07 AMRS-3 Winton (28-29th April)

[PVDA]

Seen on Saturday at the Winton AMRS.





For those who haven't seen Series 9 of Top Gear yet (due on SBS sometime next year) it will make sense once it's put to air.

[Aquarius]

I believe this Stig has about as much personality as the pommy version

[SamDale]

Originally Posted by noaxetogrind

Hey silver, 30 on the intermarque entry list including an Aston, a couple of Nissan GTRs but only 14 in practice with no Aston or Nissan.

I was the one who stated 30 entries for Intermarque, and I apologise as it was an incorrect number (posted before numbers were finalised as it was the best info I had at the time I posted). I understand the Aston Martin didn't clear Customs in time to make it to the event - disappointing, but the racing was still fantastic.

Excellent racing across the board, and the rain certainly made things interesting...

It was also good to put faces to a few names from this forum.

Originally Posted by D.R.T.

I am a fan of the AMRS and F 3000 V6/ Oz Boss but you are quick to compare this two F3.

As you say I don't think there's really any point comparing the two categories, as they have quite different philosophies. Oz BOSS is about having an affordable platform to race very quick cars. They are amazing cars, and when looked after correctly, surprisingly affordable to maintain. They're awesome to drive, and difficult to drive quickly.

It was great to see the Oz BOSS numbers building at Winton, and great to see a diverse field. I was caught up in a great battle in the second race, and despite being forced to watch it from a flag point for the second half of the race (due to a broken throttle cable), really enjoyed it - definitely worth watching on Speedweek in a couple of weeks time...

[Rachel Richards]

Originally Posted by Aquarius

I believe this Stig has about as much personality as the pommy version

Until this one takes his helmet off, then you can't shut him up..... (allegedly)


Did you notice the 'fat stig's' shoes, obviously he & Tim Schenken go to the same cobbler.....



Or has this thread become a load of old cobblers

[Trevor]

Originally Posted by SamDale

It was also good to put faces to a few names from this forum.

Yes, it was good to meet you, albeit a bit late in the day

Originally Posted by SamDale

It was great to see the Oz BOSS numbers building at Winton, and great to see a diverse field. I was caught up in a great battle in the second race, and despite being forced to watch it from a flag point for the second half of the race (due to a broken throttle cable), really enjoyed it - definitely worth watching on Speedweek in a couple of weeks time...

The whole event was fantastic, all categories put on a great show and some very good midfield racing in some events. It was a bit disapointing for the Lotus, but I am sure all will be fixed in a short time and things will improve.

[noaxetogrind]

Good to hear that the whole event was fantastic.

For the avoidance of doubt, can I just say that my previous post was in no way having a go at the AMRS. I fully understand that there are reasons why cars/drivers do not turn up at meetings they have entered. It happens all the time in all categories because for most people involved it is a past-time and other things will end up taking priority such as family or business commitments.

I just couldn't resist having a dig at Silver given he has been very quick to bag the organisers of other series when the field that turns up is smaller than advertised.

Hopefully no hard feelings Silver

[SamDale]

A short video of Oz BOSS Race One here.

Rear-of-grid start + bucketloads of rain = minimal visibility + tentative first lap!

Roughly halve the visibility in the video and you'll have a pretty good idea what it was like driving...

(Full url: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_k5FocnVg8 )

[Silver 3]

Originally Posted by noaxetogrind

Good to hear that the whole event was fantastic.

For the avoidance of doubt, can I just say that my previous post was in no way having a go at the AMRS. I fully understand that there are reasons why cars/drivers do not turn up at meetings they have entered. It happens all the time in all categories because for most people involved it is a past-time and other things will end up taking priority such as family or business commitments.

I just couldn't resist having a dig at Silver given he has been very quick to bag the organisers of other series when the field that turns up is smaller than advertised.

