The Current State of IndyCar

[FordCosworthPanoz]

Those 0.1 ratings should make Verizon excited.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by FordCosworthPanoz

The Dallara 'factory' is a joke whose only real American job creation has been a coffee shop that is the main attraction in it.

When Lola revealed their IndyCar concept, it also included an assembly facility in the USA.

http://www.lola-group.com/newsstory.asp?NewsId=190

The last paragraph has a quote from Martin Birrane.

“For Lola it is imperative that fans enjoy the cars and a great racing spectacle at trackside and on TV.”

The DW12 has produced some good racing compared with its predecessor but TV ratings are down and the car is aesthetically unpleasing.

[DS"]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

When you say football do you mean football as in NFL or as in Soccer?

Look at my flag.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by DS"

Look at my flag.

I did. The reason I asked is that Nike are already involved with the NFL.

[D.R.T.]

Originally Posted by HJJ

The kicker was Dallara building their facility in Speedway. That's what won the deal for them.

Which is fine, I guess my point is why aren't we making teams accountable for this current situation as well in regards to the aero kits?

Dallara or Lola wouldnt prevent us from being where we are today

[HJJ]

Originally Posted by D.R.T.

Which is fine, I guess my point is why aren't we making teams accountable for this current situation as well in regards to the aero kits?

The "League" said "NO" to aero-kits till Walker came on board (and it will be 2015 till they come on board). It has nothing to do with the teams. They thought they were saving teams money when in fact they were dumbing down the series and appeal to the casual fan. Which never got interested.

[D.R.T.]

Originally Posted by HJJ

The "League" said "NO" to aero-kits till Walker came on board (and it will be 2015 till they come on board). It has nothing to do with the teams. They thought they were saving teams money when in fact they were dumbing down the series and appeal to the casual fan. Which never got interested.

Indycar had them in the regulations for the beginning of 2012. The teams are the ones who held that up for 12 months initially and then the ongoing delays year on.

Walker set 2015 date - following owner protests.

Chevy, Honda and Indycar by my understanding all want Aero Kits - the sooner the better but obviously cant do it on their own.

http://www.crash.net/indycar/news/18...aero_kits.html

[HJJ]

Originally Posted by D.R.T.

Chevy, Honda and Indycar by my understanding all want Aero Kits - the sooner the better but obviously cant do it on their own.

http://www.crash.net/indycar/news/18...aero_kits.html

Sure they can, if they want to establish any kind of a brand in Indycar other than a spec series. But they better hurry because interest in fading.

http://www.racer.com/chevy-honda-pre...rticle/307749/

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by D.R.T.

Indycar had them in the regulations for the beginning of 2012. The teams are the ones who held that up for 12 months initially and then the ongoing delays year on.

Walker set 2015 date - following owner protests.

Chevy, Honda and Indycar by my understanding all want Aero Kits - the sooner the better but obviously cant do it on their own.

http://www.crash.net/indycar/news/18...aero_kits.html

Having read that article, I'm not surprised the teams want to delay aero-kits, if the initial cost of the DW12 has gone up from $385,000 to $600,000. Also teams have to buy replacement components from Dallara, which are more expensive than components from 3rd party suppliers.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by HJJ

Sure they can, if they want to establish any kind of a brand in Indycar other than a spec series. But they better hurry because interest in fading.

http://www.racer.com/chevy-honda-pre...rticle/307749/

Interesting article. Griffiths begs the question in the last paragraph,

“You could argue, if we look at it from purely a commercial reason for promoting aero kits and attempting to brand the cars with our own bodies, if we'd actually be better off taking all the money that we invested into aero kits and buy a better TV package. Would we actually get more exposure from that? It's something to think about, isn't it?”

But would a better TV package necessarily guarantee better TV ratings?

[HJJ]

Originally Posted by D.R.T.

http://www.crash.net/indycar/news/18...aero_kits.html

Not a relative article, it was written 16 months ago. Things/people/priorities (sponsors) change and TV ratings continue to fall.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by HJJ

Not a relative article, it was written 16 months ago. Things/people/priorities (sponsors) change and TV ratings continue to fall.

