Auto Action article on Sandown Safety

[RaceTime]

Originally posted by Chris - Melb
Racetime, I don’t think there are too many racetracks in Australia that are designed with truck racing in mind. Sandown does not conduct truck racing so it is an irrelevant issue in this case.

How did that V8 BRute driver at Wakefield Park fair after the crash?

The only tracks not licenced for truck racing are Philllip Island, Wakefield and, AFAIK, thats it. Sandwn may have let their category lapse but they have had trucks at the track (remember the drag demo on the straight in front of the grandstand that went wrong?) but Davo (being Davo) saw the $$$$'s floating by because the damage they caused.

They ran twice - April 17/18 1993 and again Aprul 16/17 1994. They haven't been back since with Rodney Crick holding the lap record at 1:38.37

from memory the V8 BRute was a write off, but someone else could confirm this.

[RaceTime]

In fact just checking back through my records, Trucks ran at Sandown in 1992 (Drink/Drive Truck Super Prox), 1993 (Truck Super Prix) and again 1994 (as a round of the National Truck Racing Championships)

[Chris - Melb]

Racetime, I meant to say Sandown no longer holds truck events - sorry.

Dirk, Albert Park is a temporary circuit, so concrete is a less time consuming option. Armco is not always suitable for every application or situation.

Have a look at the attached pic. Is Jacques on the phone to the “Armco Police”!!!!

http://www.pitpass.com/images/galler...portmal02r.jpg

The photo is from that “old fashioned” Sepang circuit…

[RaceTime]

Ahhh but how 'old' is Sepang? About 8 years or so isn't it?

I understand there is a very small amount of guard rail in Bahrain (remember Armco is actually a brand name..) and none AFAIK in Shanghai. Be interesting to see actually.

The last Australian track to be built - QLD Raceway - would be the standard. Hidden Valley can't really be counted as it wasn't a 'new' circuit - more a Makeover without the water features..

[Chris - Melb]

"remember Armco is actually a brand name.."

That is why I have been spelling Armco with a capital "A".

If it is true that concrete is as cheap at "Armco" to install, and I was paying for it, then I would be using concrete too. Less maintenance and better for painting advertising signs onto.

Armco is still safe though.

BTW, Sepang was built in 1999 I believe.

[Chris - Melb]

Come on, someone give in, I have a life to live!!!

[RaceTime]

- surely not - no one in here has another life

BTW - thanks for Sepangs date - thought it was earlier..

[spook]

The only reason Sepang got guardrail was the cheap labour component brought down the price per metre. There are currently 3,000 people on-site working to build the Shanghai Circuit - labour is cheap and plentiful in Asia.

Also they probably never did a cost comparison with concrete because of it's "high cost" perception and low labour content. Sometimes you have to use the best resources in the local area. Labour is probably cheaper than concrete in Asia.

The "Steel Beam Guardrail" was probably imported from Australia with assistance from us as "Foreign Aid Development Funds". BTW - that is an unfounded rumour, AFAIK.

[Chris - Melb]

I am too lazy to spell guardrail so I use "Armco" instead.

On highways lately I have noticed guardrail with black and yellow decals with the name "Ingall" on it.

I presume it is a brand name of the guardrail. I wonder if Russell has shares in the company!

I await rude responses from disaffected Holden Fans

Call me slow but what does AFAIK stand for?

[Chris - Melb]

I am too lazy to spell guardrail so I use "Armco" instead.

On highways lately I have noticed guardrail with black and yellow decals with the name "Ingall" on it.

I presume it is a brand name of the guardrail. I wonder if Russell has shares in the company!

I await rude responses from disaffected Holden Fans

Call me slow but what does AFAIK stand for?

[RaceTime]

AFAIK, AFAIK stands for As Far As I Know

And no - never call anyone thick - just not widely read - cheers

[Matt H]

Originally posted by Chris - Melb
Did Matthew Coleman escape from that major accident unharmed? I rest my case!!!

ahh but chris, did the flag marshall escape unnharmed......

[spook]

Marshalls should never stand within 1m of triple height guardrail - it deflects in a impact.

Now the safest barrier in the world is Wire Rope Safety Fence. You will see more and more of it around Australian roads as the authorities realise just how good it is.

In a racetrack installation it is not so good. It's safety comes from it's dynamic deflection and recoil - which would mean the moat around tracks would have to be a minimum of 3m wide for deflection plus the 3m for marshalls and safety.

But it will never be used at a racetrack, because it does not look as safe as "Single Slope Concrete Barrier".

And no Dorothy, it does not cut motorcycle riders in half. It has been used around the world for nearly ten years now and there has not been a single fatality involving a motorcyclist and wire rope safety fence. If I had a choice I would crash a bike into wire rope fence before guardrail or concrete wall.

[Matt H]

spook, are you an official, try officialing just after start finish at sandown, and many other points... u have to.

the official im talking bout got hit from flying debrie...


....edited for spelling and addition

[Grimace]

Originally posted by Chris - Melb
I am too lazy to spell guardrail so I use "Armco" instead.

