Williams should have a shootout for the second seat! - Page 2

garcon · 23 Sep 2005, 10:01 (Ref:1414650)

Quote:

Originally Posted by NO1SPECIAL

I have a sneaking suspicion that in general F1 drivers are highly overrated.

Really?

So when was the last time someone entirely new to F1 came in and wiped the floor with these "overrated" F1 drivers?

joe rossi · 23 Sep 2005, 10:15 (Ref:1414658)

seen this?

http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns15655.html

seems Wheldon is in with a shout...

flashF1 · 23 Sep 2005, 10:29 (Ref:1414668)

Quote:

Originally Posted by garcon

Really?

So when was the last time someone entirely new to F1 came in and wiped the floor with these "overrated" F1 drivers?

1996

**Adam43** · 23 Sep 2005, 10:42 (Ref:1414674)

Quote:

Originally Posted by joe rossi

seen this?

http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns15655.html

seems Wheldon is in with a shout...

Interesting, but he signed a contract for another year with Andrett-Green not too long ago.

I thought all the links to a test drive were with BAR, not Williams.

Armco Bender · 23 Sep 2005, 10:55 (Ref:1414684)

They could pick a driver with some talent,that would be original.

Glen · 23 Sep 2005, 11:02 (Ref:1414693)

Quote:

Originally Posted by flashF1

1996

NO1SPECIAL · 23 Sep 2005, 11:13 (Ref:1414704)

Quote:

Originally Posted by garcon

Really?

So when was the last time someone entirely new to F1 came in and wiped the floor with these "overrated" F1 drivers?

um, lemme see, when did Raikkonen come to F1?

garcon · 23 Sep 2005, 11:13 (Ref:1414705)

Quote:

Originally Posted by flashF1

1996

Correct!

And before that?

My point isn't that it never happens - just that by and large new drivers coming into F1 take a while to adjust. Which to me does not suggest that F1 drivers are overrated.

garcon · 23 Sep 2005, 11:17 (Ref:1414709)

Quote:

Originally Posted by NO1SPECIAL

um, lemme see, when did Raikkonen come to F1?

My memory must be failing. I don't recall Raikkonen entering F1 and immediately wiping the floor with everyone. In fact his wins to races ratio isn't exactly brilliant.

That said, he will be one of the top drivers of the next several years.

Every now and then great talents enter the sport - Raikkonen and Alonso are two of them. They are brilliant, naturally gifted drivers who would inevitably enter F1 relatively young because F1 remains the pinnacle of motorsport.

That in no way suggests that "F1 drivers are overrated" which is the point I was answering!

BootsOntheSide · 23 Sep 2005, 11:19 (Ref:1414712)

Of all the current drivers, only Michael and Rubens outscored their team-mates in their first full seasons (Webber did, and Montiero and Albers will, but all against rookie team-mates, so that doesn't count). It always takes time to adjust to the series, and the same thing happens in GP2, F3 and just about everything else - most rookies aren't fully competitive until at least halfway through their first season.

flashF1 · 23 Sep 2005, 11:25 (Ref:1414716)

In other words when a driver makes a sudden impact when he enters F1 it's something special.

I agree, some have talent that is evident instantly, Mika took 7 years to win his first race and went on to be a great champion.

I think fans use the term over rated without understanding ... F1 in my opinion is the pinnacle of motorsports and to be on the grid suggests a driver is anything but over rated.

Frank is not stupid and history is evidence on his side that Rosberg will make an impact in the pinnacle of all motorsports.

NO1SPECIAL · 23 Sep 2005, 11:39 (Ref:1414727)

Quote:

Originally Posted by garcon

My memory must be failing. I don't recall Raikkonen entering F1 and immediately wiping the floor with everyone. In fact his wins to races ratio isn't exactly brilliant.

That said, he will be one of the top drivers of the next several years.

Every now and then great talents enter the sport - Raikkonen and Alonso are two of them. They are brilliant, naturally gifted drivers who would inevitably enter F1 relatively young because F1 remains the pinnacle of motorsport.

That in no way suggests that "F1 drivers are overrated" which is the point I was answering!

From memory Raikkonen was very competitive in his first year...isn't that enough? I mean, where did he come from exactly...? As for the wins to races thing, i think the mclaren reliability and form thing has a bit to do with that.

My point is that F1 is almost a closed shop. And when nationality and sponsor dollars determine who even gets a shot, naturally the quality must be affected.

How is anyone supposed to come in and "wipe the floor with everyone" when they never get a drive...and if they're lucky enough to do so, it's not in a competitive car?

Mystery · 23 Sep 2005, 11:42 (Ref:1414729)

Quote:

Originally Posted by flashF1

Frank is not stupid and history is evidence on his side that Rosberg will make an impact in the pinnacle of all motorsports.

I fully expect to see him making an impact in the Armco - not sure about anything else.

And besides since when is comparing someone to Mark Webber a good guide for future champions?? By that definition you sack Webber and hire Justin Wilson......we can dream can't we.....

