Introduce additive to make flames visible

[Lee Janotta]

Originally posted by macdaddy
I don't have a long history as an F1 fan, so could somebody refresh my memory here? I've seen video of a spectacular pit fire, I presume from the early 90's. Who was that?

You mean this one?


That was Jos Verstappen in 1994 when he was with Bennetton. It was the first year that they brought back refueling, and the Bennetton team illegally modified the refueling rig to shorten their pitstops... It backfired and nearly got half the team killed, but thankfully the fire extinguishers were in ample supply and quickly used.

The big danger with an invisible flame isn't the guys in nomex over the wall... Was I the only one who saw that Mo Nunn crew member who jumped over the wall to help and then ran _through_ the fire? Training, filtered goggles... None of that would have prevented that particular dangerous situation.

[macdaddy]

Keeping the car in the air until the rig was clear would have prevented that!

Thanks for the info, Lee. That's the fire I was referring to.

[Valve Bounce]

Fires are dangerous, no matter where they occur, and I just think that an invisible fire could pose additional danger to those around. With invisible fires, how do you know there is a fire unless you see the poor guy squirming when he is getting burnt? We all know that fires are endemic in F1 racing. I cannot recollect a single F1 race where some car has not pulled up on the circuit with flames licking from the rear of the car. OK, the driver can see the car is on fire and he gets out pronto and runs away from the fire while fire marshalls run up with fire extinguishers. But what if the fire was invisible, and the driver is dazed from a slight collision with a side wall? How would fire marshalls know the car and perhaps the driver is on fire?
I am not advocating a change in fuels. I am just exploring the possibility of a chemical additive that would make the fires visible.

[Jay]

Like I said before, it's not 100% invisible (although it may appear that way on TV)..the flame is slightly visible (can be bluish at the base) and you can almost always see the heat haze. If someone really cares that much, why dont' you email Cart asking them why they haven't used some sort of an additive? I'm sure you'd get a straight answer.

[djb]

VB has a valid point, I've heard drivers talk of situations where they were driving along, felt some heat, and looked down to find their gloves turning brown.....

One would hope that this rather logical suggestion would have already been investigated if it was possible.

but then you never know.

[macdaddy]

When cars catch fire while ontrack, it usually involves either oil or bodywork, and the flames are usually quite visible. Methanol fires most often happen during refuelling. Everybody over the wall is quite aware of the signs to look for, as are everybody on the safety team. Although I agree that an additive could prove beneficial, I don't think it's extremely important. Their concerns are better placed on fire prevention. Because the "big ones" seem to only happen when a guy takes off from his pitbox too soon. Ala Kanaan.

[macdaddy]

It could even present a sponsor opportunity!
Imagine "This fire was brought under control by Crystal Springs bottled water. Now available at a supermarket near you!"

[Lee Janotta]

Y'know, we _could_ just give up on refuelling... Make drivers deal with a car that handles differently as the fuel load changes... Might make for some passing.

[Lee Janotta]

Y'know, we _could_ just give up on refuelling... Make drivers deal with a car that handles differently as the fuel load changes... Might make for some passing.

[djb]

Lee, you're getting old and dottery, beginning to repeat yourself...

good one father of Mac.

[bcobbus]

Given the violent nature of the huge crash at the start of the race in Surfer's Paradise, I was a bit concerned about a fire there for a little bit. Was I the only one who saw a marshal spraying with a hose Jimmy Vasser's overturned car with the driver still pinned inside! The reaction of Andretti and another driver to get Vasser out of the car as quickly as possable was also a bit concerning. I pray to God that we NEVER EVER see another incident like what happened to Roger Williamson in the 1973 Dutch GP.True that a lot has chanded since 1973, but seeing Vasser's car upside down with the frantic efforts to get him out was very unnerving to me.

Another aspect of the debate. The most messy and frequent pit stops that I see are in NASCAR. It seems that ever time they leave the pit box after refueling, gas gets splattered all over the rear of the car and the two gas men. Yet you don't see fires all that ofter in NASCAR?