It's relevant in that shows how much the cost of the car has gone up and it highlights the replacement components issue.

[codename_47]

I think we have to understand the "the casual fan doesn't care about the looks" argument is a fallacy that just doesn't hold up.

I run the Birmingham outlet of the F1InPubs national gathering (all F1 races live in a pub, in a location near YOU ) and for the last 2 years after the Monaco GP we convinced the pub to also show the Indy 500 for those that wanted to stick around.
The first thing someone said last year when the intro started was "is THAT was the cars look like?" while pulling a face.
This included casual F1-only fans right up to dedicated fans who have attended races at all levels of the sport (including the Rockinham Champcar rounds...)

After someone crashed in the early goings the jokes were about how the impact with the wall might improve their looks.
And this was during 2012 when F1 was running the ugly stepped noses (and a lot of people commented how ugly those were too, but still with that design they looked ten times better)

It took me back to when I first saw Champcar nearly 15 years ago now, how I was captivated by the cars that looked like a meaner, better looking F1 car and how that grabbed my attention first before the great racing kept me watching.

Make the cars look better and you might at least have a potential new fan stick around to gaze at them for a few laps, and hopefully the good racing they're putting on at the moment will keep them and turn them into future hardcore

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by FordCosworthPanoz

The Dallara 'factory' is a joke whose only real American job creation has been a coffee shop that is the main attraction in it.

IRC we were spun in 2010 that there would be 50-80 jobs created and as I recall some state money was involved in making this "manufacturing plant" happen as well as the land being bought for a premium. A few people I talked to a few years ago when it was happening said it was about as sleazy as a deal it could be.

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

Having read that article, I'm not surprised the teams want to delay aero-kits, if the initial cost of the DW12 has gone up from $385,000 to $600,000. Also teams have to buy replacement components from Dallara, which are more expensive than components from 3rd party suppliers.

There used to be a cottage industry of suppliers in indianapolis that would turn out parts for cars and those are either out of business or diversified elsewhere into other businesses.

It's the same with the teams. Most teams now have to lay off a good part of their workforce after the season because there is nothing to do. No new parts to test, no new developments to test, no new chassis like they used to get every year that was a development of the previous model.

So the workforce for these teams is a mix of young inexperienced people looking to build a resume so they can get a "real job" in Nascar or oldsters that have already made their money/pension and are working the circuit for half the year to make some money and still stay involved while having some retirement time the rest of the year.

Once the season ends here shortly(whenever that is as I have no idea what the schedule is), the indy racing league will enter a black hole for the next 6 months with no news at all to report.

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

Interesting article. Griffiths begs the question in the last paragraph,

“You could argue, if we look at it from purely a commercial reason for promoting aero kits and attempting to brand the cars with our own bodies, if we'd actually be better off taking all the money that we invested into aero kits and buy a better TV package. Would we actually get more exposure from that? It's something to think about, isn't it?”

But would a better TV package necessarily guarantee better TV ratings?

I do think the looks is a problem with this car, but I think the big problem is the horsepower. These cars run 550hp and they are dumbed down to take the rent a drive driver from Europe that finished 23rd in the World Series by Renault.

Back years ago the horsepower was 900hp on average, the cars were hard to drive and not everyone could drive them well. But most important of all they were spectacular to watch.

So all the flogging with branches the series does on all these useless issues is a waste of time. No one wants to watch or will watch because the product just sucks. These drivers are not challenged and they are not fun to watch.

Until they fix that core problem all the beating about the bush with stuff like the TV deal is a waste of time. To sell something, first you have to have something worth selling.

[codename_47]

^Agreed.

I used to think everyone understood that less grip and more horsepower was the formula for great racing.

Now that more and more series are running huge amounts of downforce and little power to make up, I have to wonder if that's an old fashioned view of racing?

