Is this the end of V8SC?

[duke_toaster]

Originally Posted by bluesport

Well, we will just have to go back to group A......the wheel will have turned full circle. There's still plenty of fast cars out there to race, we don't have to have Falcons and commodores. Just look at the B12hr.

Touring car regulations of that age cannot be brought back as the base models change. It's like the "Bring back Supertouring" mob, it won't work as in Europe we don't like repmobiles, really.

Phase3, whilst you deride Super 2000 (I assume that's what you are talking about by smaller cars), it's working in Europe perfectly well. The Ford Focus Mk 2 is sold in Australia, and a Super 2000 version of the Mk 1 was built. There was a rumour that Arena motorsport would build a Mk 2 S2K car to run Tom Chilton, but that never happened. Also, the Volvo C30 has been made by Polestar in Sweden, but I don't think it's sold in Australia and it's certainly not badged as a Ford anywhere.

As for Holden, they have already developed the Lacetti (I believe you guys get it badged as a Holden Viva) and the Epica could be done, Opel Team Sweden have developed a Opel Astra and a Vectra has been developed by Triple 8 - yes, I know they run Fords in V8 Supercars but they run the Vauxhall entry in the BTCC and have done for some time. Before you ask, I do think it's silly that GM are developing THREE factory Super 2000 cars, one for the WTCC, one for Sweden and one for the UK but then again supposedly OTS don't get on well with 888.

As well as this, tonnes of other cars have been S2000ed. Honda Civic, Honda Accord, SEAT Leon (petrol and diesel), BMW 320si (and a 320d might be introduced part way through this year), Alfas, BMW 120d, Audi A4, Volvo C30 and probably some I forgot. Add to that plenty of models that could be developed.

Will the Australian general public like it? The jury's out on that one. I'm not sure if it's the replacement of your rumbling V8s with our screaming cos it's tuned to within half an inch of it's life two litre four-pots or the introduction of a wide variety of foriegn cars. We know what happened when Toyota joined NASCAR, that might wind up happening ...

[SSbaby]

Originally Posted by Phase3

I like the look of the new Falcon, but like the majority of posters here, I'm biased. As the News article said though, the days of big Aussie cars are passing, the question is weather the Australian public will embrace a racing series comprising of European Fords V's Holden's rebadged Daewoo's?

I, for one, won't be buying (or supporting) anything Holden unless it's got the fabled GM V8 under the bonnet. Motor racing is about passion, emotion and sound... all of the things you can associate with the V8.

I'd sooner buy a Corolla than an Astra - if only for the reason that I won't be having to change timing belts every 60K (120K min for Corolla)! For me, small cars are about as emotive as shopping trolleys - nothing exciting here.

[WebberForWDC]

Originally Posted by Phase3

I like the look of the new Falcon, but like the majority of posters here, I'm biased. As the News article said though, the days of big Aussie cars are passing, the question is weather the Australian public will embrace a racing series comprising of European Fords V's Holden's rebadged Daewoo's?

Racing is racing, whether a crowd of 20,000 or 100,000, there are still some punters at the track right ?

So the Lacetti is a bloody quick tourer in fact with all the development dollars poured at it, showing that Alfa's 'sporting' credentials are rubbish as they are beaten by another front driver that's supposedly a very unsporty reasonably priced car with supposedly inferior inherent dynamics. And a series backed by Holden, Ford, and importers like Ralliart, Alfa and Honda would offer a great spectacle with it's grid of 15-20 hard charging tourers not afraid to push each other off the track in their nimble machines.

[Rombles1]

Originally Posted by WebberForWDC

Racing is racing, whether a crowd of 20,000 or 100,000, there are still some punters at the track right ?

So the Lacetti is a bloody quick tourer in fact with all the development dollars poured at it, showing that Alfa's 'sporting' credentials are rubbish as they are beaten by another front driver that's supposedly a very unsporty reasonably priced car with supposedly inferior inherent dynamics. And a series backed by Holden, Ford, and importers like Ralliart, Alfa and Honda would offer a great spectacle with it's grid of 15-20 hard charging tourers not afraid to push each other off the track in their nimble machines.

Sounds great.

That might be a good time to drag my knuckles back to the footy.

[duke_toaster]

Rombles, have you ever watched a WTCC/BTCC/STCC/Any other S2000 series race?

[Matt]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=keg6sCKbwHE

Here's an S2000 video.

I don't think V8's will die, just so you know.

