BTCC BTCC 2019 - Thruxton - Rounds 7, 8, 9 - Page 2

crmalcolm · 16 May 2019, 11:10 (Ref:3904100)

Quote:

Originally Posted by porsche962fan

they have been outdone by BTC and even AMD to this point

The teams' standings - in isolation - puts Halfords Yuasa ahead of Cobra Sport.

Comparing them to Cobra Sport is a bit unjust, as they are different cars. It makes as much sense as comparing them to other 15 teams that are below them in the standings.

Are they really being outdone though - or is it that Cook and Butcher are outperforming Neal and Cammish?

I think it's a bit early to suggest they really have problems in a team that, more that their current drivers are not performing as well as some others.

Turkington took 34 races to get his first win in BTCC.
Jordan took 75 races. Jordan's second season saw him in the previous season's championship winning car, and one of his teammates took 5 wins to his nil.
Cammish is Jack Sears title holder, in his second season in a new car, with two wins to his name already.

One win in 77 races for Plato - 5 wins in 77 for Neal currently.

Things are not as dire as is being made out - just that there is a greater level of competition and the current drivers are falling marginally short of what is needed to challenge for honours.

porsche962fan · 16 May 2019, 11:29 (Ref:3904102)

podcast with Colin Turkington , can be listen fo free

https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/o...club-talk-show

btccbloke · 16 May 2019, 11:41 (Ref:3904104)

Quote:

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

Cammish is Jack Sears title holder, in his second season in a new car, with two wins to his name already.

One win in 77 races for Plato - 5 wins in 77 for Neal currently.

What realistic competition did Cammish have for that trophy last year?

crmalcolm · 16 May 2019, 11:55 (Ref:3904108)

Quote:

Originally Posted by btccbloke

What realistic competition did Cammish have for that trophy last year?

Smiley, Butcher and Simpson (amongst others) were all eligible, so why should Cammish's result not have value?

btccbloke · 16 May 2019, 12:27 (Ref:3904114)

Quote:

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

Smiley, Butcher and Simpson (amongst others) were all eligible, so why should Cammish's result not have value?

eligible yes real competition no
Although yes the cars are designed to be equal, can you really compare a driver from the mighty Dynamics with a brand new manufacturer assisted car against drivers who may not have had such esteemed records in old equipment and for teams which had historically only really hit the podium steps a handful of times prior to 2018?

Come on if you really expected someone like Butcher in a haggard old MG (and granted he put in some decent performances towards the middle to end of the year), or Simpson who's best result prior to 2018 was some minor points placings now and then, to get better results over the season and to be challenging a multiple title winner in possibly the most successful team of all time in the series I think your pretending the series is a lot more evenly matched than it really is

His "Jack Sears" title of course has value, but if we were honest, Cammish in his brand new Honda Vs others in old equipment in teams with no pedigree is hardly a classic is it

S griffin · 16 May 2019, 14:09 (Ref:3904128)

Maybe we got so used to seeing TD Honda up there pretty much 9 weekends out of 10. Now the competition has closed up it's a lot harder to be up there all the time, which is no bad thing. Don't write them off yet

Sodemo · 16 May 2019, 15:32 (Ref:3904148)

I think this is Honda's circuit, however I think Subaru should be strong too.

Alfisti · 16 May 2019, 17:11 (Ref:3904176)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sodemo

I think this is Honda's circuit, however I think Subaru should be strong too.

Ash I think yes, sadly I don't think so for young Senna. I rate the lad, but I think it will take time to get the hang of that car. If he can at all. Only Ash and Colin have really shone in it.

crmalcolm · 16 May 2019, 17:34 (Ref:3904181)

Quote:

Originally Posted by btccbloke

Come on if you really expected someone like Butcher in a haggard old MG

Butcher's current car is just as old as his 2018 car - so the age of the car is not the issue. And his performance so far in 2019 shows that he could be a genuine competitor to Cammish.

Quote:

Originally Posted by btccbloke

Butcher [and] Simpson to be challenging a multiple title winner

Neal was not eligible for the JST - although Matt Simpson and Rory Butcher had multiple titles in other series prior to BTCC as did Cammish.

Quote:

Originally Posted by btccbloke

His "Jack Sears" title of course has value, but if we were honest, Cammish in his brand new Honda Vs others in old equipment in teams with no pedigree is hardly a classic is it

It's not a classic - but in terms of where the issues lie with Halfords Yuasa, it shows that he has potential but is still learning.

RS67 · 16 May 2019, 19:31 (Ref:3904207)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alfisti

Ash I think yes, sadly I don't think so for young Senna. I rate the lad, but I think it will take time to get the hang of that car. If he can at all. Only Ash and Colin have really shone in it.

Cole had a fairly good season in the car, or did I imagine him taking Pole at Rockingham and leading start to finish.

tux · 17 May 2019, 03:55 (Ref:3904267)

Why do the Porsches not come to Thruxton anymore? Too scary for the gentleman drivers?

