IMSA: 2020

[carbsmith]

They run every week and terribly. They haven't announced which car they intend to use for IMSA, although it's as likely as anything they'll pay someone to run that for them too.

The team started in sports cars with John Ware, they ran tube frame SCCA/IMSA cars in the 80s before Rick got into NASCAR, and they've been around occasionally still since. But it's 100% rent a rides to pay for the Ware family (these days Cody) to race operation. The press release is almost painful to read, it's straight up saying they think they can find more seat buyers this way.

[broadrun96]

I thought it felt a bit like an optimistic approach and probably a bit clueless when they said stuff like "We have run many drivers from overseas in the past, but with the interest of the Asian Le Mans Series I believe it will be the catalyst for continuing our open door policy for drivers and sponsors to also be part of the NASCAR model." Open door policy for drivers, meaning your cash opens the door?

[JLGarcia]

Originally Posted by carbsmith

They run every week and terribly.

I believe one of their cars was parked (or at least threatened w/ being parked) for running too slow yesterday. A likely preview of what's to come, assuming they ever make it to the IMSA grid.

They haven't announced which car they intend to use for IMSA, although it's as likely as anything they'll pay someone to run that for them too.

That's funny.

[MaskedRacer]

Originally Posted by carbsmith

They run every week and terribly. They haven't announced which car they intend to use for IMSA, although it's as likely as anything they'll pay someone to run that for them too.

The team started in sports cars with John Ware, they ran tube frame SCCA/IMSA cars in the 80s before Rick got into NASCAR, and they've been around occasionally still since. But it's 100% rent a rides to pay for the Ware family (these days Cody) to race operation. The press release is almost painful to read, it's straight up saying they think they can find more seat buyers this way.

Hope this does not materialize. Don't need an LMP2 field filler. Its a different story if they want to come in and run in GTD though. Should look at that route.

[MaskedRacer]

The recent Marshall Pruett/Stephen Kilby podcast was interesting. Thoughts on some topics brought up:

1. I can for sure see Pratt & Miller Corvette and R.L.L. BMW change some drivers. The #4 car especially. Mueller, Hand, and Priaux are all former BMW drivers. Could see Westbrook and Briscoe move to P&M. Oliver Gavin just does not have it anymore. Tommy Milner is too mistake prone.

2. An all GT race in Portland. Sign me up. Laguna Seca is great, but the crowds are not there and maybe it can host an all proto race there still. For Portland. A 4 hour race with GTLM, GTD, and bring in GS too, running with the last hour transitioning to night. Bring those crazy Portland Timber fans to an auto race.

3. Baltimore was a cool venue. Did not get the respect it deserved. The racing there was certainly unique. For ALMS the gaps between the classes was very close even with LMP1. Imagine if you had a race with GTLM vs DP/P2 there between 2014-2016. The GTLM's could have won overall there (in dry). But yeah in one year the winning Falken Porsche was 4th overall just a few seconds back of the winning prototype. Corvette led overall very late in the 2013 race.

[JLGarcia]

Originally Posted by MaskedRacer

Hope this does not materialize. Don't need an LMP2 field filler. Its a different story if they want to come in and run in GTD though. Should look at that route.

Given this team's history, I don't think choice of class is going to make much difference in its performance.

[broadrun96]

Originally Posted by MaskedRacer

Hope this does not materialize. Don't need an LMP2 field filler. Its a different story if they want to come in and run in GTD though. Should look at that route.

Originally Posted by MaskedRacer

The recent Marshall Pruett/Stephen Kilby podcast was interesting. Thoughts on some topics brought up:

1. I can for sure see Pratt & Miller Corvette and R.L.L. BMW change some drivers. The #4 car especially. Mueller, Hand, and Priaux are all former BMW drivers. Could see Westbrook and Briscoe move to P&M. Oliver Gavin just does not have it anymore. Tommy Milner is too mistake prone.

2. An all GT race in Portland. Sign me up. Laguna Seca is great, but the crowds are not there and maybe it can host an all proto race there still. For Portland. A 4 hour race with GTLM, GTD, and bring in GS too, running with the last hour transitioning to night. Bring those crazy Portland Timber fans to an auto race.

3. Baltimore was a cool venue. Did not get the respect it deserved. The racing there was certainly unique. For ALMS the gaps between the classes was very close even with LMP1. Imagine if you had a race with GTLM vs DP/P2 there between 2014-2016. The GTLM's could have won overall there (in dry). But yeah in one year the winning Falken Porsche was 4th overall just a few seconds back of the winning prototype. Corvette led overall very late in the 2013 race.

