[BTCC] Silverstone, Rounds 19, 20, 21

[Craner Curves]

It reminded me of a DTM race at Hockenheim a few years back, when they were all using the runoff outside turn 1, even if it meant going across the grass to get to it!

I'd say slap penalties on all the persistant offenders, but they won't do that will they, because they'll confuse Mr Max Power and his mates who've turned up or are watching on TV. Why do you think we have no pitstops anymore.

[kristof14]

It just needs some of the super grippy surface they have in the run off areas Paul Ricard. The first patch reached is designed to grip and slow the car (causing flat spots) then beyond that is a super grippy surface that will bring you to a dead stop but at the cost of flat tyres. Doesn't mean that an overzealous move that causes you to go off means you're out the race but will prevent people using the line!

[touring fan01]

Originally Posted by Craner Curves

I'd say slap penalties on all the persistant offenders, but they won't do that will they, because they'll confuse Mr Max Power and his mates who've turned up or are watching on TV.

"I'd say" you should get your facts right before you make silly statements like that.

6 of the touring car drivers got penalties for being "persistant offenders". 4 got two penalty points slapped on their licences and the two worst got drive through penalties during the last race! In fact I think the touring car drivers got penalised more and harsher than the drivers in the other races!

[Craner Curves]

In that case I take it back. It's a shame we are not privy to the decisions made by the stewards, unlike the superb service on the WTCC website where everything is made public for our viewing.

[dyewat808]

That tarmac run-off really does need to be changed, otherwise the drivers will go as wide as they can (Matt Neal was going right up to the wall in some cases, if I remember rightly, and he was gaining an advantage).

Like everyone's already said, change it back to gravel.

[redshoes]

Sadly having the gravel back isn't an option, it was changed at the insistance of F1 so short of tarmacing over for one weekend of the year we are stuck with it. I believe their logic was that tarmac was safer as an F1 car running wide at speed was more likely to dig into the gravel and flip over.

[Sodemo]

Yep, as with all other F1 tracks, they need to ruin the circuit to appease the regulators for one weekend of the year, then the rest of the lower formulae have to like it or lump it.

[davyboy]

Rules enforcement was at its worst this weekend.

The televised Ginetta race was utterly appalling. As others have already said, the guy who drove people onto the grass down the front straight needs to be severely punished - Andy Neate nearly died there a few years back and this guy's malicious behaviour could have led to serious injury or even worse. Many of these drivers come from karting and I have not seen behaviour as bad as that in karts, so I can only assume they're leaning on the weak regulation enforcement on the BTCC weekends.

In terms of the run-off area at Copse, its very simple... if that's not part of the track, then properly punish those who traverse it e.g. a drive through penalty for everyone who does it. They seem to have no problem with DQing those with ride height issues. The inconsistency is pretty poor.

[sceptic]

Originally Posted by davyboy

Rules enforcement was at its worst this weekend.

The televised Ginetta race was utterly appalling. As others have already said, the guy who drove people onto the grass down the front straight needs to be severely punished

He has been.

Many of these drivers come from karting and I have not seen behaviour as bad as that in karts, so I can only assume they're leaning on the weak regulation enforcement on the BTCC weekends.

You obviously don't watch that much karting, because some of the driving standards are terrible. Every time I go to a meeting I see drivers deliberately driving competitors off the road.

In terms of the run-off area at Copse, its very simple... if that's not part of the track, then properly punish those who traverse it e.g. a drive through penalty for everyone who does it. They seem to have no problem with DQing those with ride height issues. The inconsistency is pretty poor.

Penalties were given to drivers who "consistently" had four wheels over the white line, in accordance with the rules. Remember that the Clerk of the Course can only act on whatever information he is told by the marshals at that post, not simply from watching TV.

[Sodemo]

One of the reasons (not the only one) I stopped karting was that the kids that do it today are crazy. I took part in a college/university championship when I went back to uni as a mature student (at 25/26) and what I found was that people just didn't care, drove you off the track and were willing to be quite ruthless.

Racing room didn't even come into it.

[davyboy]

I've been racing MSA karts for 28 years and while standards have deteriorated over that period of time [mainly due to the introduction of bodywork], the kind of driving we saw on Sunday afternoon rarely goes unpunished.

[davyboy]

Originally Posted by sceptic

He has been.

What was his punishment ? Has he been referred to the MSA for a ban ?

[MaxxUK]

Originally Posted by touring fan01

6 of the touring car drivers got penalties for being "persistant offenders". 4 got two penalty points slapped on their licences and the two worst got drive through penalties during the last race! In fact I think the touring car drivers got penalised more and harsher than the drivers in the other races!

In almost all other area there are 'exacts' as to what is and isn't allowed, ride-heights, weights, wing widths etc. etc. yet they seem unable/unwilling to apply this to actually racing on the circuit as it is designed.

