Tracy's Punishment

[Liz]

Dixon's engineer seemed to believe that Dixon was doing something provocative (although he did say he couldn't make out what or why). But I would have thought after the event mentioned with Paul, Dixon would have realised that Helio was not in the mood for any more provocations.

I don't think Paul will go to the IRL, but it wouldn't surprise me if he looks at sports cars of some kind (he'd be a natural in Trans Am for example). His father said he was talking about retirement, but of course this might be just due to his current frustration level.

I still think he'll end up owning his own team some day and will be a ferocious team owner that will remind everyone of A.J. Foyt and Junion Johnson.

[botsquad]

Originally posted by Hans.ca
Paul got it right, Kneifel is not only a clown he is also an *******.

and his name can be....Buttzo

[Dr. Austin]

It looked to me like Helio was the one out of control, wigggling back and forth. So, what is more important to address, Helio turning Paul around in a crowded pit lane, or Paul just talking honestly? I mean, people could have died, but is it really more important for Kneifel to save face? Is CART addressing the real issure here, or are they making a mess out of something again in an all to familiar pattern?

[Airhead]

Welcome Doc.

I agree with the sentiments expressed in your first post.

Paul should be the one getting the appology.

[Dr. Austin]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by f1manoz

"This whole situation is, in lehmanns terms, completely f**ked up and Kniefel is an ar$eclown for this judgement."

Well, here is a question for everyone; When was the last time an official made a bad call or ruined an IRL race? Uhhhhh, maybe it was during the USAC days.

"How could they penalize Tracy for bad driving when Castroneves took blame for the incident?"

Tracy mouthed off, that's all. Again, what is more important, getting a handle on irresponsible driving, or kicking Tracy in the nuts because he spoke up? He didn't even call Kneifel a clown. He merely said the series would be better off with a circus clown for cheif steward. He is right, too. Name the last CART race the officials didn't ruin.

I don't have to list all the bad officiating that CART has suffered through this season. Everyone saw it. But when was the last time you even SAW and IRL official? When was the last time it was necessary for an IRL official to make a ruling? A smoothely run ship doesn't need to have it's course corrected very much.

"And if the fine is for Tracy said, they should be paying him $50,000 for having the balls to say what most people think of the officiating with the series at the moment"

Anything to distract from what is going on with CART. It is a lame technique called "blameshifting." Kneifel has no one's respect, so the incidents keep coming. Instead of Kneifel saying "We are going to stop all of this carelessness" we are getting "Paul called me a name! WAAAAA!!!" Blame successfully shifted. Kneifel runs a haphazard show, but Tracy is now the bad guy.


"It's getting beyond a joke."

I agree. They won't be happy until they have run everyone out but the Brazillian pretty boy Tobbacco pimping Senna wannabees. It is sickening to see what has happened to the formerly most competitive series on earth.

The bigggest part of the joke is that the IRL is serenely sailing on from one spectacular venue to the next, from one sellout crowd to the next, from one network broadcast to the next, from crowning a new young gun champion to ushering in the the next Rick Mears, Jacques Lazier. While the biggest news this week in CART is the signing of another Brazilian buy a driver, the IRL is grooming another new superstar that actually speaks my language.

I will continue to watch both series and hope CART can pull their heads out, but hopefull I am not. Not until the guys like Penske and Patrick (and maybe Ganassi) take the reins.

[Valve Bounce]

OK, you guys talked me into it. After reading about how more than half the field was decimated, and more than half the race was run under yellows, I didn't bother to watch the race. But after reading the intense discussions about Paul's behaviour, I checked and found that I hadn't overtaped the race, so I'll watch it after I go to the dentist today.

[mac]

I had a dream last night that Chris Kneifel was a former NBA player and I stumbled across one of his old basketball cards.

[SevenGrain]

Originally posted by Dr. Austin

But when was the last time you even SAW an IRL official? When was the last time it was necessary for an IRL official to make a ruling? .

It was August 12th as a matter of fact... here is an excerpt from the release...

Indy Racing League Vice President of Operations Brian Barnhart issued a penalty notice Aug. 24 to driver Scott Sharp for unsportsmanlike conduct during the Belterra Casino Indy 300.

Citing Rules 8.1 and 8.3 of the 2001 Indy Racing League Rule Book, Sharp was fined an undisclosed amount for on-track actions during the event Aug. 12 at Kentucky Speedway.

