Andretti F1 - 2025

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by Adam43

Imagine moving to the US for a job. Madness.

Can't even imagine.

Richard

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Adam43

Imagine moving to the US for a job. Madness.

Crazy to think anyone would even move to a different part of the country, let alone abroad, for work - something nobody in F1 would ever dream of doing.

[peebee2]

Originally Posted by Adam43

Imagine moving to the US for a job. Madness.

Lol, though for F1 it would be close, before even considering the visa requirements etc.

P38 is right too. Misfits, ********s and ******s might go but decent staff are unlikely to. One of the great things about the UK is you can move between teams to advance yourself, hence why Switzerland etc. is overall so unattractive.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by peebee2

One of the great things about the UK is you can move between teams to advance yourself, hence why Switzerland etc. is overall so unattractive.

That's great for someone making their start already living in the UK (although there aren't many teams based near Inverness - for example). But that is to the detriment of anyone from the rest of the world wanting to enter / advance in the sport.

The likes of Rory Byrne, Guillaume Rocquelin, Xevi Pujolar, Jo Bauer, Eric Blandin, Marcin Budkowski, Peter Crolla, Ayao Komatsu etc, etc, etc, are all examples of people who have been willing to move countries to further their F1 careers.

[peebee2]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

That's great for someone making their start already living in the UK (although there aren't many teams based near Inverness - for example). But that is to the detriment of anyone from the rest of the world wanting to enter / advance in the sport.

The likes of Rory Byrne, Guillaume Rocquelin, Xevi Pujolar, Jo Bauer, Eric Blandin, Marcin Budkowski, Peter Crolla, Ayao Komatsu etc, etc, etc, are all examples of people who have been willing to move countries to further their F1 careers.

Pete Crolla? I thought Pete's British.

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by Richard C

Its an age old story. I expect everyone has had someone that they worked with. Was knowledgeable about the industry in question, could talk a good game, maybe had been involved in it for years. They always thought they were God's gift, but they were an idiot and most everyone but them knew it.

Richard

It sure is. I can't recall the number of glowing references we gave for people we were desperate to get shot of. And I was even more sceptical about those who came to us for a job who had glowing references..... Fortunately, most of those who came to us we knew pretty well already.

[E.B]

Originally Posted by peebee2

Pete Crolla? I thought Pete's British.

Swap him out for Willem Toet then.

[steve_r]

They announced months ago that they would have both a US and European factory. But nevermind, apparently its a non-starter because no one will want to move to the USA.

As for this being unpopular among the current teams - frankly,if it was up to them it would be a closed shop forever.

A few years ago, half the current F1 teams were at serious risk of going bankrupt.

[broadrun96]

Oh and the US "factory" that's mentioned IS NOT A DAMN FACTORY, IT'S THEIR US TEAM BASE. If you want to bash a team at least bring facts. They have moved operations for the IMSA with WTR, Indy, NXT and Extreme E shops in one new shop. It's not like they run the Supercars shop out of the US and ship everything to Australia every event, nor is the main Formula E shop their either. At least make sense and pull heads out of asses first, then comment. I know, it's hard for some who want to be first and make huge statements but responsible adults know to actually read THEN post

[S griffin]

It’s still a tough task ahead, despite their involvement and success in other motorsports. We’ll see where they are in 12 months time. But it’s good more teams are being encouraged to come in. Quite a few teams have fallen by the wayside and quite frankly 10 teams is not enough. Although I doubt we’ll see more than 12, if that, anytime soon.

[Richard C]

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/h...etti/10528379/

Interesting article that talks about how the FIA arrived at only recommending Andretti moving forward. I was not aware there was a two phase fee for the FIA evaluation with the second fee being a decently large $280K.

The article also talks to the various complexities around 2025 vs 2026 (short runway, single car for 2025, new 2026 Concorde agreement) as well as potential EU anti-trust implications with respect to the anti-dilution fee.

