Team Williams: Do they have a spare tub? - Page 2

**Born Racer** · 9 Apr 2018, 14:13 (Ref:3814413)

These days it's so difficult to assign such contribution to individuals really, because teams are so much huger so the days of it being something like the one-man-created designs of the past have gone to some extent. Although the contradiction to that is that one or two people can still make big human contributions to the matrix that is ongoing computer-led and continuously improved cars. So maybe you're right about a galvanising leader or Adrian Newey-type being as relevant as ever.

chillibowl · 9 Apr 2018, 14:56 (Ref:3814427)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mekola

Very funny...
Athough I still respect them for the FW07...

i do as well.

that was a time when the only chance they had to upset to order was to swing for the fences, take a path that no one else was on, and hope that they could find a silver bullet with which to stop the rise of the manufacturers.

that it didnt work out (and maybe it was to big of a chance to have ever worked) isnt really a problem for me.

imo though, they dont take those chances any more. whether it be with drivers, race strategies, or design philosophies.

they are kind of a bland team now and that is really shows in their goals, aspirations, and now their results.

top down there is no inspiration left here.

peebee2 · 9 Apr 2018, 15:23 (Ref:3814430)

Quote:

Originally Posted by KineticEnergy

Paddy Lowe? I recall reading Frank Dernie describing PL as "probably the cleverest guy he ever hired."

You’re assuming that’s a definite compliment?

KineticEnergy · 10 Apr 2018, 11:12 (Ref:3814631)

Quote:

Originally Posted by peebee2

You’re assuming that’s a definite compliment?

I do know that Frank Dernie never really enjoyed being a manager type. Far too interested in getting the hands dirty. So maybe he hadn't hired that many over the years, largely leaving that to others to build them technical team around and beneath him.

Moneyseeker · 10 Apr 2018, 12:48 (Ref:3814646)

Rather worryingly, PL keeps saying they need to understand what has gone wrong and that it is nothing obvious, if it were they would have fixed it. Sounds like it might need a 'B spec car' could be on the horizon by the British GP or they face the real prospect of no points. They were still miles out of the points in Bahrain with 3 cars retiring ahead of them!

chillibowl · 10 Apr 2018, 14:11 (Ref:3814667)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moneyseeker

Sounds like it might need a 'B spec car' could be on the horizon by the British GP or they face the real prospect of no points. They were still miles out of the points in Bahrain with 3 cars retiring ahead of them!

B Spec car...no doubt they have already shifted development to 2019.

cynical joke aside, its still early season but even FI looks to having issues as well.

how much of their and Williams problems are down to the customer Merc engine?

BSchneiderFan · 10 Apr 2018, 14:45 (Ref:3814680)

As someone who has always respected Williams, it pains me to say this, but there is nothing inevitable about their recovering. Maybe they’re just gradually going the way of Tyrrell, Lotus or Brabham - a slip down the competitive order into oblivion.

wnut · 11 Apr 2018, 00:37 (Ref:3814766)

[QUOTE=chillibowl;3814667]B Spec car...no doubt they have already shifted development to 2019.

cynical joke aside, its still early season but even FI looks to having issues as well.

how much of their and Williams problems are down to the customer Merc engine?[/QUOTE]

I was wondering what was going on with the Merc customer engines too, they are meant to be identical specs and mapping to the works engines, yet they don't seem to perform nearly as well.

What is the FIA doing to police engine parity between works and customer spec engines?

If Merc are caught cheating on this one, given the $100 million dollar fine that McLaren were given, a billion dollars would seem to be in the ballpark.

wnut · 11 Apr 2018, 00:43 (Ref:3814769)

Quote:

Originally Posted by chillibowl

B Spec car...no doubt they have already shifted development to 2019.

cynical joke aside, its still early season but even FI looks to having issues as well.

how much of their and Williams problems are down to the customer Merc engine?

Massa was complaining last year that they were not updating the car!
Probably what lead to them getting rid of Massa.

Is the current car a real update from the 2017 car?

peebee2 · 11 Apr 2018, 05:35 (Ref:3814795)

Quote:

Originally Posted by wnut

I was wondering what was going on with the Merc customer engines too, they are meant to be identical specs and mapping to the works engines, yet they don't seem to perform nearly as well.

What is the FIA doing to police engine parity between works and customer spec engines

Engine and software may be physically identical as per the new rules but if it’s Merc power staff who are monitoring and responsible for the mapping and if they are only allowed certain maps....