Hopefully no hard feelings Silver

Prefer to have that discussion over on the category thread .
What a terrifically improved meeting in general( compared to the bagging of 12 months ago) . Will be interesting to hear what other thought. There was good racing and entertainment-- even in the wet of early Sunday morning. Before the negatives get thrown about some small numbers eg Lotus-- this is their first event after a very difficult interuption to the category direction-- number will build.It seems to me that each meeting seems to be an improvement on the last one -- and there is so much promise of more improvement.Something that many need to note-- it is a pleasure to be involved with these meetings and the can-do approach to problem solving--- and all done in the nicest possible way. Congratulation to everybody at Winton and to the AMRS for a job well done.

[D.R.T.]

Sam cool video, the patience needed with the right foot in those conditions would have been tough.

Originally Posted by Silver 3

Prefer to have that discussion over on the category thread .

So hang on you wont discuss category numbers here in regards to GT but you were quite happy to discuss F3 and OzBoss numbers ? Come on Silver pick a argument and stick to it.

[Robert Ryan]

So hang on you wont discuss category numbers here in regards to GT but you were quite happy to discuss F3 and OzBoss numbers ? Come on Silver pick a argument and stick to it.

Looking at the entries of the Aus GT and Intermarque one has about 20 cars the other had 14..similar cars..why not combine them? 34 cars. Let us not go down the IRL/CART path.

[Silver 3]

Originally Posted by D.R.T.

So hang on you wont discuss category numbers here in regards to GT but you were quite happy to discuss F3 and OzBoss numbers ? Come on Silver pick a argument and stick to it.

You have an amazing ability to not get the point being made.This is an AMRS thread-- not Intermarque or GT( it actually has it's own thread) and I was suggesting that it was a more appropriate thread/place.
Being the AMRS thread a wider discussion on the categories is appropriate-- you are still having a massisve overreaction to what I actually said.Your Cams eye patch is still affecting your judgement.

[Silver 3]

Originally Posted by Robert Ryan

Looking at the entries of the Aus GT and Intermarque one has about 20 cars the other had 14..similar cars..why not combine them? 34 cars. Let us not go down the IRL/CART path.

As I said-prefer to discuss over on other thread --but-- still too early to see the real impact of Intermarqe will have. Look at it this way-- 50% more at Rd2 over Rd1--- 50% more at Rd3 over Rd2-- and from what I hear that sort of gain will be reflected at Rd 4 in Queensland /June17. The numbers were a little better than you quote at Winton-- see Natsoft points on meeting link..
Your suggestion overlooks a key point-- all the GT cars are eligible for Intermarque--- many,many cars eligible for Intermarque are not eligible for GT or are made so uncompetative that only the naive would bother.For a few short weeks back in 2005 Intermarque was going to be the concept-- but the narrow self interested management of saw the interests of the few ride over the large majorities interests.

[Robert Ryan]

many,many cars eligible for Intermarque are not eligible for GT or are made so uncompetative that only the naive would bother.For a few short weeks back in 2005 Intermarque was going to be the concept-- but the narrow self interested management of saw the interests of the few ride over the large majorities interests.

It is certaintly a time NOWto overide such narrow self interest for the betterment of the Sportscar category.
Now back to AMRS..I have never been a big fan and TWO organising groups dilutes what we have available.

[Silver 3]

One of the things that is most noticeable at AMRS meeting is the tremendous goodwill being generated by the organisers of this series.They are enthusiasts who have put the interests of all competitors ahead of their own .It is an interesting contrast! Motorsport is the winner from those efforts-- many new competitors are being attracted to the sport- that is an interesting fact in itself.There is no doubt it is easier( certainly in Victoria) to get a licence and go racing.

[888_1]

After attending my first meeting at Winton last weekend for the AMRS, I have to admit that there is some talent in that pool. However there was a name that i had not heard before driving a V8 GIANT. Shane Hunt in an AU Supercar(Heritage unknown, but i think i saw BJR on an oil catch tank). Whilst he didn't set the world on fire, his improvement over the weekend in what was i think his first outing in a Supercar and also at Winton, I think he acquitted himself quite well. I already know that he is not related to Mathew Hunt. Does anyone know any more. Could be one to watch if given the oppurtunity perhaps???

[D.R.T.]

Originally Posted by Robert Ryan

Looking at the entries of the Aus GT and Intermarque one has about 20 cars the other had 14..similar cars..why not combine them? 34 cars.