Richard

[peebee2]

Originally Posted by broadrun96

Oh and the US "factory" that's mentioned IS NOT A DAMN FACTORY, IT'S THEIR US TEAM BASE. If you want to bash a team at least bring facts. They have moved operations for the IMSA with WTR, Indy, NXT and Extreme E shops in one new shop. It's not like they run the Supercars shop out of the US and ship everything to Australia every event, nor is the main Formula E shop their either. At least make sense and pull heads out of asses first, then comment. I know, it's hard for some who want to be first and make huge statements but responsible adults know to actually read THEN post

Jesus, I'll try to make it simple so you can understand.

Wrong. No teams have moved "in one new shop." The new facility has yet to be built.

Wrong. Comparing these other "teams" is a nonsense. The Supercars etc. is a badging exercise. It's not actually their team. Formula E cars are like running Formula Fords.

Part of their USP to F1 is to manufacture in the US.

I'm really not bothered by the opinions of one with little or no knowledge. I already know how hard they would find it to hire good staff, assuming they ever get an entry they can take up of course.

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by peebee2

Jesus, I'll try to make it simple so you can understand.

You really do have an interesting way of having a grown up discussion. I don't actually understand why you bother to have a discourse with us plebs as you are so obviously way more knowledgeable than we will ever be.

[peebee2]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

You really do have an interesting way of having a grown up discussion.

Apologies, but only with a keyboard warrior who exists only to contradict and try and insult despite actually knowing virtually nothing of the subject.

[S griffin]

Originally Posted by peebee2

Apologies, but only with a keyboard warrior who exists only to contradict and try and insult despite actually knowing virtually nothing of the subject.

You really fail to see the irony of your post

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by S griffin

You really fail to see the irony of your post

I wish I could upvote this comment!

Richard

[Tourer]

Originally Posted by broadrun96

Oh and the US "factory" that's mentioned IS NOT A DAMN FACTORY, IT'S THEIR US TEAM BASE.

Probably a trans-Atlantic translation difference I suspect. The term "factory" is regularly used for F1 Team home bases in UK & Europe.

I do seem to recall (but may be incorrect) that Andretti did say at one point that they'd be building cars in the US and have a European base to operate from. That may well have changed.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Tourer

Probably a trans-Atlantic translation difference I suspect. The term "factory" is regularly used for F1 Team home bases in UK & Europe.

I do seem to recall (but may be incorrect) that Andretti did say at one point that they'd be building cars in the US and have a European base to operate from. That may well have changed.

Maybe - or it could be based on what Mario Andretti said (as you allude to):

“They’re far enough along that, if they get the approval to be added to the 10 teams that exist in F1, they’re ready to go the next day and put everything in place. This didn’t just happen. They’ve been working hard to secure personnel. Some individuals are standing by that have been part of start-ups [in the past], and the building would be separate [from the IndyCar headquarters], but everything would ultimately all be under one big roof - together, but separate.”

'The elder Andretti divulged that F1’s possible 11th two-car team, to be named Andretti Global, would have its home base in England with the cars made at a yet-to-be-built “state-of-the-art” facility in Indianapolis near the team’s IndyCar and Indy Lights headquarters.'


A list of technical chiefs has also been published - so it seems like the claims that people won't move to the venture are misplaced.

Nick Chester is mentioned as a possible technical director.
John McQuilliam is named as chief designer.
Jon Tomlinson is named as head of aerodynamics.

[Teretonga]

Originally Posted by Richard C

Andretti is swimming upstream on a few different fronts. First new team vs. purchasing an existing one. The location issue as you say. They say they will be based in the US, but with a support location in the UK. I agree with you that this will create recruiting challenges. Existing staff in the UK (especially those with deep roots such as children in school, etc.) may have little interest in relocating. Conversely, it may bring in some new blood from the US that may not have much interest in moving to the UK. Not saying that balances things out, but I do think it is true. At the end of the day I would love to see them make it work just to see if it add something new.

And, what is so interesting about that "new" thing is that the teams and FOM keep calling out that a new team needs to bring something special to the table. What is not special about a new team located in a different part of the world. For good or bad, F1 has become this small island of incestous co-habitation all within a stone throws away from each other in central England. Why does the sport advocate for more of the same?


What is glorious about Steiner's comment is that he effectively is saying Haas shouldn't have been brought in earlier. There is no reason why his argument couldn't be applied to them as well. Just change the date.

