Head: JPM's not championship material yet

[the_extreme]

Have to agree with Speed - give him a WDC car and he's there - as long as its not a Ferrari with TGF as the primary

"Ummmm we're sorry Juan we know that your quicker than TGF every lap but you still can't overtake him - it's not in your contract"

Jeff

[Gt_R]

What Head now has to worry is indeed the car. The Williams is just not as good as the Ferrari. Given the right equipment, JPM and Ralf will be able to contend and fight with MS/RB.In TheGreatJuan-speak , JPM needs a car that "even Yoong would" win with.

Honestly, Head is correct to state that JPM is currently not yet the perfect material to win WDCs. His talent and speed is undeniable. True, there are loads of areas where JPM can improve upon, and judging by his intelligence, he will mature. Even the rarest diamonds need some work before it shines at its best.

Its not a question of if, but a question of when, JPM will finally step right up to the top.



P.S:I'm okay with the way this thread is started because it is not based on self opinions, but rather, is based on a quote from "high authority", which makes it credible to discuss...as long as everyone keeps their head

[JOSEPH SARANDOS]

Originally posted by Sato san
The great 5 times WDC didnt win it til 94 , yet he started his F1 career with Jordan in 1991 !

MS only had 6 or so races in 1991, so he became WDC in his 3rd full year. A year in which he turned 25 years of age.

Montoya turns 28 next year, he has had a year as an F1 tester, 2 years in CART, 2 years in F1 and still his boss doesn't see him as WDC material yet.

Quite a difference I am sure you will agree.

[Speed]

Originally posted by JOSEPH SARANDOS
he has had a year as an F1 tester, 2 years in CART, 2 years in F1 and still his boss doesn't see him as WDC material yet.

The car he tested was a different specs car as these days' Williams. CART & F1 is like apples and oranges. And he had 2 years with a well known "not-a-WDC" car, besides that he got 3rd. on his second year (best of the non-Ferraris). So, how could you compare those MS' previous years with JPM's ? Two different stories...

[JOSEPH SARANDOS]

Originally posted by Speed
The car he tested was a different specs car as these days' Williams. CART & F1 is like apples and oranges. And he had 2 years with a well known "not-a-WDC" car, besides that he got 3rd. on his second year (best of the non-Ferraris). So, how could you compare those MS' previous years with JPM's ? Two different stories...

Nonsense, absolute nonsense.

The stories are remarkably comparable and JPM does not come out of that comparison very well at all.

The year he tested was the first year of narrow track, grooved tyres, so it is relevant experience.

The Cart years give him more experience dealing with 800hp cars, something for instance an inexperienced Kimi Raikkonen from Formula Renault never had.

JPM's first full two years in the sport were with cars more competitive than the 1992 and 1993 Benetton.

So clearly if JPM is not considered WDC material at the moment by his employers, he has not performed to expectation.

[Peter Mallett]

Originally posted by JOSEPH SARANDOS

So clearly if JPM is not considered WDC material at the moment by his employers, he has not performed to expectation.

Umm. No I'm going to resist.

Bugger!

I've responded again!!!

[Red]

Originally posted by Speed
So, how could you compare those MS' previous years with JPM's ? Two different stories...

It's easy to compare. As easier as the comparison between the BMWilliams from last year and the Benettons from the early '90's. Besides, Schumacher M had almost no experience in driving openwheelers, prior his Jordan test.

Anyway, since the CART experience is peanuts it's even more dificult to understand the hype that surrounded JPM before he even set an official timed lap. :confused:

[Adam43]

Originally posted by Red
Besides, Schumacher M had almost no experience in driving openwheelers, prior his Jordan test.

He had as much as most people who drive an F1 car for the first time.

Anyway. I think Patrick is right, but you have to read what context it is in. Patrick obviously thinks Montoya is top draw and has said so many times in the past. However he also can put Montoya's present position in context. And understands that not eveything in F1 is black or white (red or white? ).

Here is the quote that the smaller version came from

Head said: "I think Juan has enormous talent. I think he's got quite a way
to go to be at a level where he could win a championship.
"I'm sure we'll be having some friendly and open talks over the winter with
him, because Juan has immense talent and I think it would be very sad if it
got wasted.
"But, unless he can apply his very good level of intellect appropriately, he
won't achieve the results that I think he should do and is capable of."

Courtesy of the PA.

Pretty fair for a driver who is clearly good, but is only just competed his second year.

[Peter Mallett]

I for one fully expect JPM to prove all the doubters wrong this year and that's why Patrick has said this to spur him on.

OK nursey, I'm ready for my medicine now.

[z2252314]

I for one fully expect JPM to prove all the doubters wrong this year

This line is becoming like DC's " This is my year". We hear it at the beginning of each year, but it always fails to eventuate.

[Mr V]

Originally posted by z2252314
This line is becoming like DC's " This is my year". We hear it at the beginning of each year, but it always fails to eventuate.

Don't recall JPM ever saying this? And i certainly haven't heard any of his fans saying it either. Ya talking out of your backside.

