Grp C/Grp A/V8SC 'Where are they now?' continued...

[William Dale Jr]

Of the two Marlboro VKs, the story as issued in one of the Brock magazines was that it was definitely the 05 car that went to John Cleland and has now been returned to Australia and restored and appeared at the Sandown 500 a couple of years ago. The 25 car was renumbered as 05 and has resided in the Bathurst museum all these years.

The car that sat atop the roof at Watson's was, IIRC, the 82/83 Bathurst winner, although there were a couple of different stories about where the 25 car had gone after it left the HDT. One was that it was sold to Harris, the other was that it was sold to Jim Keogh. In any event, it was the Harris car that was on top of a building. That car has been restored and took it's place in the parade of Holden Bathurst-winning Commodores that they had before the 1000 a couple of years ago, but it's been restored to the 82 livery with the 83 bodykit.

EDIT: On the Roadways VK, there was a story in Australian Muscle Car a few issues ago; the car was found in the corner at Re-Car in Melbourne - complete and unmolested - in average condition but in the exact same configuration as it had finished its last race in 1984. It even had the 'Roadways Racing' wheel covers!

[William Dale Jr]

Actually, ignore everything after the first paragraph of my last post. Really should check my sources before I post, but there you go. After reading through the various magazines, here's what I've found:

- The Roadways car that was unearthed was the #36 car, the VH not the VK. I haven't found anything about the VK's whereabouts.

- The car that sat atop a Holden dealership was Brock's 1983 #05 car, the car that failed early on at Sandown and Bathurst. An article in Unique Cars says that the car had only done two races, but I thought this car did the 1984 ATCC as well as the Silastic 300 and Pepsi 250? Peter Champion bought this car and has had it restored.

- The 1982/3 Bathurst-winner was sold to Andrew Harris, who used the car throughout 1984. The car spent some time in the Norwell Museum before it was sold to Peter Champion. In that same Unique Cars article, Champion is quoted as saying the car, "is how it finished the race" which I don't understand, because it's wearing the 1982 #05 Marlboro livery, but has the late-1983 flares and spoilers.

- The 1980 Bathurst-winning VC was the car that went to Jim Keogh, who ran it throughout 1983 and '84. According to a letter in Australian Muscle Car, this car has been purchased and is being restored to its Bathurst-winning state.

[Crowestar]

Originally Posted by William Dale Jr

- The 1980 Bathurst-winning VC was the car that went to Jim Keogh, who ran it throughout 1983 and '84. According to a letter in Australian Muscle Car, this car has been purchased and is being restored to its Bathurst-winning state.

Does that include the half a front spoiler after his collision with the Country Dealer Team Gemini?

[Falcadore]

The spoiler had been jettisoned previously while battling the Nine Camaro I had thought...

[adz_34]

A lot of confusion there if anyone knows the definitive where abouts of the 86 brock/moffat vk i am very interested in aquiring it.
and yes guys acording to mr p. brock 05 did go overseas to john cleland no. 25 was renumbered 05 and has been on display pretty much since the last group c race in 84. of course the museum director believes its the original 05 car though.

[MHDT]

Originally Posted by adz_34

A lot of confusion there if anyone knows the definitive where abouts of the 86 brock/moffat vk i am very interested in aquiring it.

Please see my post on page 1. My source is very credible, and it is chassis #14 that you seek. Contact Noonz1 if you're serious, as I have provided him with relevant contact details.

[racer69]

Wasn't the Roadways VK from Sandown/Bathurst 1984 rebuilt to Group A specs and used as the #26 Grice/Cullen 1985 car, which Grice with the Lusty's crashed at Castrol Curve?


Farrell got quite a few Brock cars over the years didn't he.

I recall in 1987 at the ATCC round, he trotted a (as WSJnr has already said) #52 Mobil Statewide Oil VL Commodore in '86 HDT livery out for races in the Street Sedan class, the Sports Sedan class, as well as the ATCC race as well. Were these cars all one in the same (with the appropriate tyres fitted for the Street Sedan race), or 3 different cars?

[Sultan]

I think you're right about the roadways Cp C/A car.

[Crowestar]

Originally Posted by Falcadore

The spoiler had been jettisoned previously while battling the Nine Camaro I had thought...

I think your thinking of the battle they had in 1981 when the back wheel arch of Brock's car was dislodged by Bartlett's car early in the race.