I know the reasons the IRL and then Indycar kept backing off on the power (keeping the cars on the ground for the ovals, despite the fact their wonky high downforce package was the reason those cars went flying and stayed airborne more than any other racing car in history) but it seems with the current packless oval racing, those days are behind us, so it really is time to start inching forward on the horsepower stakes imo.

[FordCosworthPanoz]

Originally Posted by mountainstar

IRC we were spun in 2010 that there would be 50-80 jobs created and as I recall some state money was involved in making this "manufacturing plant" happen as well as the land being bought for a premium. A few people I talked to a few years ago when it was happening said it was about as sleazy as a deal it could be.

All part of the 'Speedway Indiana Redevelopment' thing, don't see why bother, the area around IMS has basically become a ghetto that looks like it belongs in a Fallout video game. Mind you, who would want to live next to the correctly named "Coke" Lot even if you had to deal with that human filth only twice a year. It's no surprise nothings really developed around the track compared to say Daytona where the crazies are mostly in the infield.

[D.R.T.]

Originally Posted by HJJ

Not a relative article, it was written 16 months ago. Things/people/priorities (sponsors) change and TV ratings continue to fall.

Relevant article in that is showed that it was the teams resisting aero packages and not Indycar as you had stated in your post earlier.

[Marcus666]

Speaking of the Champ Car situation back in 2007, It looked IMO better on "paper" than what Indycar actually is today. What was the final straw to the series, the departure of Allmendinger and Bourdais? Did the cost of the Panoz chassis escalate through the roof?

[Peat]

22 years of development, and er....... oh

[Paradise City]

The Tyrrell is nice actually albeit that is the car we can blame for those high noses that mutilate the front of the modern F1 car. The DW12 is OK from the front profile as well although it could be more slender. It's the side, rear profiles that look chubby and unsightly on the DW12. Excusable in a series awash with cash, hard to bear in a series that needs to turn heads outside of dedicated Indycar fan circles.

[IceMan_PJN]

Originally Posted by DS"

IndyCar needs to reach as much people as possible. Something, which they don't do at the NBC Sports Network, and barely at ABC. But Pocono scoring a rating over 1.0 should be encouraging for IndyCar. Therefore, the first task should be to reach an average of 1.0 (For all races EXCEPT Indy of course). But I get the feeling that the TV audience doesn't want street courses. They want the big name tracks like Pocono, Road America and so on. IndyCar should work on that front. Yes, it may not make money initially, but you've got to invest something if you want to reach something (Granted, IndyCar hasn't done the right investments since the inception of the Indy Racing League).
IndyCar also needs more names that are recognizable to the casual fan. The solution can only be to bring over as many NASCAR drivers as possible. Guys like A.J. Allmendinger, Kurt Busch or Juan-Pablo Montoya may be available for the next season and all three of them bring some recognizable name value with them. Having more well-known drivers in IndyCar should probably help raising its value to the public.

I'm not sure where they can look to bring in viewers. I mean, there's all sorts of places that they can look at folks they fantasize about becoming viewers, but where can they realistically find them? In general, American race fans are NASCAR fans, and in general NASCAR fans hate open-wheel racing and care little for anything that doesn't resemble NASCAR. IndyCar isn't likely to ever appeal to very many of these. They could try to win over viewers elsewhere in the world, but I'm not sure what they could propose to offer as an alternative to the existing global open-wheel series of F1. "Like F1 but wish it came from America? Then have we got the sport for you!"

"Okay, but people can watch more than one series." Yeah, I know. I watch several. That doesn't necessarily mean most others are happy to start following multiple series. Some may, as some already do, but I reckon most probably won't.

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by Peat

22 years of development, and er....... oh

The resemblance is striking, but the Tyrrell has better lines in certain places.

[D.R.T.]

Originally Posted by IceMan_PJN

In general, American race fans are NASCAR fans, and in general NASCAR fans hate open-wheel racing and care little for anything that doesn't resemble NASCAR. IndyCar isn't likely to ever appeal to very many of these.

I am not sure of the demographic but I am not sure all NASCAR fans hate open wheel.

I am sure there are extremists who would feel that way but cant imagine the majority feel that way.