"The Indy Racing League has established a reputation for presenting close, exciting open-wheel racing," said Barnhart. "Instrumental in this style of racing is a code of ethics that's been developed by the drivers and league officials which creates an atmosphere on the track that allows for wheel-to-wheel racing. Scott's actions were not appropriate at Kentucky."

Sharp may appeal the penalty prescribed in Section 12.1 of the rule book. An appeal may result in an increase, decrease or no change to the penalty.

Irresponsible driving, and Sharp is hit with a fine, same as Tracy. Only Sharp didn't blast Barnhardt after the fact or cry that it was somebody elses fault. If Paul would have let well enough alone after the pit lane incident he'd not have been relieved of 50 grand and three points. But instead he goes around and pulls into the Penske pit and does a burnout and then calls the chief steward a clown for not penalizing Helio. If you ask me, it's not the CART officiating in question here. A loose cannon like Tracy makes his own luck. And Doc, the IRL is certainly not immune to loose cannons.

[Dr. Austin]

Oh, you got me on that one. That one slipped my mind. But it didn't ruin a race, did it? The one that ruined a race was the idiotic swerving and blocking at the first 2001 Texas race. No only that, Robbie McGehee has still got a little surgery to face for getting in the way of other's stupidity.

You are right that the IRL is not immune. But the big difference is that they did something about it and laid donw the law. Sharp got what is rumored to be a really big fine and an *** chewing. He sure didn't block at the Texas II race, and that led to one of the greatest finishes I have ever seen.

No, maybe they have laid down the law with Tracy, but this would be how many times now? I say stupid and irresponsible driving is what ruins the races and both leagues need to police it strenously. The reason there is no passing in F-1 is because the FIA lets them all swerve like a bunch of drunken monkeys. CART has their "one move" rule, but Jeff Krosnoff died as a result of someone making just one move. I think the IRL's "pick a line and keep it" policy is not only the easiest to understand and police, it is also the most sporting. Watch Buddy and Sam race and that defines sporting driving.

Anyway, kudos for catching one that got by me. The racing since Texas I has been so clean that the first Lone Star race is just a bad memory. As far as driver conduct policing, the IRL needs to keep it up and CART needs to step it up. And F-1? Schui swerving is the new rage, where have you been?

[mac]

Originally posted by Dr. Austin
The bigggest part of the joke is that the IRL is serenely sailing on from one spectacular venue to the next, from one sellout crowd to the next, from one network broadcast to the next, from crowning a new young gun champion to ushering in the the next Rick Mears, Jacques Lazier. While the biggest news this week in CART is the signing of another Brazilian buy a driver, the IRL is grooming another new superstar that actually speaks my language.

If you want a spectacular venue, stay tuned to the CART race this weekend. I doubt very much if there is a more spectacular venue anywhere in the world. Oh, and the crowd is guaranteed to be good.

Frankly, I don't care what language my champions speak, as long as the racing's good. And you can't complain about the racing in CART. The politics sux, but the racing is the best.

[SevenGrain]

I agree whole heartedly, CART's drivers are the best no matter where they come from, and the racing is tops.

[Dr. Austin]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by mac
[B]

"if you want a spectacular venue, stay tuned to the CART race this weekend. I doubt very much if there is a more spectacular venue anywhere in the world."

Yeah, Surfers is spectacular, no doubt. Can't wait to go scuba there. And the girls......!!!!!!!!!

"Frankly, I don't care what language my champions speak, as long as the racing's good."

I just hate to see good American talent shown the door because some Brazillian Senna wannabe brings in Tobbacco money, that's all. Alex Baron had a real shot at winning Surfers last year, but was crashed out by, you guessed it, a Brazillian. But where is Baron now? He has a test contract with a crappy tail end team. I am not going to apologize for being a patriotic American who wants to see his compatriots succeed in their own country's supposed elite series. I care where my champions are from. Maybe this makes me zenophobic, but in other countries it is called being nationalistic and it is considered an attribute. Sorry for the rant. 9/11 still haunts us all.

"And you can't complain about the racing in CART. The politics sux, but the racing is the best."

Not always. You only have to go back one week to see the guy who started 25th win after pitting five times and passing only one car on the track. That is not quality racing. Spinning you opponent out in the pits is not good, clean racing. Racing is on the track, who cares about passing in the pits?

