New Engine for 2006 - Page 2

JohnMiller · 17 May 2005, 07:17 (Ref:1302780)

If this conversion costs, all told, £4k but your engine doesn't need a rebuild every 10/15 hours it should be better overall.

What intrigues me is that, if you convert older cars to the new spec. it may well shake-up the old order.

Ie. the converted Zetecs may be more or less-well suited to the change than the older Kent designs and some older designs may gain overall performance whereas some may lose.

Assuming performance is still supposed to be largely as per the current FF1600 regs, (club) people are unlikely to switch from Kents straightaway and will likely see how things develop. Also if people switch, supply/demand may actually make the Kent motors much more price appealing to some.

IMO, therefore, if the Kent-engined cars maintain reasonable parity with the new then it has to be a good thing.

Hopefully, any pratt suggesting wings, slicks and turbos, can **** right off to FBMW, FRenault, or Monoposto...

Mackmot · 17 May 2005, 10:41 (Ref:1302884)

Im just a pratt that wants to see Britains next generation of drivers learn to drive properly not like the current breed who are already up to F3 level and dont have a clue how to drive. Im also a pratt that knows that a symetrical cross sectional aerofoil would make no bloody difference. Im also the pratt that wants to see FF back where it should be. Not at the bottom like where you seem to want to keep it. Im also the pratt that has suggested many routes to go since the late 90's and made headways for them with the organisers never taking things up. At least I try. And finally I am also the pratt that has grown up with all of this, it is my life, this is what I do and I am proud of my sport and the history behind it, I am most proud of Ff which I have been involved with since I was conceived. Im not just some Billy who drives about for fun and thinks they have a right to be involved with peoples businesses and destinies.

Kicking-back · 17 May 2005, 10:45 (Ref:1302885)

The Formula Ford forum on ten-tenths is under "Club Level Single Seaters" - that is where I believe Formula Ford fits into motorsport these days.

And that's no bad thing.

Mackmot · 17 May 2005, 10:53 (Ref:1302892)

So if Formula Ford doesnt go back to where it should be how are we going to teach our young drivers to drive? You may not know much about it but FBMW and FR do not teach a driver to understand and feel grip. They dont even handle like F3 cars, especially the Renault.

Triple J Motorsport · 18 May 2005, 10:29 (Ref:1303624)

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnMiller

What intrigues me is that, if you convert older cars to the new spec. it may well shake-up the old order.

Ie. the converted Zetecs may be more or less-well suited to the change than the older Kent designs and some older designs may gain overall performance whereas some may lose.

Yes it could well be the shorter narrower older cars like the RF90 and Reynard 89 would be better suited to a much lighter engine. Still got to have a new chassis, rebuilt dampers, gearbox, etc

Redracer77 · 18 May 2005, 10:44 (Ref:1303631)

If the engine is so much lighter then you will needs loads of lead as my RF90 is 418kg's without fuel now. If the engine was then loads lighter then I would need to have a heavier floor made or something like that?

mattray · 18 May 2005, 10:59 (Ref:1303646)

Maybe they could combine the driver weight with the car? Worms anyone? while I am opening them??

I am sure there is a mobile service that could accuratly weigh your car if you are worried. (awsome that *********** is on the sensored list!!)

JohnMiller · 18 May 2005, 11:17 (Ref:1303660)

[QUOTE=mattray]Maybe they could combine the driver weight with the car? Worms anyone? while I am opening them??[QUOTE]

Very funny.

Any superlight cars could surely just run thick, steel floors?

Mind you if Ford want to use a Zetec style iron exhaust and the likes of an alternator God knows what the weights will be like...

MarkG · 18 May 2005, 16:47 (Ref:1303890)

going back to the comment that formula ford is club racing and better for it. I agree, and have no problem with that, but it also has to be a graduation level that is attractive to the wannabe GP stars (& teams charging *sensible* budgets) so that club racing can feed off it and benefit from having available good cars to race. That's a key reason why FF has been so successful for many years.
So, upgrading the engine and putting FF back (hopefully) into mainstream can only benefit all drivers, club and pro alike.