[Camaroz]

84 MHDT VK's. Someone is playing with the truth here. All records of the time say that the 05 VK donated to the museum was the actual race car. I have even heard that Holden paid for it to be donated but that is just a rumour. Stories that they swapped the doors on the cars is a bit farscial because there has been no mention of the roof number being changed. Again stories that the rear view mirror on the Bathurst museum car is not the way the 05 car ran at Bathurst doesn't swing because the 25 car didn't run a VK type rear view mirror either! Who lied to the Bathurst museum?
Farrell ran the 25 MHDT VK in WA as number 52 (wonder why not 50?)! Was this his favorite number or just the 25 number reversed? In all the articles about Clelland getting the VK in the UK, there have been no references to it being an ex-Bathurst winner! 'Champion Mining' logo's appear on the front guards of some Team Brock cars.

Unless someone owns up to dudding the Bathurst Museum, 05 is in Bathurst, 25 is in Mt Isa.

Roadways VK. Converted to Group A as Yokohama test car then sold to Tony Kavich and run as Yellow Pages car. Currently in private hands awaiting resto to Group C. Cullen VK Group C was converted to Group A and was the car the crashed with Grice on board up the top when Grice got involved in John Lusty's crash.

There were only 3 Group C cars converted to Group A. Roadways VK, Cullens VK and Keoghs (originally MHDT VC) VH.

This is a list I got hold of a couple of years ago.

Of the seven Marlboro HDT Commodores built, at this stage only five can be accounted for. As follows,

Car 1. 1980 VB/VC.
1980 VB, Brock ATTC (1st)
1980 VB, Endurance Champs, Adelaide – Harvey (2nd),
VC, Sandown – Moffat (3rd) Bathurst - Harvey/Harrop (DNF)
1981 ATCC Benson-Brown and Larry Perkins.
1981 Benson-Brown/Rogers Bathurst (4th)
Car in 81 ‘Big’ Bathurst Crash. Rebuilt*.
(*some suggestion re-bodied but not from reliable source or can be substantiated)
1982 Benson-Brown – Some ATCC.
1982 Benson-Brown/Charlie O’Brien. Bathurst.
1983 Benson-Brown/Garry Rogers – Some ATCC
1983 Benson-Brown/Garry Rogers Bathurst.
1984 Purchased by Jim Keogh. 2nd Northern Territory/FoxFM Car
1984 Sandown. Wayne Clift/Bernie Stack/Jim Keogh.
1984 Bathurst. Wayne Clift/Bernie Stack.
1984. Sold as Roller. Whereabouts unknown at this stage.

Car 2. 1980 VB/VC.
1980 VB, Endurance Champs, Adelaide - Brock (1st)
VC, Sandown – Brock (1st) Bathurst – Brock/Richards (1st).
1981 Brock ATCC. (2nd)
1981 Endurance Champs, Adelaide – Harvey (2nd), CRC 300, Amaroo Park – Brock/Harvey (1st), Sandown - Harvey/Schuppan (4th) Bathurst – Harvey/Schuppan (crashed)
1983 VH, Keogh ATCC, AMSCAR, Endurance Champs,
1983 Bathurst – Keogh/Leonard (6th).
1984 VH, Keogh ATCC, AMSCAR, Endurance Champs,
1984 Bathurst – Keogh/Shiel (DNF).
1985 VK Grp A. Keogh most ATCC Rounds.
1985 VK Grp A, Ellis/McClure. Sandown and Bathurst (DNF).
1986 VK Grp A, Ellis. Selected ATCC Rounds.
1986 VK Grp A, Ellis/Baily, Sandown (DNF) and Bathurst (16th)
1987 VK Grp A. Ellis. Selected ATCC Rounds.
(Last race, ATCC – Sandown June 7th 1987, DNF)
1987 – 2003. Storage
2003 Restoration started back to VC 1980 Group C Spec.

Car 3. 1981 VC/VH.
1981 VC, Endurance Champs, Adelaide – Brock (1st)
Sandown – Brock (1st) Bathurst - Brock/Richards (22nd) Surfers Paradise* – Brock (2nd).
* Brock first across the line but penalised 1 min for push start.
1982 Brock ATTC (5th), Brock & Harvey Selected AMSCAR Races.
1982 CRC 300, Amaroo Park – Perkins/Scott (4th)
1982 VH, Endurance Champs. Sandown - Harvey/Scott (4th) Bathurst – Harvey/Scott (3rd)
1983 (?) VH Show Car
1984 Lusty Family. ATCC, Endurance Champs, Bathurst.
1985 (Sold to southern NSW as rolling chassis, whereabouts unknown at this stage)

