Why do you watch?

[flatlandsman]

I think the petulance comes from the increased team radio, the rather catty endless comments of people cutting corners or never giving space and then being amazed with contact, I would imagine it was always thus, but you hear it now and it is not a great sound for me. For me I would rather not hear it as it paints the drivers in a very bad way for my taste.

Racing is the hatred of DRS, it is such a bad idea but I understand why it was done at the time, it simply makes a mockery of overtaking, it is clearly far too difficult to overtake normally which makes that skill not redundant but less of a big deal.

As for nostalgia, that is the case with many aspects of racing, but for me hugely with f1. it is linked to television, commentary, the cars, the sponsors the way the drives acted, the cars being a bit harder to drive, less reliant so much on aero.

I am genuinely interested in people saying modern F1 excites them, I can even recall the little moments it stopped.

It was Bernie moving Azerbaijan to the same weekend as Le Mans so no driver could race there again, it was Alonso saying sod it let's do other stuff, and watching him avidly soaking up Indy, LM and Dakar and being very proud of this. It was hearing hybrids for the first time, it was seeing men with leaf blowers cooling brakes and then sitting there holding a blanket on a tyre that really makes so little difference! It is these little things that sort of to me make F1 well sorry, look a bit silly!

If you love it, I applaud you I truly do, I wish in some ways I still could get into it, and as I say I am clearly not right as it is hugely popular.

I do try now and then, but usually last a few minutes either of Croft or other things and that is enough, he really does make me switch off I am sorry to say he really is that awful!

If I told you I have free access to SKY aswell that migth explain this!!

[Sodemo]

I think now I largely watch out of habit. I was initially a fan of Mansell during the late 80s and early 90s. I loved the cars, the sounds, the super wide tyres, the sparks and the technological race that was taking place as well, as well as some really gutsy driving.

I tuned out for a while I think during the 2018-2020 seasons, I just got a bit disillusioned with the sport and what it had become, however the title battle with Max and Lewis brought me back a little bit for 2021 and I actually found the latter part of that season pretty engrossing.

Also, you aren't allowed to say that things have gotten too safe - (thats a taboo!) but I think in a lot of ways that they have gotten too safe, there is also a very contradictory approach to circuit safety from the FIA, they will green light a street circuit that is lined with walls for the most part, but then they demand that permanent "old school" race tracks make changes like pushing barriers back and paving the runs off with acres of tarmac. I think there has been a bit of a change in thinking now with that and I have noticed a few venues have returned to gravel for a few areas which is welcome to see.

As the poster mentioned above I think DRS needs to die a horrible horrible death. The mere concept of it is just laughable and often results in "highway passes" well before braking zones.

Back to the question of the thread, "why do I watch"? I watch in the hope that the sport will improve and occasionally it does.

[BTCC frog]

Grand Prix racing has changed a lot over its many decades of existence, but it remains a constant that when there are two or more drivers in contention to win a Grand Prix, and you don't know who is going to win, it will be incredibly exciting and it is worth watching for the chance that this might happen. A great season is one where this can happens all season and leads to a close championship battle, and a great race or season can pop up at any time. 2021 was one of the greatest in history as it wasn't just that Hamilton and Verstappen ended up on the same number of points going into the season finale, but almost every race had intrigue about which of them was going to win it. 2023 was among the worst seasons ever because Singapore and possibly Las Vegas were the only times all year that it wasn't blindingly obvious who would win almost immediately.

So far, 2024 has been similar to 2023, because there hasn't been much intrigue about any race. Miami was the most interesting because at the time of the safety car it looked like there might be a close battle between Norris and Verstappen and while it ultimately turned out to be relatively dominant from Norris, that bodes extremely well for the rest of the season and suggests that Imola might be one where Verstappen and Norris have a really close battle for victory that could go either way until the late stages of the race. It might be another Verstappen domination but I will watch in case it isn't, and have higher hopes than I did before Miami.

