IMSA DPi Discussion

[FormulaFox]

Originally Posted by Accident

You mean Action Express?

No. I mean Spirit of Daytona. They took over the project after it got to the point where they were the only ones running the chassis. Then Gen3 came along and because of Pratt & Miller's assistance in improving the chassis it for some reason became the preferred Corvette DP chassis(only two Corvette DPs didn't use Coyote chassis - and one of them has been rather infamously destroyed).

That said, though, it's TECHNICALLY more of a partnership, but all intents and purposes SoD owns and runs Coyote Cars at this point.

[carbon_titanium]

Originally Posted by FormulaFox

No. I mean Spirit of Daytona. They took over the project after it got to the point where they were the only ones running the chassis. Then Gen3 came along and because of Pratt & Miller's assistance in improving the chassis it for some reason became the preferred Corvette DP chassis(only two Corvette DPs didn't use Coyote chassis - and one of them has been rather infamously destroyed).

That said, though, it's TECHNICALLY more of a partnership, but all intents and purposes SoD owns and runs Coyote Cars at this point.

As far I know AXR owner, owns coyote too and SoD just owns one of their chassis since mid '2000 being their corvette DP mounted on their old DP2 tub. Anyway I don't think that P&M assisted coyote or anyone else like riley or dallara... the corvette DP "pack" is just a bodywork that can be fitted on all old DP2 chassis + GM engine.
Being just a bodywork and nothing more, you can watch at example that AXR and WTR, being "outside" the same car; have very different cockpit and tub structure. Corvette DP coyote chassis is the only version right handed

[CyberMotor]

DPi does not have a 'relevancy factor', only a cost-containment factor, it seems to me. This is a step backwards in automotive efficiency and connection to the real world of the automobile. I know some are elated by the omission but I think it is a bad decision. The technological components do not have to be as advanced as P1, but there should be some components proven in P1 used, albeit, with a lower cost into the P2 and DPi cars, IMO.

[Salamus]

Just to be clear here, will these manufacturer body panels fit onto all 4 chassis or just one that the manufacturer chooses? In Indycar, it is a lot more simple because there is only one chassis, Dallara. Here we have 4 which I assume will all look different.

What if an independent team wants to race in DPi using their own engine?

Looking at the WEC P2 field right now, it's just a bunch of Ligiers and Orecas with Nissan engines. So I think seeing 4 chassis (maybe more for IMSA), with manufacturer panels, and more than one engine supplier is a step in the right direction for IMSA.

[Speed-King]

Bodywork will be tied to one chassis...

So if Mazda commission a bodywork and put it on a Riley, that will be the only place where that can go.

Privateers can either buy complete cars (bodywork + engine) from manufacturers, should they sell those to customers, or run an off-the-shelf Euro-car with the spec engine and generic bodywork.

[mariantic]

Originally Posted by Speed-King

So if Mazda commission a bodywork and put it on a Riley, that will be the only place where that can go..

Is that the case though? Is there anything to stop Mazda going to Riley and say Onroak and commissioning 2 different body sets?

Quite a lot of questions like these have got me starting a site to get people asking and get some answers out.

http://mariantic.co.uk/lmp/DPI.asp

Just started it yesterday - about to add a Q&A section.

Mariantic

[FormulaFox]

Originally Posted by mariantic

Is that the case though? Is there anything to stop Mazda going to Riley and say Onroak and commissioning 2 different body sets?

Each manufacturer partners with ONE chassis builder.

[Speed-King]

Originally Posted by FormulaFox

Each manufacturer partners with ONE chassis builder.

I guess they could say after a year or two: Well, this hasn't worked out, let's try with someone else.

[mariantic]

Originally Posted by FormulaFox

Each manufacturer partners with ONE chassis builder.

What I'd really like to do on this exercise would be to get a link to a definitive statement on things like this.

Got one for this?

Mariantic

[fieldodreams79]

Originally Posted by mariantic

Mariantic

I know it's been awhile, but wanted to let you know that I'm very happy to see you back.

[carbon_titanium]

even if following the same regs, lmp2 tubs can be different each other, so if GM developes a bodywork for the dallara lmp2, maybe these parts won't fit the ligier lmp2 tub, or oreca just to make an example.
Anyway this is a blind spot to me, because mazda and HPD will simply fit an engine inside a "standard" lmp2.

[Accident]

Originally Posted by FormulaFox

No. I mean Spirit of Daytona. They took over the project after it got to the point where they were the only ones running the chassis. Then Gen3 came along and because of Pratt & Miller's assistance in improving the chassis it for some reason became the preferred Corvette DP chassis(only two Corvette DPs didn't use Coyote chassis - and one of them has been rather infamously destroyed).

That said, though, it's TECHNICALLY more of a partnership, but all intents and purposes SoD owns and runs Coyote Cars at this point.

Bob Nelson is the owner of Coyote Cars and Action Express Racing, and Gary Nelson is the CEO of Coyote Cars and team manager for Action Express.

Spirit of Daytona were the only ones running the Coyote for a while, but I'm not sure who was in charge of building the chassis/parts at that point. Was it still Cheever?

It has been said several times that Action Express and Coyote are the same group.