It's not simply a question of gaining an advantage by doing this but surely going off the race track should result in a 'disadvantage' to the driver. No if's, no but's.

I understand why these areas have been created but surely it is not beyond the wit of man to work out how better to police this and apply some sort of penalty, even if in retrospect .. and I dont mean a fine or points, thats ridiculous and has nothing 'to do' with the racing.

Is it just that these transgressions are not being spotted/reported? if there is a known problem area then surely a designated observer should be assigned?

I jjust thought it looked ridiculous and not a great advert for British Motorsport.

M.

[aland]

well matt james had a good piece in today's motorsport news about how the british gt guys got severly punished yet TOCA didnt but brit gt is run by BRSCC and TOCA is part of BARC

[touring fan01]

Originally Posted by aland

well matt james had a good piece in today's motorsport news about how the british gt guys got severly punished yet TOCA didnt but brit gt is run by BRSCC and TOCA is part of BARC

Well he got his facts wrong, which is very unusual for a journalist

(see my earlier post)

[davyboy]

Originally Posted by touring fan01

(see my earlier post)

Almost the entire Clio field had 4 wheels over the line on a consistent basis. I can't make out the time penalties they received from the race results nor your earlier post, maybe you could help us out ?

[aland]

Originally Posted by touring fan01

Well he got his facts wrong, which is very unusual for a journalist

(see my earlier post)

6 of them got penalised, what about the rest??? from my armchair I and probably my mate's golden labrador could see the cars going at least 10 feet beyong the white line. still they wont be doing that at knockhill, go 2 feet over the line you are in the kitty litter and at duffus you go wide there and spin then you go on your roof. 3 of our club racers did that on saturday

[touring fan01]

Originally Posted by davyboy

Almost the entire Clio field had 4 wheels over the line on a consistent basis. I can't make out the time penalties they received from the race results nor your earlier post, maybe you could help us out ?

With respect, if you read my post properly you will see I was talking about the BTCC not Clio's.

[terence]

I thoroughly dissagree with the driving standards we witnessed from ALL of this meetings Championships,the reason I mentioned it in the first place.I do wonder if Plato worked it out for himself that he would go four off at Copse on the last two laps before the flag though,perhaps he would explain that his tyres were going off? [Yeah,right!]

[Go_For_Pole]

Originally Posted by MaxxUK

I just thought it looked ridiculous and not a great advert for British Motorsport

You bet it wasn't, I have never before had "complete waste of time" on my head after watching a BTCC meeting. And it wasn't only the fact that nobody cared about driving off limit offences, it was a big, big list of things. That ridiculous Ford engine that destroys the racing, the untasteful and totally unnecessary team orders in Arena, the blatant lies in interviews, the dirty driving, the teams that effectively only have one driver (Plato's team mate can not attempt to pass him, Neal's team mate can not attempt to pass him, Chilton's... poor guy). People have been laughing with WTCC for years (and many times with good reason) but boy this year's BTCC is not far off. What a mess.

[touring fan01]

Your in Greece and you watched it all live?
Wow I didn't know they get live broadcast there.

[Tim Wilkinson]

Originally Posted by terence bower

I thoroughly dissagree with the driving standards we witnessed from ALL of this meetings Championships,the reason I mentioned it in the first place.I do wonder if Plato worked it out for himself that he would go four off at Copse on the last two laps before the flag though,perhaps he would explain that his tyres were going off? [Yeah,right!]

On one of the race commentaries I thought Harvey said that the BTCC drivers had all been briefed that they could go onto the run-off at Copse 4 times each race. I might have been mistaken, though.

[MaxxUK]

Originally Posted by Tim Wilkinson

On one of the race commentaries I thought Harvey said that the BTCC drivers had all been briefed that they could go onto the run-off at Copse 4 times each race. I might have been mistaken, though.

I thought he said 3 but yes, it was Tim Harvey. I read somewhere else which said that it was 3 times then they would get a black/white warning, 3 times more and they'd get a black.

M.

[Go_For_Pole]

Originally Posted by touring fan01

Your in Greece and you watched it all live?
Wow I didn't know they get live broadcast there.

we don't officially but you can download the races from torrent sites or you can find a stream or if you use a uk proxy you can access itv's player

[sceptic]

Originally Posted by aland

6 of them got penalised, what about the rest??? from my armchair I and probably my mate's golden labrador could see the cars going at least 10 feet beyong the white line.

It's not about what you can see on TV, or what the officials in race control see on TV. There is an observer at the Copse marshals post, who has to call race control and say "car 17 left the track and rejoined" each time it happens.

As mentioned above, any car which was reported three times was shown a black and white flag, and six times was given a drive through penalty.

Obviously this system is biased against drivers who aren't running closely with other drivers, but that's the rules.