each other space. Does that not mean the green light to race each other? Mercedes cheating? He wasn’t too happy when George crossed the line first. Toto knew what was to come.