There are things that make this era of Formula 1 a bit dull compared to previous ones. I don't think you can watch just for the thrill of seeing the cars anymore, they aren't so spectacular to watch, but I doubt that has been the case for a very long time. But the 2022 ground effect regulations do mean that we rarely seem to see qualifying laps where the driver is clearly on the absolute limit and is fantastic to watch, such as Hamilton at Spa 2020, Leclerc at Sakhir 2020, Norris at Imola 2021, Russell at Paul Ricard 2021 and Verstappen at Jeddah 2021 until the last corner. Also, the cars can follow more closely now but DRS seems to still be with the old regulations so overtaking is too easy at the moment, in my opinion. It often feels like a pass is inevitable or that the drivers don't need to bother attempting risky overtakes, and so my aforementioned enjoyment of races where you don't know who will win until the closing stages often comes due to variations in strategy, which is one of the best features of modern day F1 and is better than ever before. It would be good if racecraft could be rewarded more but it still is occasionally, such as with Alonso's brilliant defence against Perez in Brazil last year.

I would like the cars to be more unstable and difficult to drive so that there are more mistakes, and great performances are more obviously impressive. I think there are too many safety cars at the moment which add too much luck into the equation, such as Norris' win in Miami where other drivers were annoyed that they too could have lucked into the lead by staying out an extra lap. Luck usually balances out over a career and certainly Norris deserved to have won long before Miami 2024, I actually think he is the best driver on the current grid other than Verstappen, but I still think each individual Grand Prix is a significant event. It would be nice if safety cars had less luck involved, maybe by lowering the speed limit in the pitlane accordingly so that pitstops are just as costly as under racing speed, and there is certainly no reason not to close the pitlane under the VSC.

But while all this has generally been about winning races, and I definitely think that a battle for the win is far, far more important to the enjoyment of the race than for any other position, you can always get a bit of enjoyment from the battles lower down. I am genuinely interested to see who can win out of Ocon and Gasly at Alpine and enjoy watching the likes of Ocon or Hulkenberg drag a result out of an uncompetitive car, particularly in qualifying, where you can see that they have beaten someone in a markedly better car than theirs. But I can see that this may not be enough for many other people.

I like Formula 1 particularly over other forms of motorsports because I know about the history and like the connection to that history. It gives the series storylines that aren't there if you just turn on a random race with no knowledge of the competitors, even if the racing isn't as exciting to watch as the Mini Sevens. Those storylines, to individual races, seasons and careers are crucial for motorsports. For example, races in Formula e at the moment are very exciting and there are always many drivers and teams that can win, but I still preferred the era when Sebastien Buemi and Lucas di Grassi, two such contrasting and fascinating drivers, had their two seasons of battling for the championship because there was such an interesting storyline behind that battle. The fact that the Formula 1 drivers and teams are the best in the world also plays a huge role.

There is also a feature of the attitude you have before turning a race on. You can be angry about the refusal to allow Andretti in, the ridiculous penalty decisions of the race before, and insisting you know it will be boring before it starts then you will find yourself looking for things to hate about the race and therefore end up hating it. If you remember that there are more important things in life than motorsport and put it on as a nice thing to do on a Sunday afternoon, and hold the attitude of, 'anything can happen and it usually does,' look for things to find interesting about the race, and not get frustrated about the many imperfections because it doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things, then it will be a more enjoyable watch, I think.

[Sodemo]

Originally Posted by BTCC frog

There are things that make this era of Formula 1 a bit dull compared to previous ones. I don't think you can watch just for the thrill of seeing the cars anymore, they aren't so spectacular to watch, but I doubt that has been the case for a very long time. But the 2022 ground effect regulations do mean that we rarely seem to see qualifying laps where the driver is clearly on the absolute limit and is fantastic to watch, such as Hamilton at Spa 2020, Leclerc at Sakhir 2020, Norris at Imola 2021, Russell at Paul Ricard 2021 and Verstappen at Jeddah 2021 until the last corner. Also, the cars can follow more closely now but DRS seems to still be with the old regulations so overtaking is too easy at the moment, in my opinion. It often feels like a pass is inevitable or that the drivers don't need to bother attempting risky overtakes, and so my aforementioned enjoyment of races where you don't know who will win until the closing stages often comes due to variations in strategy, which is one of the best features of modern day F1 and is better than ever before. It would be good if racecraft could be rewarded more but it still is occasionally, such as with Alonso's brilliant defence against Perez in Brazil last year.