Athgoe Racing · 18 May 2005, 18:32 (Ref:1303971)

Slicks and wings have no place on a true FF, this is a low grip formula which teaches drivers how to overtake. Look at 1800 very little passing as a result of slicks. BMW have so much grip that you can change the car a lot and the driver feels nothing. You can't race close coz you're afraid you'll damage your front wing which will F up your race. So this is why ff1600 has lasted so long and will go down in history as the best learning formula. Why change to slicks and wings when you know what works and if they make that change ff 1600 Kent will still be there when the new class die's.

MarkG · 18 May 2005, 19:46 (Ref:1304011)

I don't think I intimated FF having wings. That's the LAST thing I would want. I don't like wings and downforce and paddle change & everything else you can mention that makes a driver's job easier, and which makes follow-my leader "racing".

foreversideways · 18 May 2005, 21:38 (Ref:1304101)

BMW is a joke !!. Not many more horses than FF1600 but with an Aero package and slicks. Also advantage of a light car is that you can add the weight where it will help you.

Triple J Motorsport · 19 May 2005, 09:50 (Ref:1304396)

The new engine formula won't have wings

I think unfortunately it's likely to be current FFZetec rules eg slicks, alloy wheels, alloy brakes, expensive 3 way dampers etc

I hope it's FF1600 rules except the engine

itsonlyme · 19 May 2005, 17:59 (Ref:1304737)

if a new engine will keep ff1600 going then go for it........... BUT has anyone wondered why ford are now introducing a new engine for ff1600??? - is it because they dont make kent engines any more and dont get any revenue from it, so a new engine is the only way to get more money off the racers!!!!!

MarkG · 31 May 2005, 10:07 (Ref:1315535)

So what is the latest on the new engine? anyone know? Basically, will there be Kent FF1600's racing next year and after? I assume the National FF will go 1600 Duratec, but what about the other championships? Classics?

Triple J Motorsport · 3 Jun 2005, 14:02 (Ref:1319064)

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarkG

So what is the latest on the new engine? anyone know? Basically, will there be Kent FF1600's racing next year and after? I assume the National FF will go 1600 Duratec, but what about the other championships? Classics?

Anyone heard anything new/more?

Alan Hamilton · 3 Jun 2005, 16:09 (Ref:1319207)

If this decision to change to the new engine next year is announced, just watch what happens to the price of Kent engines.

Anybody who has just bought one or invested in buying spare blocks may have their fingers burnt when trying to off load them.

I'm sure Ebay and racecarsdirect will be littered with them.

Redracer77 · 3 Jun 2005, 16:13 (Ref:1319212)

I don't think it will be too bad as they should keep the normal engine that could race in class b. This means all the guys that can't afford to swap can still race. As long as the new engine is quicker!!!. Imagine that zetec speed with ACB10s!!!!

Barry Pomfret · 3 Jun 2005, 20:09 (Ref:1319440)

Zetecs did use to run on ACB10s! When the zetec class first came out the treaded tyres were used for a season, gave some very interesting handling characteristics, particularly in the wet.

Redracer77 · 3 Jun 2005, 20:28 (Ref:1319467)

ACB10s are entertaining in the wet!!!

Triple J Motorsport · 3 Jun 2005, 23:14 (Ref:1319581)

Not as bad as I thought they'd be

Triple J Motorsport · 8 Jun 2005, 10:15 (Ref:1323045)

The article in BRN suggests slicks will be used.

It goes on about crash testing but you can use older cars so can't see the problem as all new FF1600 have crash boxes and side impact protection now!

Nice picture of my car though!

GolddustMini · 10 Jun 2005, 15:55 (Ref:1324886)

i dont think it will take off as well as people hope, but thats my opinion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bagodonuts

It will be the new 1600 alloy engine from the fiesta. Why do you think 3,000 quid for a retro fit kit and engine is ridiculous?

I think the fact that people cling to the deceased Kent engine is ridiculous, it was and still is a great engine and formula but the fact is Ford stopped making the engine a long time ago and the Formula has moved on. Speak to Alan from Scholar and see if he can build you a new kent engine, oh no... no parts to do that.

I find it odd that people are now going great lenghts to scrap yards and paying an absurd premium for rubbish parts in an attempt to revive the kent FF's but yet complain about a new solution with readily available parts. Think... you'll be able to retro-fit the engine to old kent chassis and newer zetec chassis, thus being able to boost grids in all FF levels, from your weekend warrior club races to your young aspiring F1 drivers in the National Championship, not to mention actually having parts readily available.