Originally Posted by carbon_titanium

As far I know AXR owner, owns coyote too and SoD just owns one of their chassis since mid '2000 being their corvette DP mounted on their old DP2 tub. Anyway I don't think that P&M assisted coyote or anyone else like riley or dallara... the corvette DP "pack" is just a bodywork that can be fitted on all old DP2 chassis + GM engine.
Being just a bodywork and nothing more, you can watch at example that AXR and WTR, being "outside" the same car; have very different cockpit and tub structure. Corvette DP coyote chassis is the only version right handed

No, there was some mention about P&M helping develop the Coyote, specifically after Spirit of Daytona switched back to Chevy power from the Cayenne V8.

I have no clue when it started or how long it lasted though, but I do remember them talking about it during several broadcasts during 2011 about how there were some P&M guys in the Spirit of Daytona pits, and I remember them showing Mr. Pratt with the team in the pits at least once.

[carbsmith]

For whatever reason SoD seemed to be the factory favoured Corvette DP team for a little while (including factory drivers), but it's pretty clearly WTR at this point.

Coyote Cars and Action Express Racing have the same office in Daytona. Coyote and AXR's shops are across the street in Denver, North Carolina (Crawford Composites is next door, as I recall). Spirit of Daytona is just down the street in Daytona at the same address as Ben Kennedy's (Bill France Jr's grandson's) NASCAR K&N Pro Series Team had. It's all France family.

Fabcar was originally in Indianapolis and I assume it stayed there when Cheever renamed it Coyote and moved to North Carolina when the NASCAR mafia took it over.

[CyberMotor]

With all the discussion about the future, hoping it will include technology of the future. Not seeing that in the discussions, yet.

Hey, Don, speak up! In the spirit of Sparky.

[joeb]

Originally Posted by Dyson Mazda

I would love to see Panoz return to GT racing: http://autoweek.com/article/car-news...-1-only-890000

That picture made me remember that Panoz is selling that car again for street usage. So, in theory they could make the old GT1 into a race car again if they sell enough!

[Dyson Mazda]

Originally Posted by joeb

That picture made me remember that Panoz is selling that car again for street usage. So, in theory they could make the old GT1 into a race car again if they sell enough!

Or if Panoz just really want to race it. IMSA will give the Don a ton of flexibility to run whatever he wants.

[joeb]

Originally Posted by Dyson Mazda

Or if Panoz just really want to race it. IMSA will give the Don a ton of flexibility to run whatever he wants.

Wouldn't that be great to see that car running again? But you are right, the Don will be accommodated, just don't know what he wants to do. Is he done racing? Will the DW road car/gt make it? Will Panoz make a DPi body? Just don't know at this point.

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by CyberMotor

With all the discussion about the future, hoping it will include technology of the future. Not seeing that in the discussions, yet.

Hey, Don, speak up! In the spirit of Sparky.

And how many times does it have to be said that P-1 (technology and it's associated costs) are NOT on the table? It is a cost capped class on BOTH sides of the Pond.







L.P.

[Rcz]

Maybe Coyote can partner up with Crawford and makes some customer based DPis with create Chevy engines, as a alternative to Gibson or a Factory engines.

We need little teams too

I don't think Gibsons has the output or the logistics to serve customers here in the States, and the current 5.5L Chevy engines from the old DPs is still pretty damn good engine.

If Don Panoz run in the DPi class, it's just gotta be a roadster.

[BullMan]

Originally Posted by Rcz

Maybe Coyote can partner up with Crawford and makes some customer based DPis with create Chevy engines, as a alternative to Gibson or a Factory engines.

We need little teams too

Not going to happen, as they aren't one of the four chassis manufacturers able to build an ACO or IMSA P2.

I don't think Gibsons has the output or the logistics to serve customers here in the States, and the current 5.5L Chevy engines from the old DPs is still pretty damn good engine.

Until very recently, Oreca and OnRoak were in no position to support cars in North America.

If Don Panoz run in the DPi class, it's just gotta be a roadster.

Regs say the car has to be closed top. Open top cars are done.

[FormulaFox]

Originally Posted by mariantic

What I'd really like to do on this exercise would be to get a link to a definitive statement on things like this.

Got one for this?

Mariantic

Not that I am allowed to name. But the teams and manufacturers have been expressly told that will be the way things are.

[MagVanisher]

Originally Posted by BullMan

Not going to happen, as they aren't one of the four chassis manufacturers able to build an ACO or IMSA P2.

In regards to Coyote, they could just make bodykits for those four chassis manufacturers. Heck, they could supply crate Chevrolet engines for smaller teams.

[BrentJackson]

Originally Posted by HORNDAWG

And how many times does it have to be said that P-1 (technology and it's associated costs) are NOT on the table? It is a cost capped class on BOTH sides of the Pond.

L.P.

True, but since the Panoz GTR-1 isn't really any more complicated in design and technology than the new Ford GT or Ferrari 488 GTE, I could see Panoz claiming that and running GTLM. Mind you, what the manufacturers would think of that is another matter....

[NaBUru38]

Originally Posted by joeb

Depending on the source we have 4-8 manufacturers evaluating a DPi program. Will they all make it to the grid next year? Who knows.

Possible DPi's
Cadillac-GM
Mazda
Acura-HPD

Nissan
BMW
Lexus-TRD
Lambo/Bentley - some VAG brand

I'm doubtful of the bottom four.

Nissan failed the LMP1 project, so who knows.

[wdave0]

Originally Posted by FormulaFox

Not that I am allowed to name. But the teams and manufacturers have been expressly told that will be the way things are.

So far whenever the new IMSA says something is set in stone it only means until it falls out. One might charitably call them "flexible". The proof will be on the track next year.