The more I read about RWR the more suspicious I become that this will ever materialize. If dedicated sportscar teams have a hard time filling rent a ride seats how will this new team magically make it work?

1. It does seem like Corvette is due for a change but is that because they are extra loyal and thus makes it hard to release guys? But with the new car will they want some mid-engine guys in the fold to get the feedback on the tires and how they work best? There will be a few Ford guys left out in the cold and P&M has shown they want to win and win soon.

2. While a GT only, and extended GT only fest with GT4 in the field too, would be great I think it would be a hard sell unless is around Laguna to save on travel. But it would NEVER be an enduro length event, it would have to be a sprint to accommodate the budgets of GTD and would probably result in them being dropped somewhere else on the calendar.

3. Baltimore was fun but apparently cost the city a TON of money, and they have no money left right now. It was a great mix of how long the different classes could go on a stint and worked out with weird overlaps. But also the scene of an understandable but still vile screw job on Oryx Racing (I think that was the name) when Dyson wanted them to slow and let them by to sew up the season championships.

[broadrun96]

Seems like Dagys thinks Core and the "Nissan" DPi project will be done after this season. The usual denials from the boss but rumors of his retirement from full time racing would make their entire reason for running the prototype project vanish. I wouldn't be surprised to hear they'd been shopping for a replacement who would just need to find it and the team is still in place but no offers came in and they also had to close up this side of the business. Shouldn't impact the Porsche program as that's factory funded.

https://sportscar365.com/imsa/iwsc/c...e-in-jeopardy/

And the usual someone is jumping ship in GTD too. Although Acura does seem to have a good relationship with their teams so it has to be an easier sell. Think Starworks could try to change manufacturers and come back for 2020?

https://sportscar365.com/imsa/iwsc/h...gt3-customers/

[chernaudi]

Racer now reporting the Core leaving DPI rumors. Wouldn't surprise me since Nissan has next to nothing to do with it besides selling engines and being a decal on the Ligier.

[Akrapovic]

IMSA needs to be very careful not to follow WECs path here. With Acura and Mazda not selling customer cars yet, the reliance is on Caddy to build, sell and support all the customer cars. The LMP2 class got the same treatment as LMP1-P, with the feeling of "eh, we don't really want you, but here's a class that's not great to run in" being pretty prominent.

I think IMSA is smart enough not to follow WECs path, but there are certainly parallels going forward. 3 manufacturers, limited customer cars, and no place else for privateers to go.

[broadrun96]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

IMSA needs to be very careful not to follow WECs path here. With Acura and Mazda not selling customer cars yet, the reliance is on Caddy to build, sell and support all the customer cars. The LMP2 class got the same treatment as LMP1-P, with the feeling of "eh, we don't really want you, but here's a class that's not great to run in" being pretty prominent.

I think IMSA is smart enough not to follow WECs path, but there are certainly parallels going forward. 3 manufacturers, limited customer cars, and no place else for privateers to go.

Yeah, I'm hoping things were lost in by the sources about Penske not wanting to allow other Acuras in 2020. Think the deal was exclusivity through this season and someone apparently had asked and were politely rebuffed. Hope something was lost about the exclusive being through 2020 and they weren't ok with early sales. Hopefully Mazda will allow someone else to run a car now that it seems to be sorted but no rumors to that effect yet.

[TF110]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

IMSA needs to be very careful not to follow WECs path here. With Acura and Mazda not selling customer cars yet, the reliance is on Caddy to build, sell and support all the customer cars. The LMP2 class got the same treatment as LMP1-P, with the feeling of "eh, we don't really want you, but here's a class that's not great to run in" being pretty prominent.

I think IMSA is smart enough not to follow WECs path, but there are certainly parallels going forward. 3 manufacturers, limited customer cars, and no place else for privateers to go.

I don't think that example correlates here but there is some likeness. Private/non-hybrid lmp1's always had a weight and power advantage, even before their upgrades in 2018. The thing is, the ACO said NO MANUFACTURER's could make a non-hybrid lmp1. Porsche and Audi spending f1-level money didn't help either. Only a couple teams bit, namely Rebellion and ByKolles. Not to criticize them, but they aren't on Toyota, Audi and Porsche level regardless of how many breaks you give them.