Yes before anyone says it, i know the Porsches are often boring, im sorry.

crmalcolm · 17 May 2019, 05:07 (Ref:3904277)

Quote:

Originally Posted by tux

Why do the Porsches not come to Thruxton anymore? Too scary for the gentleman drivers?

They're on the package for Thruxton later in the year.

I guess that the entrants aren't interested in racing the same circuit twice, and prefer to spend their cash on a trip to Barcelona?

btccbloke · 17 May 2019, 05:50 (Ref:3904281)

Quote:

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

Butcher's current car is just as old as his 2018 car - so the age of the car is not the issue. And his performance so far in 2019 shows that he could be a genuine competitor to Cammish.

we are not talking about 2019, you said he was a genuine challenger in 2018 for the JST.
The car might be just as old but the MG was not as competitive as the Honda, The MG hadn't been competitive since about mid 2015, whilst the old shape civic has won something every year. AMD did a reasonable job but did not have the experience or money (and time was split with the audi) to rocket the car to the front again.

Quote:

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

Neal was not eligible for the JST - although Matt Simpson and Rory Butcher had multiple titles in other series prior to BTCC as did Cammish.

Who said Neal was in JST 2018??
Your missing my point that they were in teams which didn't have the same pedigree as Team Dynamics and Dan was pretty much guaranteed the title, Ollie Jackson virtually said this on another forum

Quote:

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

It's not a classic - but in terms of where the issues lie with Halfords Yuasa, it shows that he has potential but is still learning.

Your right they all count but i would value it more if he had to battle a bit more for it

To laud him based on winning a JST in a car from the best team on the grid vs some gentlemen drivers and inexperienced teams is like a player struggling to get in the Manchester United team, sitting on the bench in the cup final and being hailed as a great because he has a medal on his wall.

crmalcolm · 17 May 2019, 06:08 (Ref:3904282)

Quote:

Originally Posted by btccbloke

The car might be just as old but the MG was not as competitive as the Honda, The MG hadn't been competitive since about mid 2015, […]

Who said Neal was in JST 2018??

If not Neal, then who is the multiple title winner in the team you are referring to here?

Quote:

Originally Posted by btccbloke

Butcher [or] Simpson […]to be challenging a multiple title winner in possibly the most successful team of all time

And I still feel that with both the Honda and MG being the same age, then both Simpson and Butcher could be seen as viable competition for Cammish if the cars are still competitive a year later.

BLiTZ · 17 May 2019, 06:26 (Ref:3904284)

The AMD Civics have the TOCA engine, so they combine arguably the best NGTC chassis with decent straight line pace. On paper it's the best car, and has real opportunity to embarrass the FK8's. Historically, the package has shown that, Lloyd & Smith at Eurotech in 2017 and BTC Norlin in 2018. However, until now, they've never been piloted by drivers capable of going the distance and take the championship, Tordoff (with a rabbit's foot in hand) has the form to do the job.

S griffin · 17 May 2019, 07:55 (Ref:3904302)

Looks like AMD are the new Eurotech. Cook is up there, but the picture is slightly skewed by the mixed conditions at Brands

Alfisti · 17 May 2019, 11:07 (Ref:3904329)

Quote:

Originally Posted by RS67

Cole had a fairly good season in the car, or did I imagine him taking Pole at Rockingham and leading start to finish.

No, you definitely did not imagine that. He had the occasional good performance - Croft and Knockhill come to mind too - but on the whole struggled. Ditto JP.

I was sad to see James not continuing at Motorbase to be honest. Nice lad and more than capable consistently scoring points.

tux · 17 May 2019, 14:02 (Ref:3904350)

Quote:

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

They're on the package for Thruxton later in the year.

I guess that the entrants aren't interested in racing the same circuit twice, and prefer to spend their cash on a trip to Barcelona?

Thats a great point, i forgot that there are 2 meetings at Thruxton this year, im sorry sir.

VIVA GT · 17 May 2019, 14:34 (Ref:3904355)

I see that the Mini Se7ens and Miglia's are supporting the BTCC this weekend. They should be good races to watch!

S griffin · 17 May 2019, 15:23 (Ref:3904365)

Yes, Minis at Thruxton are an excellent combination. Expect long slipstreaming packs

Alfisti · 17 May 2019, 17:12 (Ref:3904371)

I'm going to stick my neck out and tip Sam for a win this weekend. R1 from the front row.

Evantra · 17 May 2019, 17:28 (Ref:3904372)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alfisti

I'm going to stick my neck out and tip Sam for a win this weekend. R1 from the front row.

I assume you mean Tordoff and not Osborne!

Hard to say around Thruxton, seems to be a circuit that suits pretty much every car bar the Subarus. Think I agree with you about Tordoff though.

pimmy · 18 May 2019, 15:10 (Ref:3904520)

Tordoff & Cammish on the front row.

porsche962fan · 18 May 2019, 16:07 (Ref:3904526)

but Turks and Jordan behind them.... and no surprise if one of them leads by first corner

tux · 18 May 2019, 22:34 (Ref:3904578)

Rain forecast for tomorrow though.

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