The writing is on the wall, how much longer will people be able to find parts for them? and once the parts aren't available it won't be possible to continue running kent engines and it will cease to exist.

you my friend do not know very much at all. so hang on a minute, i drive a car with an engine thats been out of production since the 70's (rover p6 2200sc) does that make me stupid for not updating it to run something more modern like a Kseries. people stick to the kent engine because well thats what the cars are intended to run, thats where the class rules stipulate you must run. parts are available, new parts are available for most of engine, apart from perhaps manifolds, blocks and heads (parts that without problems dont actually need changing) these parts are available second hand, new engines can be built, hell ive built a number of them.

scholar if ive not mistaken have moved on and tune k series now as there main choice, although i assume they still do kent rebuilds. im sure he would build you a new one given the parts (he probably wont have them in stock).

in your opinion then historic racing anything is rediculous, people race formula fords because they are great fun, a budget way of going racing (however RACING IS NOT CHEAP), and theres a great following (look on this forum, its packed full of FF racers, infact go to a racing track on a weekend, look at all the formula fords!) people like racing them, and that is why so many are going strong, if it was rediculous surely everyone would have retired the cars and be doing something else (basket weaving or the like).

Bagodonuts · 20 Jun 2005, 03:55 (Ref:1334015)

Quote:

Originally Posted by GolddustMini

i dont think it will take off as well as people hope, but thats my opinion.

you my friend do not know very much at all. so hang on a minute, i drive a car with an engine thats been out of production since the 70's (rover p6 2200sc) does that make me stupid for not updating it to run something more modern like a Kseries. people stick to the kent engine because well thats what the cars are intended to run, thats where the class rules stipulate you must run. parts are available, new parts are available for most of engine, apart from perhaps manifolds, blocks and heads (parts that without problems dont actually need changing) these parts are available second hand, new engines can be built, hell ive built a number of them.

scholar if ive not mistaken have moved on and tune k series now as there main choice, although i assume they still do kent rebuilds. im sure he would build you a new one given the parts (he probably wont have them in stock).

in your opinion then historic racing anything is rediculous, people race formula fords because they are great fun, a budget way of going racing (however RACING IS NOT CHEAP), and theres a great following (look on this forum, its packed full of FF racers, infact go to a racing track on a weekend, look at all the formula fords!) people like racing them, and that is why so many are going strong, if it was rediculous surely everyone would have retired the cars and be doing something else (basket weaving or the like).

I think you missed the boat... and no I don't know everything, but I am entitled to an opinion and do know a thing or two (sorry to say but I'm a lot more involved in racing than you might think). Also if you read closely I never said historic racing was rubbish, quite often it's great racing as is the case with the revived FF1600 races, I don't like the F3/FRenault processionals any more than the next guy.

No... not updating your Rover doesn't make you stupid, "if it ain't broke don't fix it" however should it break, due to it being somewhat of an antique... yes certain parts will be difficult to find, same with the Kent engines. I know for a fact NZ and AUS along with several other countries struggle to obtain parts for Kent 1600's and know people in the UK have struggled at times as well often paying quite a lot for second hand parts. Also look at the reliability of the zetec/ more current engines... cannot say the same for a Kent.

What I'm disappointed in is that Ford RS have proposed an update for the Formula and immediately it gets shot down. There's nothing wrong with FF1600's and I am glad to see good fields, but don't you think it would be good to see a rejuvenated, quality National FF championship that offers a top notch entry series for karters,etc not to mention great pound per mile? Whether it's a 1600 or an 1800 a Formula Ford is the best training ground for young drivers and the best value around for your would be professionals to clubbies alike. Ford are proposing a modern, economical solution aimed at the revival of the National championship but if all people are going to do is slag it and knock it down, then arguably the best F1/F3 feeder series will cease to exist. If people are happy with the Kent engine good on them... run it into the ground its a great little motor in a great series, but times/specs have moved on. The fact is instead of knocking Zetec or Kents and talking about who knows what blah blah blah, we should be encouraging the potential for growth and stability in the formula by being proactive... don't ya tink?

mountainstar · 20 Jun 2005, 22:09 (Ref:1335178)

Time to face reality for some. Formula Ford needs a new engine. The kent is 40 years old. Leave that to the historics.

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