But I do agree with you about here in IMSA. Imo, they already have been on the same track. No manufacturers in lmp1-light, non-manufacturers excluded from DPi. Separation of lmp1-h/lmp1-L class, separation of DPi and lmp2 class. Big manufacturers/teams not giving their lmp1 to smaller ones. Big manufacturer(s) not giving/selling their DPi to smaller teams (Penske Acura, Mazda).

All this time we were being fed stories about how DPi is this sustainable, great and cheap alternative to lmp1's huge budgets, that there were all these manufacturers lined up... But here we are and there's no expansion or new entries as in types of DPi on the horizon, there's teams ready to leave, single make teams and only one customer chassis.

Both DPi2022 and hypercar are supposed to be the next big thing, but I don't see either of them being subscribed to more than what we have now. Ford may or may not join DPi. Overseas, Aston Martin is supposed to use a Valkyrie or 4 but their financial situation is not good to say the least.

I try to stay positive and upbeat, but I'm having a tough time looking for positives in terms of variety and new makes in either major endurance series. I hope the wec and imsa come together sooner than later and merge their top prototype class at least to 95% the same. Maybe then teams and manufacturers will see a reason to enter both or either so they can contest the biggest endurance races including LM24.

[canaglia]

why don't just introduce a rule to force DPi manufacturers to put on sale at least 2 cars used in the past season at a maximum price?
private teams can get their "affordable" cars, official teams will compete with the most updated specs.

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by canaglia

why don't just introduce a rule to force DPi manufacturers to put on sale at least 2 cars used in the past season at a maximum price?
private teams can get their "affordable" cars, official teams will compete with the most updated specs.

Forces manufacturers to also become support crews, not just race teams. Mazda certainly don’t have the ability to do that right now. If that’s a rule then it’s another negative for signing up for DPi during a time when it’s not growing as quickly as we all hoped it would.

There is/was a perfectly usable class for privateers to use. It’s LMP2. If they want privateers back then being LMP2 back into play.

Akrapovic understands that the reality is that TenTenths editor witnessed an exclusive story from Sportscar 365 that a Ford DPi from a unnamed Romanian manufacturer is due to be announced soon. L-Sep.

[carbsmith]

The only thing that made DPi "sustainable" (which is I would say one of the two or three worst buzzwords in motorsport today) was being able to fill fields with LMP2 cars which were all but guaranteed to remain available because of being dedicated customer cars used at Le Mans. As soon as they split the classes it became just another American sports car racing top category perpetually teetering on the edge of collapse at any given moment based on the whims of one or two competitors. Imagine if GM decided to pull out of sports car racing right now. The entire pro component of the series would be torpedoed overnight.

[joeb]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

Forces manufacturers to also become support crews, not just race teams. Mazda certainly don’t have the ability to do that right now. If that’s a rule then it’s another negative for signing up for DPi during a time when it’s not growing as quickly as we all hoped it would.

There is/was a perfectly usable class for privateers to use. It’s LMP2. If they want privateers back then being LMP2 back into play.

Akrapovic understands that the reality is that TenTenths editor witnessed an exclusive story from Sportscar 365 that a Ford DPi from a unnamed Romanian manufacturer is due to be announced soon. L-Sep.

Mazda may not be able to support prototype customers, but they have lots of experience providing services to Miata owners around the world. Also, the prototype supplier and support would come from Multimatic and they are probably up for it.

[TF110]

I doubt Mazda will do customers for their current DPi. I think at best we can hope for another two-car team using the 'Acura' DPi. Maybe a year before DPi 2022 or whatever they call it. If not that maybe someone will pick up the Ligier Nissan.

[canaglia]

Originally Posted by TF110

I doubt Mazda will do customers for their current DPi. I think at best we can hope for another two-car team using the 'Acura' DPi. Maybe a year before DPi 2022 or whatever they call it. If not that maybe someone will pick up the Ligier Nissan.

well... it's about the meaning of the words: customers program.
As far I know, GM sells cadillac DPi to the teams, leases them 4-5 engines per car a year, after that... a handshake and a good luck is basically their only customers support

recall last year SoD struggled to fix their cadillac DPi and asked to AXR for help and assistance.


Mazda should just do the same... they're running 2019 specs this season?
just bring 2018 chassis out the warehouse and sell or lease them to requesting teams.