I would like the cars to be more unstable and difficult to drive so that there are more mistakes, and great performances are more obviously impressive. I think there are too many safety cars at the moment which add too much luck into the equation, such as Norris' win in Miami where other drivers were annoyed that they too could have lucked into the lead by staying out an extra lap. Luck usually balances out over a career and certainly Norris deserved to have won long before Miami 2024, I actually think he is the best driver on the current grid other than Verstappen, but I still think each individual Grand Prix is a significant event. It would be nice if safety cars had less luck involved, maybe by lowering the speed limit in the pitlane accordingly so that pitstops are just as costly as under racing speed, and there is certainly no reason not to close the pitlane under the VSC.

They could do something to make the cars more of a handful, slashing the aero would probably achieve some of that, but the teams nor drivers dont want that because they are drunk on downforce.

[Greem]

I know I've had some rather better access to tracks in recent years than paying punters, but trust me when I say that although the cars aren't twitching and sliding everywhere, and therefore "not spectacular" - watching them go round corners like Copse & Stowe in excess of 160mph is just breathtaking.

It is of course even more breathtaking when that attempt means they don't get round the corner, because the edge of the performance/handling envelope for modern cars is so sharp you can cut yourself on it.

[Aysedasi]

I watch F1 basically because I have for many years and it's habitual. I don't consider myself a big fan of F1 (as most know I prefer sportscars) but I watch it and I confess I often doze while it's on, even watching the highlights, especially if they're shown at silly times. While domination of a team or driver is nothing new, the current RBR/Max domination has been quite a big turn off for me, not because I don't like Max but simply because the domination of that one driver has been so extreme. It was a massive delight to see Lando win the last GP and I really hope that he and McLaren can take it to RBR over the rest of the season. For me though the thing that makes F1 less interesting is the incredible reliability rate of the cars. I used to watch GPs knowing that there was a decent chance that a couple of the top 6-8 drivers would have some kind of reliability issue that they had to deal with and car/engine failures would mix things up on a regular basis, but these failures are now so unexpected that they surprise us all when they happen. F1 has had far too much 'predictability' now for many years and I would love to see that unpredictability back in some shape and form. This is all apart from the sometimes grotesque effects of DRS which I consider an abomination....

[VIVA GT]

I've been thinking about my answer to this question for the past few days.
I was born in the mid 1950's and from as very early age I was 'car mad'. I could name & recognise all of the cars on the road and would happily gaze for as long as I was allowed in showroom windows. As I grew older this interest broadened into fascination with anything mechanical, especially something with an engine.
There wasn't the level of motorsport on TV in my youth as there is now, but I avidly watched anything & everything that was broadcast from Formula One to Autotests. At one time I closely followed most forms of four-wheeled motorsport, racing & rallying and once I had my own transport, drove all around the country to watch it live. I briefly dabbled at racing myself soon realising that I didn't have the talent or the budget required, so eventually got myself a job with a Touring Car team. I attended every British GP from 1978 to 1991, many other UK race meetings too over the same time, including trips abroad to Le Mans and other famous races, plus slept in my car whilst following The RAC Rally around the UK.
Over the last few years my enthusiasm has waned, so the only motorsport I see now is what's on TV and no longer being single & selfish there is a limit to how much time I can devote to that. I still follow The BTCC and Formula One, but have very little knowledge about any other forms of the sport apart from what I learn on this forum.
Formula One still does intrigue me, I enjoy the technology even though I can't understand a lot of it. I enjoy the different driver personalities (although they're not the sort of personalities people like Stirling Moss, Graham Hill and Jackie Stewart were when I was a child), I enjoy the intrigue and strategy that goes on in the races (maybe not so much at the front of the race nowadays, but hopefully that'll change.
What I don't enjoy is the *****y-ness between teams (and their supporters), nor do I enjoy the eye-watering amounts of money involved now in the sport. Not just in the preparation and running of the cars, but in the costs of running (and therefore attending) the races. Another personal dislike is the way that the money is also attracting what I see as the wrong type of people to the sport, not enthusiasts who want to see the racing, but people who want to be seen to be at the event or having some kind f involvement, hoping that some of the glamour may rub off on to them in the process and are prepared (or can easily afford) to pay whatever this costs. (This final point may actually be due to a deep-seated personal jealousy that says more about me as a person than I should admit to in public!)
The final question I ask myself is how much longer will I be a fan? For me I think this goes back to why I became interested in the first place, and that was the excitement. Also going back to my beginnings I would say that a lot of this excitement is the sound of the engines. (I was going to say 'noise' but that could just mean volume). It may be only a minor point to some but to me the sound of a racing engine being driven flat out through the gears (up and down) is like music to my ears. if or when tis finally stops, so too will my interest in motorsport.