Car 4. 1982 VH.
1982 Endurance Champs, Sandown – Brock (DNF)
Bathurst – Brock/Perkins (1st) Adelaide – Brock (2nd)
1983 Brock ATTC (3rd)
1983 Endurance Champs, Amaroo Park – Brock/Perkins (2nd) Sandown – Harvey/(Phil Brock)/Brock. (3rd – Disq)
1983 Harvey/Brock/Perkins (Phil Brock) Bathurst (1st)
1983 Endurance Champs. Adelaide - Harris/Cooke (5th)
1984 Harris, ATCC, Endurance Champs.
1985 Wayne Clift.
2002 Peter Champion

Car 5. 1983 VH
1983 Endurance Champs, Sandown - Brock/Perkins (DNF) Bathurst - Brock/Perkins (DNF) Adelaide – Brock (1st)
1984 Brock ATTC* (2nd)
*Harvey subbed for Brock at Surfers Paradise and Lakeside rounds.
1984 Endurance Champs, Amaroo Park – Brock (DNF, Crash) Oran Park – Harvey/Parsons (DNF)
“Watson’s Display Car” (TBC).
2003 Peter Champion.

Car 6. 1984 VK
1984 Endurance Champs, Sandown Brock/Perkins (1st) Bathurst - Brock/Perkins (1st) Surfers Paradise - Brock, (1st), Calder AGP Supports – Brock (2nd)
1985 Donated to the Bathurst Museum

Car 7. 1984 VK
1984 Endurance Champs, Sandown - Harvey/Parsons (3rd)
Bathurst - Harvey/Parsons (2nd) Surfers Paradise – Harvey (6th), Calder AGP Supports – Harvey (4th).
1985 Farrell (WA) and then the UK
2001 Willy Van Wersch (Benalla)
2002 Peter Champion.

Any further info out there?

[rdmdog]

Very thorough, does that match up with your info Noonz?

I do remember reading about a "Street Machine" Commodore that the owner had claimed was an Ex HDT Bathurst Winner. IIRC it was painted white and retained the body kit, and the correct manifold and carbs. Was registered in Vic!! Love to try and register that now!!

My older magazines are gone now so unfortunately I wont be looking for the mag it was in. I think the owner had a Mullet though!

[Senna05]

I am truely confused and dismayed now, with this disintergration of info about the Museum #05.....

I remember from when i was 6 or 7, someone at the museum telling me it was the harvey car re-sprayed.....

And, to be honest, all the reccolections sound like they are bulletproof..... Maybe the next time one of us is in the principality of Panorama, we should get a VIN/Engine number, if possible?

[Senna05]

Originally Posted by Crowestar

I think your thinking of the battle they had in 1981 when the back wheel arch of Brock's car was dislodged by Bartlett's car early in the race.

81, Lap 3 or 4, the guard came off with a small touch with the Greens Tuff Falcon up Mountain Straight. Brock, inside, Johnson on the outside. The Commodore snaked sideways and they rubbed, from memory (I atched the DVD 4 minutes ago)

[Camaroz]

I do remember reading about a "Street Machine" Commodore that the owner had claimed was an Ex HDT Bathurst Winner. IIRC it was painted white and retained the body kit, and the correct manifold and carbs. Was registered in Vic!! Love to try and register that now!![/I]


Possibly an article in Commodore Power, Autumn 1991. This car was later determined to be one of the "show cars" (5 apparently) and was recently sold (2003) to a Brock Commodore collector.

[rdmdog]

Might have even been before that, did have one photo of the car laying a HUGE burnout, and I think it was a VC, or at least had a VC grille.

[one five five]

Originally Posted by Senna05

81, Lap 3 or 4, the guard came off with a small touch with the Greens Tuff Falcon up Mountain Straight. Brock, inside, Johnson on the outside. The Commodore snaked sideways and they rubbed, from memory (I atched the DVD 4 minutes ago)

I'm not sure what DVD you were watching

Brock and Bartlett came together on the approach to Griffins Bend. Johnson (In the Tru-Blu Falcon) was following in third ahead of Bob Morris who was a few seconds back.

#05 and #25 VKs - One would think it would be fairly easy to tell which one was which, or have the log books gone missing? Why was there big song and dance at Sandown in '03 about Brock being re-united with his Bathurst winner, Brock would know wouldn't he?

[Noonz1]

The HDT car records pretty much match up with the info that I have managed to gain over the last few years - then you count the numbers through from the Gp A spec cars thru to the last VL produced by Brock's mob in 1987.

[paydirt]

Ahhh...so is the car in the Bathurst Museum the real deal or what ?

[groupnxu1]

I always thought that the Brock 05 VK from 1985( the one they kicked the screens out of) was then converted to the Harvey #3 car for 1986 and then became the # 6 VK in 1987, Due to Brock/Moffat 05 being writen off by Scott in 1987 # 6 VK was then updated to VL spec and campained the Sandown 500 with Crompton and Crooke due to the VL # 10 that later won Bathurst not being back from O/S.