[broadrun96]

Originally Posted by canaglia

well... it's about the meaning of the words: customers program.
As far I know, GM sells cadillac DPi to the teams, leases them 4-5 engines per car a year, after that... a handshake and a good luck is basically their only customers support

recall last year SoD struggled to fix their cadillac DPi and asked to AXR for help and assistance.


Mazda should just do the same... they're running 2019 specs this season?
just bring 2018 chassis out the warehouse and sell or lease them to requesting teams.

But how would selling the old chassis that wasn't really any good for keeping engines around do anything good for Mazda? They couldn't make it to the end of the race more often then not with the factory team, why would we think another team would be any better?

[canaglia]

Originally Posted by broadrun96

But how would selling the old chassis that wasn't really any good for keeping engines around do anything good for Mazda? They couldn't make it to the end of the race more often then not with the factory team, why would we think another team would be any better?

I wrote about old chassis indeed (AKA the whole car without drivetrain). Engine leasing is another story, don't think AER will have issues to make more 2019/current specs engines if there is someone who pays for.


I'm quite sure that some of JCD-Miller and Juncos cadillac dpi are old AXR/WTR chassis, since they are the only GM teams who can buy new and updated chassis year by year.... so there's really nothing new or unusual about that... old chassis + 2019 GM engine leasing.

IMSA just should make this a mandatory rule for all manufacturers involved.

[chernaudi]

For what it's worth, SC365 is reporting that Magnus Racing may shut down or scale back involvement in IMSA at the end of the season.

Just like rumors of Core pulling out of DPI at least in part due to Jon Bennet retiring, Magnus owner John Potter rumored to be retiring from driving is suspected to be the reason for the shut down or scaling back.

[skycafe]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

For what it's worth, SC365 is reporting that Magnus Racing may shut down or scale back involvement in IMSA at the end of the season.

Just like rumors of Core pulling out of DPI at least in part due to Jon Bennet retiring, Magnus owner John Potter rumored to be retiring from driving is suspected to be the reason for the shut down or scaling back.

That would be a real bummer as Magnus adds so much entertainment to the series, plus being a great on-track performer.

[broadrun96]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

For what it's worth, SC365 is reporting that Magnus Racing may shut down or scale back involvement in IMSA at the end of the season.

Just like rumors of Core pulling out of DPI at least in part due to Jon Bennet retiring, Magnus owner John Potter rumored to be retiring from driving is suspected to be the reason for the shut down or scaling back.

Sadly I think it's NAEC at best and only if he finds another driver like himself who wants to run the car with less investment than starting his own program. Think Potter and company might be hitting the Porsche and Super Trofeo paddocks working them for stepping up to the 'big show' with a program already up and running and a crew who appears to know their car and stuff.

[MaskedRacer]

Only hear stuff about teams leaving IMSA in 2020. Not arriving. Mangus, CORE, Ford, Keating, JDC, Juncos, Perform Tech.

Might be a down year for IMSA in 2020 in terms of numbers at least. We'll see but regardless its not the end of the world. There have been down years before and recoveries after that. If the Daytona 24 is in the low 40's in grid size I think it will still be a great race worth watching.

[broadrun96]

Originally Posted by MaskedRacer

Only hear stuff about teams leaving IMSA in 2020. Not arriving. Mangus, CORE, Ford, Keating, JDC, Juncos, Perform Tech.

Might be a down year for IMSA in 2020 in terms of numbers at least. We'll see but regardless its not the end of the world. There have been down years before and recoveries after that. If the Daytona 24 is in the low 40's in grid size I think it will still be a great race worth watching.

That is sadly true, but we always seem to have the same couple top teams coming back thankfully. If we hear GM and Porsche rumblings, well then pack up the tent it's over folks.

I am hopeful teams can make the gap until DPi 2.0 gives the entire field a boost, if not in car count it may get the attention of others who have been on the fringe (owners, drivers, manufacturers, teams) to ride the new marketability of the series. Yes, it's kind of false marketing because they really aren't doing anything new or exciting and it's a spec part but marketing guys seem to spin anything and hybrid is the cool(ish) buzzword. And people still grow up, have kids and move to the suburbs, fewer than in the past but it still happens. Those people still need a car and while the ads may move from Car and Driver and TV to Instagram, Facebook Live (for as long as that behemoth lasts) or other social media, the advertising still remains and pictures/short clips of a car that says Acura, Hyundai, Mazda etc may be just what they need for the budget to run the car. Or maybe I'm being optimistic in finding a way for racing to survive.