[WTCC] Round 2 - Marrakech (MAR), 1st - 2nd May

[redshoes]

Can't believe they didn't red-flag both races whilst the the track was cleared. As soon as you need to get the recovery truck to lift a car you know you are going to lose too many laps.

[Planty]

Totally horrible 2 races.....if i counted right...10 laps from 13 under SC in R2?
Thats unbelieveable.......maybe they could red flagged it....but they could also had have better organisation....just how long did taken them to move away Romanov´s car?......if i was race organiser...i would install crane into each of chicanes and then just move crashed car behind barriers.....i think this would have been better way instead of messing up with trucks.

And......does this circuit have any future now?

[redshoes]

Originally Posted by Planty

i would install crane into each of chicanes and then just move crashed car behind barriers.....i think this would have been better way instead of messing up with trucks.

The point was made during commentary that they did have cranes at the chicanes but the accidents actually happened on the straight after the chicanes so were out of reach.

They have suspended/re-started races when this has happened at Pau and Macau so it's within the regs to have done the same here.

[Andy77]

Originally Posted by FIRE

Sure but they lack TV coverage outside UK.

I live in the middle of northern Germany and get ITV4 fine here (if it is dry - but that's another rather technical topic)

[awrb]

Originally Posted by Andy77

I live in the middle of northern Germany and get ITV4 fine here (if it is dry - but that's another rather technical topic)

I live in Birmingham in the middle of the UK and ITV4 is the one channel I can't get!!!

[Icebaby]

I like the street races but there were some serious crashes in F2 and WTCC race. It did not suprise me Menu and Farfus involved both are quick drivers but prove yet again at being a big risk in the damage they cause.

Both had wrecked many cars (some not there fault of course) but it raises the question again if they both should be there when drivers like Giovarnardi and Thompson are not who are just as quick but not as accident prone.

[Andy77]

Originally Posted by Icebaby

I like the street races but there were some serious crashes in F2 and WTCC race. It did not suprise me Menu and Farfus involved both are quick drivers but prove yet again at being a big risk in the damage they cause.

Both had wrecked many cars (some not there fault of course) but it raises the question again if they both should be there when drivers like Giovarnardi and Thompson are not who are just as quick but not as accident prone.

LOL, you could ask the same for Tarquini

[Icebaby]

Here what you say but Menu stands out for me as destroying maybe half a dozen Chevys in his time with the team which is not a good statistic or good for budgets.

[Sodemo]

The WTCC is a mess, and today's races were the very embodiment of it. Bad organisation, bad tracks, races that are too short. All these elements combined to serve up one huge **** sandwich today.

I mean, imagine if you had paid to go and watch that?

[skells22]

any news about pens for the next races at Monza

[JamesRamone]

Today was a total farce. The WTCC is slipping big time.

The standard of driving is a joke at times as well. Whilst Menu and Farfus may be quick, they are always getting involved in incidents.

It's a shame James Thompson is commentating because if he had a decent car then he would wipe the floor with most of them.

[stedevil]

Originally Posted by redshoes

The point was made during commentary that they did have cranes at the chicanes but the accidents actually happened on the straight after the chicanes so were out of reach.

What really surprises me is why pretty much everywhere in the world they insist on using these small trucks with ultra slow lifting mechanisms. No wonder it takes ages to clear away cars.

In Sweden you usually see a few of these next to the tracks
http://www.volvo.com/NR/rdonlyres/D5...ure_150F_3.jpg
just with a really big flat plate instead of a scoop. It drives in, scoops and/or winches the car up on the flat plate, tilts up the plate, and away it drives, in just a few minutes. Even on the Mickey Mouse circuits we have in Sweden there rarely are more than 2 laps of SC because of cars blocking the road.


In any case, people how like street tracks, please save this gem of a race weekend on media of your choice and rewatch twice per year for the next decade. Meanwhile, lets hope WTCC drops all these street tracks where passing is night impossible.

[gomick]

What is the crowd #'s like in Morocco - saw parts of race 1 & i must admit, its not the most exciting championship - need more manufacturers i think, though its great that seat, bmw & chevy have numerous cars entered...

[Andy77]

Originally Posted by stedevil

What really surprises me is why pretty much everywhere in the world they insist on using these small trucks with ultra slow lifting mechanisms. No wonder it takes ages to clear away cars.

In Sweden you usually see a few of these next to the tracks
http://www.volvo.com/NR/rdonlyres/D5...ure_150F_3.jpg
just with a really big flat plate instead of a scoop. It drives in, scoops and/or winches the car up on the flat plate, tilts up the plate, and away it drives, in just a few minutes. Even on the Mickey Mouse circuits we have in Sweden there rarely are more than 2 laps of SC because of cars blocking the road.


In any case, people how like street tracks, please save this gem of a race weekend on media of your choice and rewatch twice per year for the next decade. Meanwhile, lets hope WTCC drops all these street tracks where passing is night impossible.