Don't fly off the handle because I am first and foremost (as far as openwheelers) a CART fan, but they have screwed up almost everything this year, including most of the races. CART, until 2001, was the most fiercely competitive series in the world, but a realistic look reveals they didn't have a good year at all. Most of the races stunk, but we all hope they do better next year, if Uncle Joe doesn't railroad them to hell. That guy learned how to speak from Clinton.

As far as CART drivers being the best, there is not one, not one, who wouldn't be in F-1 if they got a competitive drive. Not one. Any of them would break their contract and be gone in a micro heartbeat if Ferrari offered them a ride. F-1 is the unchallenged best. Give Schumacher one of Coyne's old clapped out hunks of wrung out trash and he would spank them so bad they would have impotence problems for the rest of their lives. So, not everyone can get to or maintain a career in F-1, so there are other forms of racing for the guys who are not at that level. No shame in not being one of the six best in the world (the rest are buy a drivers).

Hopefully CART can pull their head out and go back to what they do best...race. But be realistic and know this was not even close to their best year. They can do better and let's hope they do.

[mac]

Originally posted by Dr. Austin

I just hate to see good American talent shown the door because some Brazillian Senna wannabe brings in Tobbacco money, that's all.

I completely understand. As an Australian, the lack of funding our drivers get makes me most unhappy. I was filthy last year when Jason Bright (who was a realistic shot at a podium at Surfers last year) never really looked like getting a drive because he didn't have any money.

Originally posted by Dr. Austin
Not always. You only have to go back one week to see the guy who started 25th win after pitting five times and passing only one car on the track.

That's how Alex Barron was in with a shot of winning in Surfers last year.

As for racing, out of anything else in the world, I know which four-wheel racing series I want to watch for racing and excitement - CART.

Originally posted by Dr. Austin
Don't fly off the handle because I am first and foremost (as far as openwheelers) a CART fan, but they have screwed up almost everything this year, including most of the races. CART, until 2001, was the most fiercely competitive series in the world, but a realistic look reveals they didn't have a good year at all. Most of the races stunk, but we all hope they do better next year

I wasn't flying off the handle (if I was, you'd have known ). I am the first to admit that off the track performances by CART this year have been attrocious. On another thread I stated that I was FUMING!! (and I still am) at their treatment of engine manufacturers. I also stated that the only members of CART that can hold their heads high are the members of the CART safety team. I am as upset as anyone about the way CART have handled most situations this year.

Originally posted by Dr. Austin
As far as CART drivers being the best, there is not one, not one, who wouldn't be in F-1 if they got a competitive drive. Not one. No shame in not being one of the six best in the world (the rest are buy a drivers).

Since when did f1 enter this debate? I thought it was IRL and CART. I cannot accept that the better drivers of these two categories only turn left, when the other guys run on vastly different tracks at every different round.

As for f1, I am not pretending that f1 is not the pinnacle. It most certainly is. I'm just saying that as a spectacle, I'd prefer to watch CART at the moment. (This may change if the cars become pedal-powered)

Only six f1 drivers are there on merit? Surely that was an exaggeration. Raikkonen, Heidfeld, Fisichella, Trulli, Villeneuve, Alonso?

While this may not have been CART's best year, it was still the first series I watched.

Oh, by the way, welcome Doc!!!

[Airhead]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Dr. Austin
[B]

Originally posted by mac


Give Schumacher one of Coyne's old clapped out hunks of wrung out trash and he would spank them so bad they would have impotence problems for the rest of their lives.

Wish I had written that

Guess we ain't talking Ralf Schumnacher here.

I think Tracey would be great in F1, definitely worth the price of admission alone.

[Dr. Austin]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by mac


"As for racing, out of anything else in the world, I know which four-wheel racing series I want to watch for racing and excitement - CART."

Thankfully, we don't have to choose, do we? My first favorite is and always been sportscars. I was the helmet polisher for Penske when they won the 24 hrs of Daytona in '69 and the magic never left me.

"wasn't flying off the handle "

No, you are fine. Sometimes I forget I am no longer trapped at AR1 where anything you say about anyone, good or bad, will get you attacked.

"the only members of CART that can hold their heads high are the members of the CART safety team."

Every series need a crew like them. I am critical of the IRL for their lack of a safety team and for not requiring HANS.