On highways lately I have noticed guardrail with black and yellow decals with the name "Ingall" on it.

I presume it is a brand name of the guardrail. I wonder if Russell has shares in the company!

I await rude responses from disaffected Holden Fans

Call me slow but what does AFAIK stand for?

Yeh i too see that "Ingall" marked Guardrail up here in Sydney.

Is it really to catch Skaifes????

[aj_308]

only 1 l INGAL, i believe. Still makes me giggle though..

[deeks6]

I'll just throw in one thing here re:Sandown
It's only been 7 or 8 months since they re-opened the racetrack with 2 brand new cambered horse racing tracks costing $millions. AFAIK, the Melbourne Racing Club intends to hang on to this asset for some time yet because it is (allegedly) the best all-weather racetrack in the country and they want to save their other track Caulfield.
Don't know how this relates to the car track but hwy would you throw away certain cash by turfing (excuse the pun) it? I suspect Sandown will be with us for some time yet.

[RaceTime]

POssibly true - but then the other question is - who paid for it? The club, TAB or a grant?

[spook]

Yes Matt H, I have done lots of flagging over the years at points where I thought it was risky, but you do it for "the sport".

I just think no one should have to do it without knowing the risks.

I am sorry the marshall was hit by flying debris, i hope he/she has recovered. I don't recall ever seeing that mentioned in the reports from the crash. I know from experience that even when you see it coming, you just can't move quick enough.

[spook]

BTW - I think you will find that the "Ingal" company took over the "Armco" company a few years ago. AFAICR.

[Ross Palmer]

Ingal is the brand name for "INDUSTRIAL GALVANIZERS" an Australian company owned by DELTA UK.
Their primary business is the running of "hot dip galvanizing plants " all over the world .
The roll forming and galvanizing of guardrail is one of many product lines.
Their head office is in Brisbane.
ARMCO is the shortened name for what was originally the "American Rolling Mills Company" of Middletown OHIO.
In the 1920,s they invented the process of continuous "hot strip rolling mills,which was adapted from "paper newsprint plants".
Today in excess of 50% of all the steel in the world is made into "hot rolled strip" for further conversion into products like "tubes" ,guard rail,and car bodies and panels for example.
Don,t ask me to comment on "SANDOWN" track safety ,and in particular the 2 high ARMCO in some sections,as Jon Davison has publicly said in this week,s "AUTO ACTION" that in effect I am a "Wally" who knows nothing about safety in relation to his track.
So best leave that one alone.

[Big Trev]

Surely Ross, you are not old enough to recall al this stuff (1920'), are you? :-)

But, thanks for the background.

[RaceTime]

- maybe not old enough, but 'Wally' was in the business long enough to know more about it than Davison ever could or would...

[Chris - Melb]

I spoke to a rather heated Jon Davison about the issues raised in this thread and he has asked me to relay his disgust that unsubstantiated rumours have been placed on this forum.

In relation to the future of the Sandown complex, Jon said that at no time has the Melbourne Racing Club (formerly the Victoria Amateur Turf Club) indicated that they wish to sell the property or for motor racing to not continue there.

Under the recent “Project Manikato” programme Melbourne Racing Club spent $7m dollars upgrading the Sandown horse racing facilities and around $350,000 realigning the motor racing circuit.

There are now two horse racing circuits to accommodate the ever increasing demand for race meetings and track hire. There were 43 race meetings conducted during the 2002/2003 race season, a major increase over previous years and the racing surface is one of the best in Australia.

As for the suggestions that Sandown car racing circuit is unsafe, Jon said that no one has been injured due to failed safety systems at the circuit. He quotes the Mathew Coleman incident as a prime example. The guardrail kept the car on the correct side of the fence and the sand trap arrested the car.

Jon said that he is under no immediate CAMS work order for safety improvements and that CAMS inspect the circuit regularly. Jon claimed that both he and the Phillip Island circuit promoters are fed up with people suggesting that their circuits are unsafe.

Jon said he would prefer that people spoke to him before starting rumours such as above.

In regard to criticism by category organisers about the racing surface, Jon said that he raced F5000’s on rougher circuits and that he ran softer spring setups to adapt to the surface. He quotes Champ Car circuits such as Cleveland that successfully run modern open wheel racing despite being bumpier than Sandown. He said that category organizers have two options, lump it or leave it!

[RaceTime]

Originally posted by Chris - Melb
In regard to criticism by category organisers about the racing surface, Jon said that he raced F5000’s on rougher circuits and that he ran softer spring setups to adapt to the surface. He quotes Champ Car circuits such as Cleveland that successfully run modern open wheel racing despite being bumpier than Sandown. He said that category organizers have two options, lump it or leave it!

And cars used to be raced without seat belts, roll bars/cages, fire extinguishers - drivers used to race in shirt sleeves, without helmets etc etc etc.

This is 2004 - NOT 1974 - times and safety standard have changed.

So if they lump it or leave it - who is the big loser here? Procar still has 3 other Victorian circuits to choose from - so would appear they aren't going to be the loser.