Glen · 23 Sep 2005, 11:53 (Ref:1414740)

Quote:

Originally Posted by NO1SPECIAL

ow is anyone supposed to come in and "wipe the floor with everyone" when they never get a drive...and if they're lucky enough to do so, it's not in a competitive car?

The best WILL get a drive and WILL make a difference. Look at Schumacher and what he did for Bennetton - I don't think the is a more extreme example. Standards are even higher now too, in my view.

The notion that there are great numbers (or any number at all) of talented drivers out there who could beat the current F1 encumbents if only they had the money or the face is frankly daft. If they have the talent they will attract the backers.

flashF1 · 23 Sep 2005, 11:57 (Ref:1414744)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mystery

I fully expect to see him making an impact in the Armco - not sure about anything else.

And besides since when is comparing someone to Mark Webber a good guide for future champions?? By that definition you sack Webber and hire Justin Wilson......we can dream can't we.....

I wasn't comparing him to Mark Webber, I was giving Frank credit for spotting talent. Recent examples are Jenson and Mark.

NO1SPECIAL · 23 Sep 2005, 12:02 (Ref:1414753)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glen

The best WILL get a drive and WILL make a difference. Look at Schumacher and what he did for Bennetton - I don't think the is a more extreme example. Standards are even higher now too, in my view.

The notion that there are great numbers (or any number at all) of talented drivers out there who could beat the current F1 encumbents if only they had the money or the face is frankly daft. If they have the talent they will attract the backers.

That is just not true. MS comes from a wealthy country and had backers - most people cannot say the same.

**Adam43** · 23 Sep 2005, 12:22 (Ref:1414782)

Doesn't that just demonstrate what Glen was saying?

joe rossi · 23 Sep 2005, 12:26 (Ref:1414787)

Quote:

Originally Posted by flashF1

I wasn't comparing him to Mark Webber, I was giving Frank credit for spotting talent. Recent examples are Jenson and Mark.

Frank didn't "discover" Webber

flashF1 · 23 Sep 2005, 12:46 (Ref:1414812)

Joe you could be right that it was Patrick Head who was impressed with Webber's performance whilst at Jaguar. When, I think Williams I think Frank.

Jenny, was Frank's discovery and a temporary fill in for JPM, that I am certain of.

garcon · 23 Sep 2005, 12:56 (Ref:1414824)

Quote:

Originally Posted by NO1SPECIAL

From memory Raikkonen was very competitive in his first year...isn't that enough? I mean, where did he come from exactly...? As for the wins to races thing, i think the mclaren reliability and form thing has a bit to do with that.

My point is that F1 is almost a closed shop. And when nationality and sponsor dollars determine who even gets a shot, naturally the quality must be affected.

How is anyone supposed to come in and "wipe the floor with everyone" when they never get a drive...and if they're lucky enough to do so, it's not in a competitive car?

Some very fair points there. Though now even the small teams are owned by much bigger groups I think talent will become a bigger factor than dollars in who gets a drive. The quality of drivers who've been given the chance with Minardi and Jordan lately has been variable, but even they have done their bit in unearthing true talent (Alonso and Webber to name two).

Glen · 23 Sep 2005, 13:06 (Ref:1414831)

Quote:

Originally Posted by NO1SPECIAL

That is just not true. MS comes from a wealthy country and had backers - most people cannot say the same.

Michael would not have had the backers if he didn't have the potential. To follow your argument all German drivers would move swiftly into top drives.

Obviously it isn't universally true, but nothing much in life is. Fact remains that the cream does rise to the top, and most for most drivers, even excellent ones, getting into F1 and staying there is the absolute limit of their achievement - to win takes another notch more.

**chunterer** · 23 Sep 2005, 13:27 (Ref:1414854)

Obviously it isn't universally true, but nothing much in life is. Fact remains that the cream does rise to the top, and most for most drivers, even excellent ones, getting into F1 and staying there is the absolute limit of their achievement - to win takes another notch more.[/QUOTE]

I'd never thought of it that way, excellent point sir!

However, i know i saw a potential F1 star in Robbie Kerr in F Renault and then F3 and he still has to slog around getting one off drives to keep himself race ready...

I hope he does the biz in A1 because i think he's that good.... but like you say, getting an F1 drive is one thing, winning an F1 race is another thing altogether!!!

**chunterer** · 23 Sep 2005, 13:31 (Ref:1414857)

But to the point.... Give it to Jungle Boy for god's sake... ignore Webber, he's just worried that the myth he built up when they were Jag teamsters will be obliterated with Pizzonia alongside him in a team that can afford to run 2 equal cars!!

And to link my previous post to the thread...give Robbie a test n all!!!

joe rossi · 23 Sep 2005, 15:16 (Ref:1414942)

much as I'd love to see Davidson get the drive (yes Rennen, this is me saying this!) I do feel that Pizzonia deserves it, for staying loyal and for the drives he has put in as a sub.

Is Rosberg really that worthy of consideration? Or is it just the name?

**Adam43** · 23 Sep 2005, 15:58 (Ref:1414961)

Well that is an indication that his name works as much for him as against him.

He is leading the GP2 championship, so yes he is worthy of consideration. He has put in some good drives there and is quick.

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