"I'm just saying that as a spectacle, I'd prefer to watch CART at the moment."

Ok, you seem like a reasonable guy, so I offer you a friendly challenge. Watch two IRL races with a completely open mind. Don't just tune in hoping to see them embarrass themselves. Just give the IRL an honest chance and you may grow to like it. Just have fun with it and ignore Jason Priestly (whom I like) if he bugs you. If you still think the IRL isn't fun to watch, come tell me I am full of it. Watching any race before this year does not count. Yes, they sucked until this year, but 2001 was a sterling and thrilling season. Just give it a chance.


"Only six f1 drivers are there on merit? Surely that was an exaggeration. Raikkonen, Heidfeld, Fisichella, Trulli, Villeneuve, Alonso"

I exaggerate to drive home the point. Certainly there are more than six, but how many of them have ever won anything? And who can beat Schumacher, anyway?

"While this may not have been CART's best year, it was still the first series I watched."

CART has and can still do lots better and we should demand that they do. Previous to this year, CART was my fav of the two OW series, but the IRL made up alot of ground. Next year we have 35 races and I prefer to enjoy all of them rather than pick one side and hate the other. It's 35 races of OW wheel to wheel, backs to the wall , super he-man, chest thumping action. For me, there is really nothing to fight about. I love it all.


"Oh, by the way, welcome Doc!!! "

Hopefully we can have a Foster's sometime at a race and eat like pigs and watch the cars go around. And, of course, watch the girls.

[KC]

I have stayed out of this agument for the most part because I did not get to see all of the race. Having seen footage of the incident between Tracy and Castroneves I saw this. Neither driver was willing to compromise and both forced the contact. Both drivers should have been penalized for contact in the pits. I think that Tracy's fine was a little too high, but here is the rub. He cannot go out on the track and make contact with other competitors because he is p1ssed about the pit incident. And he damn sure cannot go to the press and make inflammatory comments like he did. You are not allowed to call the boss an ******** to his face in front of the rest of the employees and the world without reprisal. Tracy's big mouth got him there. He should have gone to Kniefel and ripped him a new one in private, not to the press. Maybe Kniefel figured one chickensh1t action deserved another, I do not know. Now Castroneves was probably verbally warned for his actions and that looks unfair considering Tracy's penalty, but past history pays a big part in this as well. Castroneves has not been causing situations like Tracy has been involved in. He is not making all kinds of ridiculous remarks to the press concerning CART either. If I was Kniefel, I'd have kicked Tracy's ass personally and then fined him.

I like Tracy, I think he is an awesome racer. But he needs to grow up and deal with the sh1t that goes on. Have you seen Franchitti pitching a walleyed fit everytime he gets taken out or the car fails? No. Have you seen Cristiano daMatta cursing CART and the stewards for his pitiful luck this year? No. Tracy has no excuse for his actions at Laguna Seca and needs to look in the mirror before calling names.

Has anyone else notice that Tracy's career was right on track when Tony Cicale was involved in his racing? While TC is gone Tracy cannot seem to get through a season without some sort of probation situation. Strangely enough, during TC's tenure at Player's this year Carpentier and Tagliani have improved greatly. I don't think that is coincidence at all.

[mac]

Originally posted by Dr. Austin
Ok, you seem like a reasonable guy, so I offer you a friendly challenge. Watch two IRL races with a completely open mind. Don't just tune in hoping to see them embarrass themselves. Just give the IRL an honest chance and you may grow to like it.

Does the Indy 500 count? I thoroughly enjoyed that race, and did note the spanking that the CART guys gave the IRL guys

I must admit that from the footage I have seen of the IRL, I would definitely watch it if we got more coverage in Australia. However, I am just pointing out that I prefer CART. It is everyone's right to prefer what they prefer.

Oh yeah Doc, I might take you up on that drinking, eating and racing thing one day. As long as it's not Foster's!