[racer69]

V8Supercar racing may die, but touring car racing in Australia will live on (and probably prosper, depending on your point of view)

If Ford start importing their big RWD cars it will require a rule change to keep them in, which would also remove an obstacle (the 'must be built here' rule) and create the tantalising prospect of the likes of BMW, Audi etc (who produce big engined rear drivers) from competing.

Originally Posted by duke_toaster

Will the Australian general public like it? The jury's out on that one.

The jury is still out to an extent, as a small bore class of car has never been our premier national touring car formula featuring the big teams and drivers as the main draw.

However to the masses a pack of small engined FWD cars would be a huge letdown for the general public when compared to the big capacity (excluding the early championship winning Jags & Cortina's of course) cars which have dominated our championship since it began in 1960.

I like watching all motorsport (haven't missed a BTCC or ETCC/WTCC race in years), but our touring car formula needs to reflect what the main local manufacturers want to race & promote, and at the moment that is big cars.

[duke_toaster]

Originally Posted by racer69

<snip>

Whilst Ford and GM do want to flog their large cars, demand for them is going down - IIRC the top selling car to private buyers last year in Australia was the Honda Civic, across Europe it's the GM Brand of Choice Astra and some of the other more popular cars are small hatchbacks.

I don't see people rushing out to buy Clios or Fiestas to any great extent in Australia or the makes flogging them heavily, but worldwide trends are pointing towards smaller cars. At some point Ford and GM will realise that promoting Betamax repair kits will be a bad idea soon.

[FPV GTHO]

Half of this thread reads like a Drive blog.

Is this the end of V8SC? I dont care. Is the end near for the Falcon? Maybe, but i'd like to think it isnt. 2011 Mustang should be on Fords GWRD platform and Falcon will follow within a few years. Someone mentioned FG Falcon shouldve been built on an existing platform. Well without going FWD, what platform? The midsized 2 door RWD platform under Mustang, or the anchient ladder frame platform under Crown Victoria? Theyre the only other 2 platforms Ford have running right now.

[n.kuiper]

the way i see it is ,if all else fails they can run nascar style cars -only better looking and ford or holden engines or in 5 years time the price of gas may have gone down or the might find a oil substitute so big cars might be back in favour

[Rombles1]

Bring on the Turbo Diesel V8 Commodore with Displacement-on-demand (is DOD compatible with TD? Hope so!).

Let Ford copy the idea with their subsequent model (quite possibly based on a global architecture - I see no reason why basing a car on something global has to mean the end of its manufacture locally - unless that has already been confirmed elsewhere).

Run them on Bio-Diesel, race them as V8 Supercars.

V8 Supercars thrive.

Large rear-wheel drive locally built cars thrive (hey, there is even a soon-to-be-vacant plant in the south of Adelaide that could be used to meet some of the extra demand).




OK, I'm a crackpot.

But I'd love to see it happen.



And yes, duke_toaster, I have watched BTCC. Phil Brannigan this week described it as being like "golf-cart racing". I hate golf. (and I was kidding about the Footy - I think)

[MRJUCY]

Originally Posted by agosling

Outdated pretty much says it, a car that looks like the current model and has an engine that goes back 40 years. Surely for $800m they could at least have found a nice V6 somewhere in Fords catalog.

The bore spacings are the same as the original Falcon but it is in no way the same engine.
They are changing to a V6 in 2010 but the current inline 6 is the segment leader in most areas. Being an inline or a V configuration makes no difference to the performance or sophistication of an engine it's just a packaging decision.

[WebberForWDC]

Originally Posted by Rombles1

And yes, duke_toaster, I have watched BTCC. Phil Brannigan this week described it as being like "golf-cart racing". I hate golf. (and I was kidding about the Footy - I think)

Since Americans a small portion of NASCAR fans also watch the horrendous 'Daytona' sportscars, or what-ever they are all called, (also very golf-cart like) then perhaps any class can do well with the big names behind the wheel?

[MPA]

They could alway stretch some Ford sheet metal over a Commodore shell, stick the Ford donk in, glue a blue oval on the grille and go racing.

That'll work.

[dsg]

Space frame chassis, standard floor pan suspension and running gear, drop in your engine of choice and then call it whatever you want. I would be happy watching slightly smaller and more nimble NASCAR type machines running around our circuits. I tend to follow a driver and team more than a marque so it may just be me.

I understand that even back in the heyday of the big bangers, history has shown that while Australians like to watch V8s race they bought 6s. I see no reason why they wouldn't continue to enjoy watching V8s but buy 4s or hybrids.