Moneyseeker · 11 Apr 2018, 06:56 (Ref:3814803)

Gary Anderson seems to think it is chassis /aero not engine related particularly. And Williams have added more cooling, so if there are any engine performance issues, that might be temperature related.

Sent from my SM-T310 using Tapatalk

wnut · 11 Apr 2018, 08:14 (Ref:3814813)

Quote:

Originally Posted by peebee2

Engine and software may be physically identical as per the new rules but if it’s Merc power staff who are monitoring and responsible for the mapping and if they are only allowed certain maps....

I understood that the engine manufacturers had to make the identical maps they were using to the customers, the power unit and its software had to be identical in every way. i.e. The customers should have access to "party mode", and any other mode that is available to the works team.

Without the correct works maps the PU is pretty well useless.

peebee2 · 11 Apr 2018, 08:20 (Ref:3814814)

They have to make sure it is all there but the key is the staff have to activate, and the only people allowed to touch it are Merc staff as part of the supply contract, and they report to Merc not the host team.

Think - you don’t now, and have never seen a customer team finding 0.5s in Q. In fact it happened once and the person left his job shortly after

VIVA GT · 11 Apr 2018, 08:37 (Ref:3814816)

But surely the mapping cannot be the same for the customer teams? The works team uses specially (and uniquely) developed Petronas fuel, Williams use Petrobras fuel. The engines will have to be mapped specifically to the fuel, (some of) the power advantage could come from this.

cmifsud · 11 Apr 2018, 08:48 (Ref:3814818)

Williams use petronas

Mike E · 11 Apr 2018, 10:10 (Ref:3814835)

stroll
verb
to walk in a slow, relaxed manner, especially for pleasure

Not sure anyone is getting pleasure out of this. Except maybe Sauber.

F1Guy · 11 Apr 2018, 10:29 (Ref:3814840)

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmifsud

Williams use petronas

Correct. So does Force India. Exactly the same Petronas fuel and lubricants as the Mercedes AMG team.

Mike Harte · 11 Apr 2018, 11:00 (Ref:3814843)

Quote:

Originally Posted by F1Guy

Correct. So does Force India. Exactly the same Petronas fuel and lubricants as the Mercedes AMG team.

Although Force India and Williams both use Petronas Primax fuel alongside Mercedes, Force India changed to Ravenol lubricants at the start of this season.

Williams doesn't state which lubricant it uses, although I suspect that they also use Petronas.

peebee2 · 11 Apr 2018, 11:14 (Ref:3814848)

Just because you have a presser and some stickers that doesn’t always rule what is actually in the car and any bottles in the box...

Dixie Flatline · 14 Apr 2018, 03:58 (Ref:3815345)

Quote:

Originally Posted by peebee2

Not sure what else could have been expected.

They have drivers with close to zero set up ability at this level, and a questionable tech director leading.

It was pretty annoying listening to Anthony Davidson try to defend Williams' decisions to hire Stroll and Sirotkin during commentary of first practice yesterday.

E.B · 14 Apr 2018, 08:10 (Ref:3815375)

Interestingly only 0.8 seconds between Sirotkin and Lewis in Q1.

Skam85 · 16 Apr 2018, 00:11 (Ref:3815878)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dixie Flatline

It was pretty annoying listening to Anthony Davidson try to defend Williams' decisions to hire Stroll and Sirotkin during commentary of first practice yesterday.

Which was strange, Ant should know better than most that talent doesn't always mean opportunity.

Mekola · 24 Apr 2018, 07:46 (Ref:3817124)

For one and once, Williams must rebrand its engines "Bugatti".
Hope when VW definitively enter F1 they could do that.

littleman · 26 Apr 2018, 09:12 (Ref:3817475)

I would suggest Williams decided to cash-in on their name, brand image and fabulous F1 history some time ago.

Selling two drives to the highest bidders, combined with the income generated from the payments they receive as a "Special Status" F1 team, probably amounts to a considerable sum of money. Throw in a commercial sponsor like Martini and you've got yourself a nice little earner.

To keep costs down, they've probably built a "cheap but adequate" F1 car which is unlikely to get much in the way of up-dates across the season. Not a great strategy for the fans but I'm guessing it works for them......gives Frank's kids a good living I would imagine.

It's been a long time since Williams did anything of note on the race track so there must come a time when their "Special F1 Status" must surely lapse.

BSchneiderFan · 26 Apr 2018, 16:47 (Ref:3817527)

You do have to wonder whether Williams will continue to receive the heritage payments when the current Concorde Agreement lapses. Hard to make an argument for them.

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