Back to the Paul Tracy thing. I agree with you KC. The main reason I don't like Paul Tracy is his attitude. I admire his aggression and ability, BUT his attitude stinks. I have never seen anyone blame other people as much as Paul does. It is never his fault. Maybe he should realise that humility is a likeable trait. I was impressed (and slightly amused) at Moreno's heartfelt apology to his team and sponsors for stuffing up at Laguna. If that was Paul, this is what he would have said:
"I can't believe Dario would do that! He put me off by driving in front of me! This is ridiculous! As for Jourdain, how dare he crash off while I am getting attention for stuffing it in the wall! I'll teach them both a lesson when we get to Australia! I just cannot believe how CART run these races! It's just disappointing how I end up out of the race, while these two idiots are allowed to continue, when one clearly distracted me and the other one took my attention!!!! We'd be better off with a monkey ... no, a babboon ... no, an orangutan ... what I mean is, CART are a bunch of w*nkers! **** off!!!"

[Dr. Austin]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by mac

"Does the Indy 500 count? I thoroughly enjoyed that race, and did note the spanking that the CART guys gave the IRL guys"

Sure, it's an IRL points race, isn't it? And it was a great race, too. The IRL formula almost guarantees a bunch of closely matched cars. But the IRL guys are really going to have to step it up next May. Three losses in a row would not look good for them. In fairness, alot of the IRL guys that run at the front had mechanical problems this year, but I won't make excuses for anyone. If they can't compete, well this is racing. Get real or get lost. They either need to step it up or when some of the CART teams come in full time it will get real ugly. I think Panther and Hemelgarn can do that. And Foyt, if he can get some funding from someone but Scrotozar.

None of it matters anyway. It will still be a spanking, but this time it will be Jacques Lazier who is holding the paddle. I don't believe I am psychic (psychotic, maybe) or anything, but I really feel something when I write about his chances. I think this kid is the new Rick Mears.


"It is everyone's right to prefer what they prefer."

I'll drink to that. I prefer Icehouse draught.

"Oh yeah Doc, I might take you up on that drinking, eating and racing thing one day. As long as it's not Foster's!"

OK, no Foster's. But don't forget about eating like pigs and watching girls.

[BootsOntheSide]

As far as the IRL is cocerned, in terms of talent, it always ahs been, and always will be, second string to CART. Right from the word go, the drivers and teams who went from CART to IRl were the tail-enders who had no chance of CART success, and maybe felt that removing the difficulty of having to turn right as well as left would make it easier. But for sure IRL is good racing. CART, however, even with some of the organisational issues this season, is still better than IRL, and truly ptus F1 in the shade. And Dr Austin's comments honestly strike me as imbecillic nationalism. Most of us don't care where a driver comes from, as long as he is good. In terms of the way British race fans view it, witness the criticism Jenson Button has recieved this year- just because a few nationalist lowest-common-denominator tabloid rags choose to rave over him, not due to any talent but because he's (allegedly) handosm eand British, doesn't mean real racefans care. So if you have a problem with Brazillian drivers in 'your' series, see a counseller as to your obvious xenophobia. Maybe you don't need to worry, money (America's almighty Lord and Saviour) has got Alex Barron back in, at the expense of someone who had more ability and was already proving it.

[Dr. Austin]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by BootsOntheSide

"And Dr Austin's comments honestly strike me as imbecillic nationalism."

Since you want to take the gloves off and throw around names, here is some more zenophobia for you; Americans don't have to and won't apologize to anyone for rooting for their own. Do I believe there should be quotas? Hell no. But I would like to see more young Americans get a chance. And not in any of Coyne's trash, either. Good opportunities. That's why the IRL was established and it is working. Sure, foriegners are welcome, where is the zenophobia there?

"see a counseller as to your obvious xenophobia."

See yours about your unnecessary hostility. If he can't help, I'll be glad to prescribe an enema for you. That should fix the most obvious part of YOUR problem.

[Joe Fan]

Originally posted by BootsOntheSide
Most of us don't care where a driver comes from, as long as he is good.

I don't either but some CART teams except foreign ride buyers or those who bring big sponsorship dollars over talent. It is not like the series has the best talent that is can find or the best talent that it can afford. Many of the CART owners are businessmen first, racers second, who are there to make money and will try to find suitable driver who they can pay chump change to.

[KC]

Every form of racing has drivers in it that probably do not belong. CART does, the IRL does (my God, Hattori is in it), Formula 1 does, and NASCAR does. How many drivers in NASCAR are related to another driver in that series? How many drivers have a ride just because they are the cousin or brother-in-law or nephew to another driver? Plenty. Many drivers have a sponsorhip package that is very lucrative to a team in need. So they take on a driver that has dubious skills and work on making him and the team better.