[BTCC frog]

Originally Posted by Greem

I know I've had some rather better access to tracks in recent years than paying punters, but trust me when I say that although the cars aren't twitching and sliding everywhere, and therefore "not spectacular" - watching them go round corners like Copse & Stowe in excess of 160mph is just breathtaking.

It is of course even more breathtaking when that attempt means they don't get round the corner, because the edge of the performance/handling envelope for modern cars is so sharp you can cut yourself on it.

I was talking about watching on TV in this case, it is certainly still great to watch the cars in person even if the race isn’t particularly exciting. But even when watching as a live spectator, I went to Spa-Francorchamps last year and as cool as it was to see them flat out through Eau Rouge, Pouhon and Blanchimont, I also went to Brands Hatch last weekend and got more of a buzz out of seeing the F4 cars flicking left and right through Surtees and McLaren, with some cars looking quite stable and others almost sideways as they went into Clearways, thus clearly demonstrating who was pushing more than others. But this is a case of people watching for different things, and just as it annoys me when people advocate for reversed grids in F1 when you get those in all sorts of other series, I can see how someone else might not like me suggesting the sliding would be preferable to that outright speed when I can see the sliding in F4 and the speed is part of what makes F1 special for many people. In general, I would still always prefer to watch F1 to F4 for the reasons mentioned before.

[flatlandsman]

I think the safety thing is interesting

I have only recently become a huge WEC fan, and one aspect of that intrigued me, tyres. Last year they banned tyre warmers, leading to the odd sight at certain races of GT cars overtaking a state of the art prototype on the brakes into some corners and the drivers literally driving on ice for a couple of laps until tyres warmed. I found this both scary and fascinating, it clearly had to be sorted, but interestingly they have still not brought warmers back, merely tried to improve the tyres.

I recall watching wet/dry races at Le Mans last year and Imola this year and beiung genuinely scared at the risks being taken on slick tyres in horrid conditions, I think the last time I felt that during F1 races was the early Lewis period. But I was genuinely in awe of these men and women doing this. And I have to tell you having a female team capable of winning their class is also a huge factor in me loving WEC at the moment.

This is clearly an issue hard to replicate in F1, but I do feel some safety aspects are not helping the spectacle, I totally understand why, you cannot have huge incidents, but in Grade 1 venues, the risk is SOOO much less than at say Cadwell! hence why these top classes only race at venues that suit them. There was a huge crash at Spa this weekend, a venue notable for its fatalities recently,but it was largely contained. As were some of the horrific incidents at Silverstone in F1 recently, something they should be proud, of, BUT to the detriment of the average punters view!

Some fantastic responses to this which I thank you for and exactly what I was looking for, a mixture of habit, fascination, and genuine enjoyment.

I am not far away, I tried to new regs for a couple lf races last time they changed but quickly realised nothing much had changed, so I hope the new regs in a few years mix it up and make the cars more difficult to drive.

I am not stupid I know they are not really easy to drive but they look it, and that is the fault of the tens of millions spent on sims and CFD, this needs to also be looked at, we need jeopardy in F1 and right now there seems to be none. I mean where was there last a sodding puncture!! Happens every WEC race for about 5 cars!!

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by flatlandsman

I have only recently become a huge WEC fan

I used to be a big fan of WEC and sports car racing. But given the level of BoP in these series, that is what I feel is "fake racing". I know they are racing what the series allows, but those cars are no longer about technical excellence. I made my comment earlier that all motorsports rules are man made. And series in which BoP exists is no different. But it does take away from the engineering competition which is a core reason I follow F1.

Originally Posted by flatlandsman

so I hope the new regs in a few years mix it up and make the cars more difficult to drive.

I am curious as to why you think the new regulations will make the cars more difficult to drive (or should make them more difficult?) You sort of answer my question below...

Originally Posted by flatlandsman

I am not stupid I know they are not really easy to drive but they look it, and that is the fault of the tens of millions spent on sims and CFD, this needs to also be looked at, we need jeopardy in F1 and right now there seems to be none. I mean where was there last a sodding puncture!! Happens every WEC race for about 5 cars!!