25 to be fair Robert and I am sure Intermarque will grow aswell. One championship would be ideal however I am not sure how you are going to get around the CAMS and AASA issues.

Best scenario, get a GT3 spec car (eg like Kais and his Aston) and run in both GT and Intermarque. 16 events per season, alot of fun and great value for a sponsor.

[Crash Test]

Shane Hunt used to race HQs in NSW, but for the past two years has been based in Queensland, racing HQs locally up here.

Top bloke!

[wishbone]

I have heard there was a first at Winton with a competitor withdrawing from the PTCC because his car was 60 KG underweight, apparently the driver was claiming his car weight was higher than the manufacturer stated weight which made him a class C competitor not class B, all PTCC cars were weighted, and the particular car was 60KG under the weight declared by the compactor which meant the officials were right and the car was confirmed as class B…. And as a result the driver spat his dummy and left the event.

Apparently this has caused a real stir, as the AMRS generally has no enforcement of Rules and most categories don’t seam to have any rules. Talk to any one who has competed in the Touring car challenge and you will here that the rules are never enforced and it really is a bit of a sore point. I recall last year one team running florescent green fuel that could only be purchased from one service station in Victoria while complaining that there competition was running a six litre engine.

I just like to say good on the PTCC rules are there for a reason and should be enforced, as a spectator of the series and one who wants to see it do well for the benefit of Australian motorsport, it about time the AMRS started to follow the lead of the PTCC and Start enforcing the rules, the only people who will have a problem with this are the People who Cheat…..

[Chucky]

Originally Posted by Silver 3

F-3 has Toyoto breathing down their neck- how long do you actually think Cams will resist that money!

Depends on who gets to the pot of gold first...............................

Originally Posted by Silver 3

Where would that leave the F-3 cars- in Oz-Boss!. Better to do sooner rather than later.

I certainly think that is long overdue -- when are you planning your move!

I'm not sure an OzBoss car would make the 130% rule ina Formula 3 field!!

[Chucky]

Originally Posted by Robert Ryan

Looking at the entries of the Aus GT and Intermarque one has about 20 cars the other had 14..similar cars..why not combine them? 34 cars. Let us not go down the IRL/CART path.

They're mostly the same cars.

[Silent Number]

Originally Posted by wishbone

I have heard there was a first at Winton with a competitor withdrawing from the PTCC because his car was 60 KG underweight, apparently the driver was claiming his car weight was higher than the manufacturer stated weight which made him a class C competitor not class B, all PTCC cars were weighted, and the particular car was 60KG under the weight declared by the compactor which meant the officials were right and the car was confirmed as class B…. And as a result the driver spat his dummy and left the event.

Apparently this has caused a real stir, as the AMRS generally has no enforcement of Rules and most categories don’t seam to have any rules. Talk to any one who has competed in the Touring car challenge and you will here that the rules are never enforced and it really is a bit of a sore point. I recall last year one team running florescent green fuel that could only be purchased from one service station in Victoria while complaining that there competition was running a six litre engine.

I just like to say good on the PTCC rules are there for a reason and should be enforced, as a spectator of the series and one who wants to see it do well for the benefit of Australian motorsport, it about time the AMRS started to follow the lead of the PTCC and Start enforcing the rules, the only people who will have a problem with this are the People who Cheat…..

Here is some information by a PTCC competitor that I read on another forum, as they say "there are 2 sides to every story"

We must apologize for not responding earlier, but due to circumstances out of our control, read on to here about our misadventures……………….

Prior to this round we have been asking organizers of PTCC (David Platt & Graham Royalett) for confirmation of what weight the focus was required to be. We were advised that all category vehicles would be weighed prior to the event and at the conclusion of the meeting or prior to round 3 we would be advised of the focus weight requirement.

Winton Round 2 (our home track, looking forward to racing after having not competed here since 2004) of the PTCC event this weekend DID NOT happen for Best Racing, we withdrew the vehicle after PTCC organizers advised us 10 minutes before the first practice session Saturday at 12.35pm (12.45 practice session scheduled) that the Focus would be changed to Class B category. Class classification is determined by the power to weight ratio. The focus was weighed along with other vehicles, with no driver and no fuel, empty the focus weighed 1239kg.

