What do you think should happen next?

[Stephen Green]

It's still an unsatisfactory outcome as I'm sure you agree.

[rick vaux]

Darcym, it smells a bit fishy...

[darcym]

Apologies to rick vaux I thought this was an octogon call not an MSA. Thats why I was keen for your view as a PR person.

[roys1]

I actually know the person involved with this small mistake and am lead to believe that only the last board was shown and not the flag to those 5 drivers, they then came round expecting the flag and slowed, however by that time person and race control had realised and as per 750 club regs added the 2 laps. flag was then shown at correct time 2 laps later ...

[Ian-S]

Did you get your £150 back?

I did in a similar situation, overtaken under yellow flags, 15 witnesses, including 5 drivers, but nothing was done to the offending driver - why?

Because there was no observers report to backup my claim.

I was given my money back so that there would be no report made to the MSA, it was my understanding in those days that if the money was returned and no action taken, no report was sent - the "event" didn't exist in effect.

If it was me, I would have sat out of the Final and taken it to the MSA to prove the point, but then my Mother always said I was bloody minded - take after her you see

I could also tell you another story about an event being run to International Regulations at Brands Hatch, under Int. Regs. the Black and Yellow flag has no meaning, it was used and because the foreign people racing didn't know what it meant, a five car pileup ensued, after the race I was given a National A signature, when asked why I was told that the event had been downgraded, I jumped up and down on my little soapbox and was given the Int. Signature I needed, but was told to keep quiet because of the Black/Yellow flag incident, no action was taken against the drivers because the organising club didn't want to be shown up as a load of idiots.

And these people run meetings week in, week out.

[Stephen Green]

Ian, just a small point in an effort to try and help you understand it from a marshals perspective. I am an observer and as such have to write the reports for offences like overtaking under yellows etc. It is my view that if I don't see the incident, I don't write a report. If my Incident Officer sees it and is prepared to sign a report, then I will write one. The other big problem we have is the lack of marshals at many meetings, especially on a Saturday. Recently I was at Brands and had top observe two posts at the same time. I'm sure you will understand that in those conditions there are bound to be times when I miss incidents.

I'm not trying to make excuses for what happened, merely to try and offer some explanation as to why it may have happened. As I'm sure you are aware there has been a huge explosion in two day meetings, especially this year, and to get the requisite number of volunteers is becoming increasingly difficult.

I would urge the drivers amongst you to use the rule of doing a days marshalling for which you can gain a signature on your racing licence. It would help us and also help to give drivers a better view of the frustrations of marshalling.

As I said, not a 'pop' at anyone, merely trying to make constructive comments.

[av8rirl]

I'd like to say that firstly the £150 was not refunded.

Secondly, when I tried to peel off into the pits, a driver dived up the inside nearly taking causing an incident. This was despite the fact that I was clearly slowed down and was waving my arm in the air (as were other drivers).

Thirdly, this was not the fault of the marshals and I bear no gripe with the marshals.

I do have a problem with that days COC and a certain Ms Aires who basically told me to f0ck off. Having raced at all 750MC races last year (at considerable cost and travelling from Thurs nite to Mon morning), this helped my decision not to race with 750MC this year.

[Dave Brand]

Just to add to Stephen's comments, to report overtaking under yellow flags it is necessary to know the numbers of both cars involved. I've been in situations where everybody on the post has seen the overtake, but because the nuber of one of the cars was obscured, we were unable to report it.

[Stephen Green]

And I'm sorry to hear you have decided not to race with 750 MC as I have always found them a good club to marshal for.

[av8rirl]

Previous to this incident, I always found them to be a good club to race for. I had grown fond of Robin and Kathleen Knight who organise most meetings. I liked the sometimes COC John Smith a lot and could even tolerate Ms Aires (maybe thats spelled Ayres). Scrutineers and all other officials were never anything but helpful.

Maybe it was the people at Brands? Has anyone else had a problem with officialdom at Brands? or the organisers at Mallory (the friendly track)?

[Stephen Green]

Errr I'm from Brands

[av8rirl]

I hope you weren't involved??

[Stephen Green]

Don't think so *wipes sweat from brow*

[ss_collins]

I hate brands, It should be my home circuit but I won't go there anymore due to the way everyone is treated. Its Lydden for me now or occasionally Castle Combe. Two circuits who know how to treat people (like humans not chequebooks). Brands is a very unfriendly place. I really do dislike it. And the owners are well insert your own four letter words.

[Stephen Green]

Is it Brands you don't like or the organising clubs?

[Dave Brand]

Getting back on topic....

At the bike GP meeting on Sunday the chequered flag was shown a lap early in the 125 race. The result was, quite rightly, declared at the end of the lap where the chequered flag had been shown.

[ss_collins]

The venue itself as a bit of land is great for racing, but sometimes the clubs are not eactly friendly but then these are the same clubs who run superb meetings elsewhere. The whole place is just not very nice to be present at, I dunno who's fault that is. Why is it that brands can't put on a show like at Castle Combe. The place is frankly an insult to the sport.

[Richy_Rich]

Interesting to see Brands getting stick. Personally, I love the circuit (as in the track).

One of our last races of the season was there, and we were expected to pay £170 for a 10 minute race. £17 pounds a minute (or £8.50 if you're picky and include practice - which was on a different day...). Many drivers didn't turn up, and at least one put a statement on his website detailing why (not me, my car was out of action anyway). As far as I know the organising club blamed increased circuit hire costs, which is feasible, but ferchrissake that's a new gearbox for our cars.

I spent less when I did a _day_ at the race school there. I know it's slightly off topic, but GRRR.

[Ian-S]

Originally posted by Stephen Green
As I said, not a 'pop' at anyone, merely trying to make constructive comments.

Wasn't taking a pop at you guys either, just officialdom, even though there were 15 witnesses, because of no observers report nothing could be done.

I know how hard it is to see what's happenning, I do remember a race at Silverstone that had 3 observers on each post, do they still do this?

My Yellow Flag problem arose at Mallory....

[Stephen Green]

Hi Ian,

It really depends on the meeting and the number of volunteers they get. Some of the clubbies really struggle for marshals, especially when there are several race meetings on over the same weekend. Undermanning is rapidly becoming a fact of life I'm afraid. Several of us marshals have been very active in trying to recruit new members and it does seem to be working at the moment.

So, to answer your question, it's a bit of a lottery really. Saturdays are always going to be short on marshals as many prefer to do the race day rather than watch practice sessions. If you are married and have a young family it's difficult to justify a whole weekend at the track.

I guess the big difference between driving and marshalling (apart from the obvious) is that as a driver you do have the opportunity to take your family with you and between sessions/races can spend time with them. Marshals are trackside from around 9.00am Saturday or 10.00am Sunday until 6.30pm often without a break. That in itself makes it difficult for marshals to take their family along as your partner often ends up on her/his own for the bulk of the day.