Motorsports at top levels is quite mature. So cars are generally refined and reliable. Improvements in reliability results in the relatively short F1 race distances don't expose issues with reliability as it was decades ago. Retirements are generally rare. Endurance racing (and in particular multi-class endurance racing) both extends the duration of the race enough that reliability issues has more opportunity to make it's impact felt as well as has the challenge of multiple classes on the track at the same time and the potential for havoc that can create (see Spa recently).

Richard

[flatlandsman]

I was not really stating I think the new regs make it better, I was merely hoping it does, then I might start watching it again.

I will for sure admit I utterly loath domination and predictable results, hence most of the hybrid era has pretty much been a tough sell for me anyway!!

but I grew up on short ovals racing with handicapped starts where wins and the like really are truly earned by passing everyone from the back!! So, I come at this from a different angle

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by flatlandsman

I was not really stating I think the new regs make it better, I was merely hoping it does, then I might start watching it again.

Understand. Just to set expectations, I don't think there is anything in the goals for the 2026 regulations that target making the cars harder to drive. I would expect more of how it is today from that perspective.

Richard

[Sandgroper]

Im involved and watch all forms of Motorsport (Including F1) and moreso when there are Aussies racing as it gives me further interest.

The Most Exciting Racing to watch by far is MotoGP Hands Down.
opps and Nitro Drag Racing

[S griffin]

I watch it because I always have. Of course it's not the same with Verstappen/RBR dominating, but that is only part of the problem. The problem I have is gimmicks like DRS and having to run two types of compounds per race. I'd rather see overtaking skill go back to drivers and have teams run whatever strategy they like. The constant track limits penalty is also getting boring. Really need less tarmac run off. Add to the fact there's too many GP venues that add nothing and it's hard to keep the same passion. However I will keep watching in the hope one day the sport learns from it's mistakes and I can enjoy the sport fully again

[steve_r]

Originally Posted by flatlandsman

I think the safety thing is interesting

I have only recently become a huge WEC fan, and one aspect of that intrigued me, tyres. Last year they banned tyre warmers, leading to the odd sight at certain races of GT cars overtaking a state of the art prototype on the brakes into some corners and the drivers literally driving on ice for a couple of laps until tyres warmed. I found this both scary and fascinating, it clearly had to be sorted, but interestingly they have still not brought warmers back, merely tried to improve the tyres.

I recall watching wet/dry races at Le Mans last year and Imola this year and beiung genuinely scared at the risks being taken on slick tyres in horrid conditions, I think the last time I felt that during F1 races was the early Lewis period. But I was genuinely in awe of these men and women doing this. And I have to tell you having a female team capable of winning their class is also a huge factor in me loving WEC at the moment.

This is clearly an issue hard to replicate in F1, but I do feel some safety aspects are not helping the spectacle, I totally understand why, you cannot have huge incidents, but in Grade 1 venues, the risk is SOOO much less than at say Cadwell! hence why these top classes only race at venues that suit them. There was a huge crash at Spa this weekend, a venue notable for its fatalities recently,but it was largely contained. As were some of the horrific incidents at Silverstone in F1 recently, something they should be proud, of, BUT to the detriment of the average punters view!

Some fantastic responses to this which I thank you for and exactly what I was looking for, a mixture of habit, fascination, and genuine enjoyment.

I am not far away, I tried to new regs for a couple lf races last time they changed but quickly realised nothing much had changed, so I hope the new regs in a few years mix it up and make the cars more difficult to drive.

I am not stupid I know they are not really easy to drive but they look it, and that is the fault of the tens of millions spent on sims and CFD, this needs to also be looked at, we need jeopardy in F1 and right now there seems to be none. I mean where was there last a sodding puncture!! Happens every WEC race for about 5 cars!!

Motorsport will always be dangerous. I genuinely thought that Grosjean was dead when he had that huge crash and fire a couple of years ago. And that was at a track that looked safer than some others on the calendar.

On one hand F1 has done great things to improve safely, and I am at a loss as to why anyone would think that this ruins the spectacle. On the other hand many of the newer street tracks introduced to my unqualified eyes look more dangerous than ever. Singapore, Baku and other newer high speed street circuits combine flat out / very high speed corners with often no run off at all. There's your danger if that is what floats your boat. For me, I am just glad when we finish those races without serious incident.