[J-C]

As a big fan of the V8s, I personally would hate to see it become another horrible S2000 demolition-derby "championship" like the BTCC which is full of ugly, underpowered FWD hatchbacks driven by amateurs. The fundamentals of big, noisy, powerful RWD saloons must be retained, they're a fundamental part of its appeal.

[Uncle Cranker]

Originally Posted by MPA

They could alway stretch some Ford sheet metal over a Commodore shell, stick the Ford donk in, glue a blue oval on the grille and go racing.

That'll work.

And MPA, the majority of the Sheep wouldn't care, just as long as there were new shirts and jackets available to buy every year......

[RotorFan]

Originally Posted by Rombles1

Phil Brannigan this week described it as being like "golf-cart racing"

Then he's a fool. Is he a motorsport fan or a V8 Supercars fan? Seems pretty narrow-minded.

[MPA]

Ford must continue to race in V8SC.....If only the General was racing we would have a Commodore Cup. And that would never work.....Even for the sheep.





My bad.......Commodore Cup. 1st event around here at Winton during the '94 Formula Ford Festival. And they said it would never last. Just a bunch of under powered sports sedans....


Rest easy folks, there's plenty of life left in our V8SC racing. They may have to tinker with the rules, but that aint something new.

[Just Do It!]

V8 Supercars....something I'm clearly passionate about.

The diesel trick won't work, but bio-fuel likely will. Might peeve those off who don't drink Diet Coke or Coke Zero etc, but that's all good.

I'm all for the concept of V8 Supercars continuing even if that isn't the "Win on Sunday, sell on Monday" in the purist guise. See, most people don't get the marketing prowess that a V8 Supercar offers, nor that the series offers.

Bio-fuel may be able to get flame-throwing exhaust emissions, but diesel? It's a pretty sick diesel that backfires or throws a flame out it's exhaust on a downshift.

In essence, V8 Supercars can continue to exist for a long time into the future, even if Ford and Holden cease to sell and market V8-engined cars in Australasia. The reason for this is that already we are seeing the likes of PCR giving Ford a polite "middle finger" as the "Ford Junior Driver Development Team" was offered a $15k panel deal in return for the Ford logo to appear on the top of the windscreen....a mockery of why Ford got involved with PCR when they stepped up to V8 Supercars really.

And people never realised at the time how ahead of his time Craig Gore really was? Crazy really, with some hindsight.

The marketing prowess now lies not directly in mega-bucks from Ford and Holden, and (sadly perhaps) both manufacturers have woken up to the fact. Fact is, V8 Supercars are an entertainment platform for the public, and they perceive a Ford vs Holden rivalry - put your die-hard opinion aside and look at this from a Joe Casual perspective. People continue to turn up to see Ford or Holden supremacy, and Lowndes vs Skaife et al.

Fact of it all is that V8 Supercars can sustainably exist with a little re-think from TEGA and V8SA (75% owned by TEGA, of course ) and it can grow.

Where people lose their perspective is when they go to 2 or 3 domestic rounds per year, and then whinge and moan when the series moves off-shore. This is irony in itself.

Disclaimer: I'm going to at least 4 rounds of V8 Supercars this season and I only have one round held in my home country

[Pro Racer]

here here JDI. LPG is cheap and a good alternative (my car runs it it's not only Taxi's with it) although while not sure think LPG powered V8's would chuck a flame but i for one might only notice a couple of flames a race i'm to busy watching other parts of the race then the exhaust on the cars, the Sprint Gas involvement through Tasman is kind of a show of this. Ethanol is now avalible as a 10% blend at a fair few servo's it's a good option if your engine is suitable, which a Supercar engine is custom built so could be built to suite most blends and types of fuel.

[EGG]

S2000 also works in Europe because half the crowd have driven to the track in a 1.6L hatch and are thinking "geez, 2.0L of injected fury!". Don't laugh, I've flicked through the 'what do you drive' thread that hangs around one of these forums. It's a bit like girls basketall; "can't dunk but good fundamentals".

[rdmdog]

Remember the V8 ute thing was going to be a LPG Supercar two door in the beginning......

(as it happens what happened to the GRM Ute???)

It was the end of the world when Shell dropped out, things have really gone down hill since, Oh, wait, no, not really.

Manufacturer drop out would only bring the front few teams back to the rest. Or alternatively, make them work as hard as the "Owner Operators" in V8s do for the sponsorship dollar.

End of the Falcon would mean more than the end of Ford cash, but really they survived the AU (And for that matter EA) Sh!t boxes, they should be OK now don't you think......?

What other cars are we going to see in taxi ranks?