When should mika 'help' coulthard? - Page 2

Raoul Duke · 7 Jun 2001, 20:12 (Ref:102335)

I think that Team orders should be banned from racing. So that means that Mika shouldn't help David, and Rubens should help TGF either.

Alan Jones · 7 Jun 2001, 20:31 (Ref:102343)

I too am against team orders but the minute 1 team starts using them, the only way to stay in the fight with an equal chance is to do the same. I can't see this changing as as we all know, sponsors are rather keen on getting maximum exposure for their investment. Problem is, it sort of kills the whole essence of racing doesn't it.I guess the bottom line is, unless F1 looses a large percentage of their fanbase because of this, nothing will change.......

Red · 8 Jun 2001, 11:18 (Ref:102509)

Yeah, the essence of racing and sportsmanship. According to a vast majority (Max Mosley included) team orders basically mean fixing the result of a race. But according to a vast majority Fangio/Collins affaire so heavily discussed in a recent thread is an example of ultimate sportsmanship and altruism. Beats me.

No-no-no, NOW I get it! Team-orders indeed mean something really dirty! They were not needed those days!

Valve Bounce · 8 Jun 2001, 11:31 (Ref:102520)

Quote:

Originally posted by Red
Yeah, the essence of racing and sportsmanship. According to a vast majority (Max Mosley included) team orders basically mean fixing the result of a race. But according to a vast majority Fangio/Collins affaire so heavily discussed in a recent thread is an example of ultimate sportsmanship and altruism. Beats me.

No-no-no, NOW I get it! Team-orders indeed mean something really dirty! They were not needed those days!

Red, I don't know where you are coming from as there is no smilie in your post. However, I really wouldn't like to see team orders or team tactics or just unfair tactics get to the stage where a driver is driven into a gravel trap, so that his rival can win. I know this can take several combinations, all of which I find totally distasteful.
I personally would like to see a race without any team orders: best man wins.
Same with sailing, or at least that's how I sail. If I can't win a championship by beating my fellow sailors fairly, then I'd rather lose.

Red · 8 Jun 2001, 11:36 (Ref:102523)

VB! Waitaminute! Never did I say that I would like a driver pushing another one into gravel so the rival can win, did I? And may the best win, yes, I want that too. However making the best use of resources (in that case cleverly sharing the points within the team) means that the best won. We seem to misinterpret the meaning of the word "team".

Red · 8 Jun 2001, 11:39 (Ref:102525)

Oh, by the way, I was not joking in my previous post. I really don't understand.

Valve Bounce · 8 Jun 2001, 12:29 (Ref:102547)

Quote:

Originally posted by Red
VB! Waitaminute! Never did I say that I would like a driver pushing another one into gravel so the rival can win, did I? And may the best win, yes, I want that too. However making the best use of resources (in that case cleverly sharing the points within the team) means that the best won. We seem to misinterpret the meaning of the word "team".

Red!! I think you are counting your bridges before I cross my chickens.

I said I did not know where you were coming from because there was no smilie!! I really didn't understand what you meant, or that you intended a

I then just followed up with my own thoughts to further the discussion. That's why I said "However". I really, personally, would prefer the WDC to be an individual championship, with the driver helped by his own team of mechanics only, and not by a team mate whatsoever.
Don't get me wrong - I love team sports also, and when I was at school, I lived only for Rugby, and when I played my last game at school, I had the most awful depression after the game that I couldn't understand. (We had won, and I scored the winning touchdown

)It was just that my team had played its last game.

Wrex · 8 Jun 2001, 12:37 (Ref:102551)

To answer original question - NOW, immediately, start at last race!!!

Its time to show your hypocracy Ron (again) and give DC a fighting chance. But then again, Ferrari may take him off the payroll despite the fact he is there most valuable employee so far this season.

Valve Bounce · 8 Jun 2001, 12:45 (Ref:102557)

Quote:

Originally posted by Wrex
To answer original question - NOW, immediately, start at last race!!!

You want him to start at the last race

By then, the championship would be over. It would be better if they sorted the LUNCH control and start at the next race in Canada.

Wrex · 8 Jun 2001, 12:50 (Ref:102561)

sorry VB - I was speaking Aussie, start at previous race

Valve Bounce · 10 Jun 2001, 09:32 (Ref:103251)

Red, I hope you saw my reply above - this thread disapeared fast.:confused:

Red · 10 Jun 2001, 10:08 (Ref:103259)

VB, as a matter of facts I saw it in the first place. My post that you’ve quoted was a reply to a whole paragraph that started with “Red, ...”. Probably that confused me. Anyway, wanna meet in the chat room? I’m there right now. (http://tentenths.com/chat/)

Valve Bounce · 17 Jun 2001, 02:48 (Ref:106048)

Although team orders didn't come into play due to
David's retirement, Mika has since stated that even if
he is asked to move over for David, he won't do it. The Finn was finally asked the
question many have been wondering about and that was, if asked, would you sacrifice
the lead, and although he tried to avoid answering, he finally admitted that he would
race to win regardless.

"I would go flat out myself and win it," he told a news conference in Kiev. "I have to
win. That's what I'm paid for and that's what the team expects me to do. That's what
I'm trying to do."
Well, thats a pretty definite NO!

Jay · 17 Jun 2001, 04:05 (Ref:106058)

That would be somewhat unfair considering all the times that David moved over for Mika... I know it is not as often as people have moved over for Michael, but Mika stills owes it to David.

Wrex · 17 Jun 2001, 05:42 (Ref:106064)

Valve - where did this quote come from? I have serious doubts about its validity. Mika would have moved over in Canada for David (despite Uncle Rons BS).

Firstly, Mika won't have a choice - Team orders are team orders. If he ignores them, then we can assume with great accuracy what his plans are next year.

Also, from a moral perspective, he owes David big time and with his own championship over (lets not delude ourselves with mathematical possiblilities), he should move over without being asked. I think he would too, as Mika is a gentleman, and thats why I have reservations about this quote.

Valve Bounce · 17 Jun 2001, 07:51 (Ref:106090)

Let me know if I have convinced you, WREX

Gt_R · 17 Jun 2001, 08:35 (Ref:106100)

I have read it too..from F1-live.com

I do not think Mika would move over for DC in the future, unless being forced by the team, or the occassional once or twice at most. And i hope he does not...DC had mouthed off the need to have orders...so lets see how much he can achieve himself...*not alot i think!*

Alan Jones · 17 Jun 2001, 09:00 (Ref:106107)

WOW, read the same at F1 Live and am quite amazed.We won't really know until the situation arrives on the track and then we shall see how Mika reacts. Mika owes him bigtime and should support him as I have stated previously. David needs good finishes in the next GP's to wipe out any dreams Mika might still have of mounting a challenge himself.

Isn't it great to finally have someone else to get ****ed with instead of JPM

Valve Bounce · 17 Jun 2001, 09:03 (Ref:106109)

Quote:

Originally posted by AlanJones

Isn't it great to finally have someone else to get ****ed with instead of JPM

I'm getting to the stage that I like all the F1 drivers. That way, I can enjoy my races thoroughly.

Gt_R · 17 Jun 2001, 10:19 (Ref:106113)

If you ask me, this is the best season since slicks started!

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