[flatlandsman]

I am not saying I necessarily want dangerous tracks, what I want really is more penalty for making mistakes, like running into gravel or onto grass, this seems to be creeping back into some tracks again now, notably Spa and a few others. But I think we can all agree being allowed endless run off room has simply encouraged teams and drivers to take stupid risks, make idiotic moves as they know they can get away with it, it is a chicken and egg deal. Do you not think if you make it harder to make mistakes drivers learn quickly and reign it in?

I do not want more accidents; that is not at all the intention, the intention is to make it more punishable if you make a driving error, this would surely mean the top guys shine a little more than everyone else?

I do not get excited watching a driver drive a fabulous car at mega speeds on an airfield, but put that car on the Ring in the rain in a race with 150 cars of differing speeds and ability and wow, that is interesting and shows up immense skill from both sets of drivers.

I know that is impossible with F1, but I do think the cars could be harder to drive, and I am sure you could do this without really pegging back on technology, even in the early DRS days they looked harder to drive, edgy and on the limit, they do not seem to now. And importantly, I also think the drivers, the real drivers would relish it.

I also find it fascinating that a few people have said they continue to watch in the hope it gets better, I can not do that admittedly, as soon as I find myself becoming bored or drifting off I am done, it might take a few years but once that bridge is crossed, something serious needs to happen to make me watch again. But I have done it, MotoGP was one as was Wold Superbikes, but I drifted away from BTCC after Super Touring and nothing has bought me back, despite it being praps closer and more varied, the cars just do not interest me.

I did try with the ground effect changes but let's be honest other than the first few races of cars handling poorly and porpoising, the teams quickly got on top of it, which is amazing engineering but made it quickly as predictable as it was before.

But again, thanks to folks for replying, it has been genuinely interesting to me.

[Alan52]

Originally Posted by flatlandsman

I have only recently become a huge WEC fan

I find this strange.I have been a long time sports car fan both Prototype and GT.Le Mans is my favourite race in the world.
BUT the current WEC BoP is afar more artificial thing than anything in F1.Someone upthread described it as the professional wrestling of motor racing which is about right.Unless your level of interest is as superficial as “watch the pretty cars go round” the current WEC is a circus out of touch with the history of the 100 years of Le Mans.
I am curious how you can be critical of modern F1 yet be so enthusiastic about modern WEC.

[Aysedasi]

But the first 3 hours of Le Mans last year was more exciting than the whole F1 season put together.... BoP or no BoP.....

[Greem]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

But the first 3 hours of Le Mans last year was more exciting than the whole F1 season put together.... BoP or no BoP.....

Yep. I have the left side wing mirror off the Dempsey Proton Porsche to prove it!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ikaOc6yvU8

It hit right where I had just been standing. At the point of impact I was in a ditch!

[Alan52]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

But the first 3 hours of Le Mans last year was more exciting than the whole F1 season put together.... BoP or no BoP.....

I agree it was close and dramatic which equals excitement I guess.However if you are looking at the bigger picture in a category that has always championed technical development and competition you had the knowledge that some makes we’re being handicapped and some favoured in the interest of “the show”.If you are OK with Hypercars being a parity formula where no car can have a decisive advantage no matter how good their car is then no problems.I just have never looked at Le Mans this way.
If you read the Sports Car Review in Autocourse which is as close to a bible as motor racing has the first page was not about the year of close racing but the farce that the ACO BoP is.Elephant in the room.

[Aysedasi]

I confess I'm not 'happy' with it as such, as I'd much prefer open competition with no artificial constraints, but it's also a case of balancing that desire with wanting to watch close exciting racing. Seeing the best car win Le Mans by 12 laps (or whatever) is no real fun at all. I could marvel at the Audis when they dominated, but was I excited, no....

[flatlandsman]

Quite honestly BoP is nothing compared to DRS. BoP is simply a way to ensure multiple teams and types of cars can race very closely and it is constantly adjusted pretty much at every race in every category other than stuff like LMP2 or 3, but even then the Orecas were hamstrung for years and wil be at Le Mans as they are so good they could easily beat half the Hypercar field even mow with full power, so good are they.

I would argue than in some ways BoP is not great, in GTWC for instance the modern type of tracks and BoP make overtaking borderline risky rather than possible, but in stuff like WEC and other multi class races there is so much passing and lapping and incident involving both, that BoP becomes less of a barrier.