[Sato san]

I really dont see what JPM has done wrong here ......ok , at a few races he has lost his way abit ...ie Monza last year , but then who hasnt ???? ..everyone makes mistakes at some point dont they....Lets be honest Juan has bucket loads of talent , he's brave also , and he hasnt ever had a car capable of winning the WDC yet ..so whats the problem ?

so JOSEPH SARANDOS......what do you say to that then ?

[Peter Mallett]

Originally posted by mr v
Don't recall JPM ever saying this? And i certainly haven't heard any of his fans saying it either. Ya talking out of your backside.

Y'see what I mean about quotes being used out of context to suit an argument?

[Shinners]

Well said Sato..... I couldnt have said it better myself

[JOSEPH SARANDOS]

Originally posted by Sato san
I really dont see what JPM has done wrong here ......ok , at a few races he has lost his way abit ...ie Monza last year , but then who hasnt ???? ..everyone makes mistakes at some point dont they....Lets be honest Juan has bucket loads of talent , he's brave also , and he hasnt ever had a car capable of winning the WDC yet ..so whats the problem ?

so JOSEPH SARANDOS......what do you say to that then ?

I am saying that it should be very concerning to JPM fans that his own employer(s) is slagging him off in public.

I am also beginning to wonder if he is not as good as I originally thought, or Ralf and Michael are even better than I thought they were.

I think Montoya is better than Ralf, but the gap appears smaller than I had first imagined.

The issue here is that his own employer is far from convinced that even if JPM had a car that could win a WDC, that JPM is complete enough to capitalise on it.

[JOSEPH SARANDOS]

Originally posted by Shinners
Well said Sato..... I couldnt have said it better myself

LOL!!!!!

What did Sato actually say of any particular substance?:confused:

[Sato san]

all of it i thought !........

Joseph .........Patrick hasnt " slagged him off in public ".......come on , he's geeing him up abit thats all , .thyey use to do it to Mansell all the time ...Its Williams way ..........look , if Juan had beeen given a champioship winning car , and he had lost the plot , then i'd agree with you , but you are talking as if he's been around for ages and never acheived nothing , which lets be totally honest just isnt the case .

[Damon]

Originally posted by JOSEPH SARANDOS
I am saying that it should be very concerning to JPM fans that his own employer(s) is slagging him off in public.

Patrick Head is a clever man and he knows JPM is one of those drivers with an 'I'll show him' attitude. By knocking JPM in public he is giving his driver just cause to prove him wrong. If he tried doing that to Ralf he'd totally finish off his already shattered ego.

[JOSEPH SARANDOS]

Whilst I am sure there is an element of 'geeing up' in Head's statement, I think you are wrong to suggest that is all it is.

Head is clearly disappointed with JPM's progress as an F1 driver. Head realises that JPM cannot hope to beat Michael Schumacher for the WDC, if JPM is gonna lose the plot on 4 out of 17 race weekends.

[Sato san]

thats right Damon........he's just geeing him up abit , he's not given him a full blown slagging !.........and to be honest , i do agree there are a few area' s where he needsa to improve ...but most drivers fit in to that brackett anyway.......

[JOSEPH SARANDOS]

Originally posted by Damon
Patrick Head is a clever man and he knows JPM is one of those drivers with an 'I'll show him' attitude. By knocking JPM in public he is giving his driver just cause to prove him wrong. If he tried doing that to Ralf he'd totally finish off his already shattered ego.

I think you are only half right in respect of Head's comments on JPM, and totally right in respect of Ralf. LOL!!!

Patrick Head, unlike Frank Williams, does not have a poker face, and it was very clear on a couple of occasions last year, that he was very, very angry with some of JPM's efforts.

[Damon]

He was also clearly very, very happy with some of JPM's efforts this year well. For every off as a result of pushing a bit too hard there's a couple of poles and an awsome overtake to make up for it.

[Warrior21]

When Head gives JPM a car capable of winning the championship he can talk!Until then it is a team effort and unfortunely JPM can make up the difference in the car he is now driving.

[Adam43]

FWIW IMHO , this is far from 'slagging off in public'. It is a reasonable point of view and Patrick has expressed it. I think we all know that there is a lot of respect for Montoya from all in the Williams team.

Brawn expressed the opinion that Rubens out drive Schumacher at some races last year. Does that mean he suddenly thinks Rubens is better than Michael? No, not at all.

This is not particularly about this thread, but it is interesting how these quotes come up. On this forum these quotes are oft used to put down various people (or even build up others), but I feel that they should be used carefully otherwise the poster loses a little credibility. The superficial meaning is taken to an extreme and is very our of context (of even perhaps the rest of the same quote!) and the thread because a very black and white argument.

As I mention before, the quote, in it's entirety, that this thread is about is interesting. And it will be interesting to see how Montoya (and Williams) tap into this "immense talent" and "intellect". Will it succeed or will it be "wasted"?

[Don K]

Originally posted by mr v
Don't recall JPM ever saying this? And i certainly haven't heard any of his fans saying it either. Ya talking out of your backside.

On this forum we've seen lots of members saying during the last months of 2000, that JPM would be WDC in 2001.
And we've seen lots of members saying during the last months of 2001, that JPM would be WDC in 2002.

And even now we see some members saying that JPM does not have to keep improving this year, if he wants to be WDC in the near future ...