Sandown 87 # 6 VK/VL then ended up in WA and came back to melbourne many years ago sporting a Pink and Black paint scheme and Walkinshaw body kit and is owned by the same person as the Rothmans VL and awaiting resto, i was led to believe that this was Chassis # 13.

I also remember that at the Jagparts auction in the early 90's that there was a VK shell sitting outside with a very bent front end did have the distinctive HDT roll cage design and as i can personally account for the whereabouts of the majority of the HDT customer Built cars and shells it would possibly make sence that it may have been the Brock/Moffat shell.

[William Dale Jr]

Originally Posted by Henry

...what became of the Grice/Harrington VK at the end of 1984?

Was looking through the 1985 Great Race book and it says that the Grice/Harrington VK from 1984 was converted to Group A specifications by Roadways and was then sold to Tony Kavich, who went on to use it in Yellow Pages colours in 1985, '86 and '87. I have a feeling this shell might have been used for Kavich's AUSCAR, because the VL he used in 1988 was brand new.

[Camaroz]

Tony sold the VK Group A and built his VK AUSCAR out of a road car.

[Sultan]

Originally Posted by groupnxu1

I always thought that the Brock 05 VK from 1985( the one they kicked the screens out of) was then converted to the Harvey #3 car for 1986 and then became the # 6 VK in 1987, Due to Brock/Moffat 05 being writen off by Scott in 1987 # 6 VK was then updated to VL spec and campained the Sandown 500 with Crompton and Crooke due to the VL # 10 that later won Bathurst not being back from O/S.

Sandown 87 # 6 VK/VL then ended up in WA and came back to melbourne many years ago sporting a Pink and Black paint scheme and Walkinshaw body kit and is owned by the same person as the Rothmans VL and awaiting resto, i was led to believe that this was Chassis # 13.

I also remember that at the Jagparts auction in the early 90's that there was a VK shell sitting outside with a very bent front end did have the distinctive HDT roll cage design and as i can personally account for the whereabouts of the majority of the HDT customer Built cars and shells it would possibly make sence that it may have been the Brock/Moffat shell.

In '85 didn't Gerald Kay (of Jagparts fame) order a customer VK from HDT??? At the time there were many grumbles as all the paying customers coudn't get a hold of the 5 speed Getrag 'boxes (homologated with the 4.9 litre - less min. weight) & had to use the earlier spec 4 speed (homologated with 5.0 litre, therefore over the 4999cc weight limit)

Also, wasn't the French/Grant '85 car, (became the '86 Dulux car) HDT built?

[groupnxu1]

HDT Customer cars included:

Gerald Kay Jagparts car ( car is still as it left the track after its last race in 1989)

Ray Smith Auckland coin bullion car, later sold to Graeme Crosby last Group A race 1988 had various drivers for a few rounds after Crosby sold it in 1987
car restored in 1993 to the Bob Jane T-marts colours of Croz in 1986 and now being prepared for Historics.

Alf Grant car was written off in the fire ball crash at lakeside 89 i think.


The Steve Masterton VK was also a joint HDT and Pat Percel built car ( car still exists in NSW and has been running in Group C/A meetings


The Tony Mulvihill car was also meant to be a HDT Chassis.

Of the cars mentioned the Gerald Kay, Ray Smith and Alf Grant cars all had the identical roll cages to the Mobil Cars the Jagparts car had later additions of front stut bracing same as the Roadways built cars.

The Graham Moore car was the ex 1985 # 7 VK i believe this car is now in the Brock/Moffat colors with the full 1986 Color scheme and Body kit and is owned by a well known Brock collector in Queensland.


Does any body know what the history is with the NZ Greater finance VK with the alloy cage that Brock ran in NZ in early 85?

[William Dale Jr]

Originally Posted by groupnxu1

Alf Grant car was written off in the fire ball crash at lakeside 89 i think.

The crash at the ATCC meeting that year? The only Commodore involved in that was the Lusty VL they built themselves, and then there was Terry Finnigan's VL that went in at the kink earlier in the week, but that was built by Terry.

AFAIK, the Alf Grant car went to Craig Kinmonth in 1988, and was used by Kinmonth at the final AMSCAR round and at Bathurst, where the car was involved in a practice accident with Larry Perkins and Tony Kavich's parked VL and subsequently didn't qualify. For some reason, I keep linking Rick Scarf with this VK for 1989, or was his car the ex-Moore HDT car?

[Henry]

I thought I had read that the Auckland Gold Bullion car first run by Ray Smith (later campagined by Graeme Crosby after a heap of livery changes) was a Larry Perkins car... maybe he freshened it at the end of 1985...