The only other real issue is when they get it wrong, such as with Porsche at last yeast Daytona when tall their cars were hopelessly slow and it can often happen at Le Mans at times.

But compared to a flap in the wing that makes overtaking so easy I could do it, sorry that is a joke, push to pass is perhaps better, but to make that so that fans as the track can work it out is hard, but as most F1 fans are only there to look pretty and take pictures of themselves on their phones it hardly matters lol!

SO I understand the issues of both but I would rather have BoP than DRS thanks!

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by flatlandsman

Quite honestly BoP is nothing compared to DRS.

Bold perspective.

With BoP WEC really no longer has a constructors championship. Or at least it has moved from a technical to a political one. BoP creates something somewhere between a nearly spec series such as Indycar and a more technically free series such as F1.

Fans of motorsports like racing for various reasons. Some like only the on-track action. They could be racing spec or bespoke machinery and they don't care one way or another. Other consider the technical competition to be part of the overall "competition". I am not saying one is right or wrong. I see benefits of both. But what does F1 want to be?

In general flatlandsman, it seem you are OK with manipulation of the technology via BoP. How is DRS worse?

I can make my own bold statement. DRS is more natural than something like BoP. I made comments earlier in this thread that all the rules are basically arbitrary and there is nothing particularly "natural" about them. I can argue it the other direction. We have natural effects such as "drafting" as a way to pass a leading car. You can argue that DRS is effectively a way to codify that into the technical regulations. And unlike BoP it is applied evenly and without prejudice. The next version in 2026 sound like it will be even more fairly distributed as I suspect that anyone can deploy DRS in any DRS zone regardless of you needing to be within one second of a leading driver.

[flatlandsman]

I think if you are a diehard F1 fan and see BoP as a hugely troubling thing then perhaps that is why it is so much of a big deal? F1 is about working within rules to find an advantage, BoP would rule that out. I see your point in some ways.

Do you feel the same way about single make series, or ballast weight, a thing found in all sorts of series?

For me BoP simply equalises the cars a bit, and is very much adjustable. DRS on the other hard makes the basic point of racing, overtaking a total and utter farce.

With DRS you still have to have a good car, and you still have to be quick enough to get close, but the actual art of passing has been totally lost. I admit I do not watch F1 enough now to know if real passing truly occurs as it once did.

Also, I am not really old enough to really have gotten into WEC before this was a big thing. I will admit for me it has largely ruined GT3 racing, but the trouble is without it, manufacturers might get a car wrong, be trounced and leave, in this day and age and with motorsport on the cusp in some ways of becoming irrelevant, do you really wish that?

I do not know if you watch series like IMSA or WEC, but the BoP really does make it a bit more of a lottery, that is something I find enjoyable, I utterly hate, loath and despise predictable results, it is anathema to me sorry. I understand the purist might cringe at that, but for me saying F1 is pure when part of it removes the most vital aspect of racing, is hypocritical, not you, I am not saying you, but anyone saying F1 is pure when DRS exists surely.

I will offer an olive branch. I follow MotoGP quite closely, currently dominated by European factories, and the two large Japanese makes have been given dispensation to test more, make more changes to try and close the gap. Does this make you pull back in the same way? Or like me are you more relieved that the Japanese factories who once were dominant, and begrudgingly allowed Ducati, Aprilia and KTM this extra room to develop years ago now have the chance to eat humble pie and do the same!!!

[Alan52]

Originally Posted by flatlandsman

For me BoP simply equalises the cars a bit, and is very much adjustable.

I am not completely anti BoP but the ACO BoP is a sham.They set rules initially about when and on what basis BoP would be adjusted then they break their own rules.
Firstly for Le Mans last year BoP was adjusted in the days leading up to the race which was completely against their own regulations.Then they have now decided that they can adjust it on what they perceive as potential performance rather than actual performance.In other words what side of bed they get out of that morning.
Also in the days before DRS you could go through a whole F1 race with nearly no overtaking outside of mechanical issues.If you look at time sheets and lap charts from your “glory days” of the 60s you will be staggered at how spread out the times were and how little overtaking occurred.If your idea of entertainment in F1 is cars going around waiting for some of them to break down be my guest.