The rational provided to us by David Platt & Graham Royalett was:
- PTCC had paperwork (not sure what were it was from) stating that the focus weight should be 1198kg.
- We were told PTCC were going to use this paperwork as the benchmark as this is what they were using for other vehicles, we did not see any other vehicles paperwork.
- They stated they had been researching the focus weight since February and had tried to get information from Ford Australia. We were told Ford Australia would or could not provide the information.
- One website we were provided with that they had been looking at was: www.fordst170.co.uk/specs.php which is in accurate.
- We believe the decision had been made prior to the commencement of the meeting and weighing the car was a formality, they were hoping the car was very light (gee weren’t they dreaming!). The focus was omitted from all prior press releases, focus weight on the PTCC site had been changed to 1208kg prior to the meeting, and the category was receiving pressure from a number of members in the series.

The facts:
- Ford specifications sheet state focus weighs 1283kg.
- Vic Roads registration states focus weighs 1283kg.
- When we raced PCAA series the weight had to be 1295kg and in PCAA Protons have always been in the same class as us.
- Graham Royalett has a conflict of interest a) owns two Proton vehicles competing in class C b) Son in-law is a competitor in class C (Eller).
- The decision was made based on incorrect information and prior to advise given to us.
- Best Racing was not given the opportunity to dispute the information or present our own evidence.
- Best Racing were not provided with a copy of documentation gathered or what was used to base the decision.
- Decision should of have been made after the meeting and by an independent person / persons. Once all parties were given opportunity to present evidence and arguments.
- There are a number of irregularities in the series, cars illegal and there are no Technical Regulations. After reading the PTCC Competition Handbook which refers to Production Touring Car Championship Technical Regulations on many occasions we asked for a copy and were advised by Graham Royalett that none exist!
- We left PCAA as the car was restricted by parity (rev limit (only car in category to have one!), and carried extra 30kg of weight) unable to race the vehicle to its specifications and now facing this new challenge.
- By changing us to a new class it means starting with no points (unable to transfer points across) therefore makes it impossible to win either class championship.
- A number of PTCC members have suggested that as the focus performed well at Wakefield (last year) that it should be in class B. They forget the Focus is very well sorted and prepared, driven by an experienced driver at its limit.

[Chucky]

Conflicts of interest in an AMRS class?

You couldn't imagine such a thing, could you?

[Silver 3]

Originally Posted by Chucky

They're mostly the same cars.

That is not really the case---- all GT car are eligible for Intermarque-- the reverse is not the case-- and those that might technically be able to run are contained to a totally uncompetative(not mildly) position in GT so effectively they cannot run-- they are certainly not wanted there.Intermarque makes all welcome-- a very fundamental difference.

[Silver 3]

Originally Posted by Chucky

Depends on who gets to the pot of gold first...............................



I'm not sure an OzBoss car would make the 130% rule ina Formula 3 field!!

The back of the F3 field is already in that situation. FWIW whn an amalgamation was previously discussed it was F 3 that wanted the FH cars constrained so they would be behind the F3 cars . That was really smart idea that!

[wishbone]

Class classification is determined by the power to weight ratio. The focus was weighed along with other vehicles, with no driver and no fuel, empty the focus weighed 1239kg.

The facts:
- Ford specifications sheet state focus weighs 1283kg.
- Vic Roads registration states focus weighs 1283kg.

Look i am no expert but from what has been posted here the car is 44 KG under the wieght claimed by ford. Iam Sorry but from what i have read here the car was under weight

There are a number of irregularities in the series, cars illegal and there are no Technical Regulations. After reading the PTCC Competition Handbook which refers to Production Touring Car Championship Technical Regulations on many occasions we asked for a copy and were advised by Graham Royalett that none exist!

Strange comment to be made, i just had a look on there website and you can download them. it states in there an again i am not a expert in this field but "All vechiles must be with the presribed wieght of the production model" so by reading this and Darrens own post the cars was 44 KG under weight.

It would be interesting to here from the PTCC on this.