Well, Marrakech is quite ok compared to Pau or the Porto street circuit. The layout, as well as well as the width of the road, reminded a bit to the old AVUS. It really isn't that bad but if it needs to be dropped I'd vote for a return of the Helsinki Thunder in exchange.

WTCC has no experienced safety car drivers and stewards for the call, have they? Last year the SC smashes into the leading BMW of Franz Engstler at Pau, this year they deploy somewhere into the middle of the field or re-open the race in the last lap from last turn to finish line again. The chaos around removing the wrecks just added there. I would have preferred red flags instead of odd safety car periods. It is still a rather new venue and is about the only international race circuit in north africa so it needs a lot but mainly time to develop the event further.

Call for penalties?
I don't recall one incident that would need to be punished really. Surely you can debate the Farfus - Menu incident but it was a normal one ending up in some sort of pendulum effect. Menu doesn't have to try outside above a chicane, clearly away from the circuit and Farfus doesn't need to nick to the outside into Menu. In the end none of both gave away the opportunity which makes it hardly more than a common race incident.

As long as it was green the racing wasn't too bad, just a bit odd that Huffy had to defend to Barth once Tarquinis tires got to grip in race 1. That said, Huffy's catch after the hit from Barth gets my vote for the inofficial "Catch of the day"-award.
The mass carambolage at the start of 2nd heat was caused by Huffy's wreckage, when O'Young tried to get around the wreck but Hernandez was already on his left side so O'Young drove into Hernandez and Hernandez himself took out another one on his way into the right wall.

[blueoval2]

I really think the WTCC days are numbered yesterday was a joke,the clear ups from accidents took to long,the safety car driver thought he was in the race.
Looks like its the last year for BMW just call it the Seat cup!!

[redshoes]

Originally Posted by Andy77

WTCC has no experienced safety car drivers and stewards for the call, have they?

After Pau they hired a permanent safety car driver. Missing the leader was down to a late call by the Clerk of the Course rather than the SC driver's mistake. The SC driver can only go when the CoC tells hell - we saw at Pau last year what happens when the SC driver goes when he's not told to.

WTCC has a permanent Race Director. It's a new one this year, don't know what his prior experience is.

[FIRE]

Originally Posted by redshoes

WTCC has a permanent Race Director. It's a new one this year, don't know what his prior experience is.

SC driver at Pau?

[skells22]

i was thinking of the Menu, Farfus crash on race 2 that brought out sc2. the FIA at the time of the crash was about to see who fault it was. that why i asked about pens

[stedevil]

Originally Posted by Andy77

Call for penalties?
I don't recall one incident that would need to be punished really. Surely you can debate the Farfus - Menu incident but it was a normal one ending up in some sort of pendulum effect. Menu doesn't have to try outside above a chicane, clearly away from the circuit and Farfus doesn't need to nick to the outside into Menu. In the end none of both gave away the opportunity which makes it hardly more than a common race incident.

Since the only reason Menu was even next to Farfus was because he cut straight across 1 of the chicanes which (if stewards are not sleeping) should force him to yield back the spot to Farfus anyway. Thus I would put the main blame on Menu. Of course Farfus pigheadedness didnt exactly help. The sad part is that if you don't cut a chicane, no way will you pass someone unless they make a big mistake, which is why tracks like Marrakesh sucks so much.

[Andy77]

Originally Posted by FIRE

SC driver at Pau?

[FIRE]

FIA World Touring Car Championship boss Marcello Lotti has told renowned racing magazine Autosport that Alfa Romeo, Ford, Honda and Toyota are evaluating to enter the series within the next two years.
"There are five members of the Toyota board coming to Monza to look at WTCC - the result of a meeting with them we had in December," said Lotti to Autosport.
...

http://www.touringcartimes.com/article.php?id=4746

I hope for Lotti the WTCC didn't get any coverage in Japan last week.

[awrb]

I just don't quite believe that, Lotti must be making it up. I'm a big motorsport fan, but if I was in charge of a car brand I would not promote it through the WTCC. Or at least not unless a major overhaul of the series was undertaken; I mean organisation, management, regulations (which is happening), coverage...

This series needs a lot of work on it if it is going to succeed

[touring fan01]

Every year Lotti promises there are more manufacturers interested but it never happens.

[Sodemo]

The coverage is indeed rubbish. That would be my primary concern if I were the head of a car company, that and the bonkers rules.

I think the BTCC has done something right in the way it has organised its championship this year. We had gas turbo, petrol turbo, petrol, S2000 and BTC entrants all enjoying a relatively level performance.

[stedevil]

Originally Posted by touring fan01

Every year Lotti promises there are more manufacturers interested but it never happens.

But there is a clear difference this year... cars can be used in both WRC and WTCC. In that context "Alfa Romeo, Ford, Honda and Toyota" sounds very reasonable to me.