The anti-dilution fee is mostly another topic. What is interesting is that the teams live and breath by the Concorde agreement. So the parts they love are considered sacred while those they don't like are considered negotiable or even non-applicable. Maybe at the time they signed it, they should have baked in some adjustments to that fee based upon overall value of the teams vs. a fixed amount. Granted, I think there is some vague wording about protecting value of teams or something, but that can be worked out if FOM desires to put in the effort and make the pie larger.

Richard

Good points here Richard.

I have commented about the dilution fee before in other threads but the whole thing is a nonsense.
If Andretti came in and was the 8th team in its first year and the others got shuffled back one spot so what?
Its a competition, and the rewards are for competitiveness.
You get beaten you don't match them you drop places in the ranking and get paid less.

Are the teams that finished ahead of Aston Martin in 2022 going to complain that their share of the cake is now smaller because they got beaten in 2023?
No.
The anti-dilution fee is protectionist drivel.
Teams are rewarded by the amount of success they generate in a particular season. So why do they need a $600 million anti-dilution fee?
In any one year they would have to compete with the other teams and get a payout on their finishing position.
If a season was close and was followed closely, they might end up with a pot 20% larger and all better off.
Then what?
Do they all give back to Andretti their share of the anti-dilution fee when in his first season they were all better off? Not likely.
They have no integrity. They are there to compete and if someone comes in and adds to their value and reward, but they get a smaller share of the pie whose fault is that?
It's not Andretti's.

Its Liberty's job to produce revenue and make the numbers work for the teams. And if the teams are lower in the pecking order and if revenue drops, don't blame Andretti. If it increases, they won't thank Andretti, they'll credit themselves.

There are commentators suggesting the RBR dominance is causing a withdrawal of number of followers. What happens if Andretti doesn't get in because they get turned down and the next season the bottom falls out of the sport?
They can't blame Andretti! And they'll have lost their opportunity to ever demand a dilution fund again.
Self-interest and greed, an unsporting attitude, and a refusal to accept that they are a part of an open competition (which is what F1 has always traditionally been based on) has the ability to turn their confidence into a nightmare for them.
And there are a number of F1 enthusiasts who would be happy to see them gone.
Where F1 is going is not liked by everyone who follows the sport, and there is always the possibility that everything could turn turtle, with little warning, in the years to come.

[peebee2]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

Maybe - or it could be based on what Mario Andretti said (as you allude to):

“They’re far enough along that, if they get the approval to be added to the 10 teams that exist in F1, they’re ready to go the next day and put everything in place. This didn’t just happen. They’ve been working hard to secure personnel. Some individuals are standing by that have been part of start-ups [in the past], and the building would be separate [from the IndyCar headquarters], but everything would ultimately all be under one big roof - together, but separate.”

'The elder Andretti divulged that F1’s possible 11th two-car team, to be named Andretti Global, would have its home base in England with the cars made at a yet-to-be-built “state-of-the-art” facility in Indianapolis near the team’s IndyCar and Indy Lights headquarters.'

Yes, that's pretty much what has been quoted from day one. They want to build a new megabucks factory in the US, although that's a bit mired at the moment, and a key USP is to build the cars there.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by peebee2

Yes, that's pretty much what has been quoted from day one. They want to build a new megabucks factory in the US, although that's a bit mired at the moment, and a key USP is to build the cars there.

They already broke ground on the new facility last December.


https://andrettiautosport.com/news/a...shers-indiana/

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by peebee2

They want to build a new megabucks factory in the US, although that's a bit mired at the moment,

Why is it mired?

[peebee2]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

Why is it mired?

Legal disputes with contractors, I'm sure I heard and also read somewhere.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

Why is it mired?

There's this article from IndyStar.


https://eu.indystar.com/story/sports...p/70250771007/

[chillibowl]

to be fair though, the construction of any large facility will always be prone to delays, the whims of planning authorities, tax authorities, utility boards, the local nimby faction, bird watching societies (just a joke birds are amazing!), and then of course issues dealing with contractors.

none of which is hardly unique to the realities of building in America. i suspect anywhere one would see as an ideal place to set up an F1 facility would also happen to be in a place equally if not more mired by a similar level of bureaucracy, incompetence, or lawsuits right?

not sure i see this as a knock against them...certainly not a knock against the place tbh.