FIA announces standard engine tender!

[ScotsBrutesFan]

I can't help but feel Max is trying to force through way to much before he get the shove himself.

Almost an "If I can't keep control of F1 ... lets kill F1 and all it stands for off before I go"

[BertMk2]

Originally Posted by ScotsBrutesFan

Almost an "If I can't keep control of F1 ... lets kill F1 and all it stands for off before I go"

That's not beyond the realms of possibility - a "scorched earth" policy or "If I can't have it nobody will" tantrum.

[phoenix]

Originally Posted by Tehillim

This is ridiculous, Mosley's meant to be waiting for FOTA to present proposals for cost cutting, why on earth does he need to pre-empt the teams?

Mosley ueber alles...............

[phoenix]

Originally Posted by Alan Cherry

MMM If I was a manufacturer, I'd walk away from this - What would I stand to gain ( say if I'm mercedes ) if everyone knows the Toyota engine is exactly the same as mine ???

Ah! But if you were TagAZ (Russia) or Tata Motors (India) or Nanjing Auto (China)????

[Knowlesy]

Originally Posted by johntt

Don't lump IRL in with Champ Car.

Champ Car was awesome, IRL is dumbed down rubbish.

Both were pants.

Now CART, on the other hand... :lurve:

Anyways, this engine tender thing. I can't well imagine that they are seriously going to do this. I am hoping it is just, as people have said, a way of forcing through other changes. In fact, I am confident of this.

If it really does happen then I am afraid it is another nail in the coffin.

[phoenix]

Originally Posted by VIVA GT

This could be a coincidence, but this week's Autosport Magazine carries a large advertisement for jobs by Caterpillar for their Perkins Engines plant in Peterborough...

Chip-fat powered diesels - now wouldn't that be great? Except for the smell of course. But it could bring in a new global sponsor and a new name for the championship - McFormula1

[JHamilton]

Originally Posted by Marbot

FIA clarifies regulation.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/71459

So basically you can still build your own engine to the exact specifications of the standard one...why bother.

Well aren't you just the F1 good news fairy this week.

Why do I watch this crap? Oh yeah, I hate Tony George more than Bernie and Max. Just barely though. I should have learned my lesson in '05, but I keep coming back form more.

This decision by the FIA makes sportscars truly the last bastion of innovation in motorsport. Luckily for me I like sportscars more OW.

[duke_toaster]

This is probably brinkmanship from Max. This spec engine would have been a ridiculous idea this time last year, although I am less opposed to the idea due to the economic climate. Although it would probably be cheaper just to rev limit the current units to 17000rpm and give them one per four race phase. And to cut down on testing.

[VIVA GT]

Originally Posted by duke_toaster

This is probably brinkmanship from Max. This spec engine would have been a ridiculous idea this time last year, although I am less opposed to the idea due to the economic climate. Although it would probably be cheaper just to rev limit the current units to 17000rpm and give them one per four race phase. And to cut down on testing.

I agree duke. It's just Sabre Rattling from Max and his cronies...

[johntt]

Originally Posted by Knowlesy

Both were pants.

Now CART, on the other hand... :lurve:

Anyways, this engine tender thing. I can't well imagine that they are seriously going to do this. I am hoping it is just, as people have said, a way of forcing through other changes. In fact, I am confident of this.

If it really does happen then I am afraid it is another nail in the coffin.

Thats what I meant PPG CART Indycar / CART World Series / Champ Car. Should have made myself more clear.

[Matt]

Let's see, everyone wants to go back to the "Golden Age" of F1. Everyone ran the DFV, therefore it was essentially a spec engine series. We get that now, and everyone *****es. I personally love this change, everyone will be on the same plane for engines, which leaves the REST of the car to be better than everyone else. Sure, you may have a powerful car, but that doesn't mean jack **** if it's got crap aero. Now that everyone has around the same bhp, the car has to be that much better.

[duke_toaster]

We don't need to look that much backwards for a system that works, we need to look forwards.

Given the whole business about fuel supplies it would be advantagous for F1 to have a set of rules that gives the manufacturers a way to use F1 for R and D. However it should not price out the privateers. My view is that F1 engine rules should not be a competition to produce an advantage whilst racing, but a competition where the manufacturers can show of their latest technologies. As I've posted several times before my view on how this could be achieved is rather simple (apologies for the derailing).

One - Remove restrictions on number of cylinders and engine size but limit power output to 750-800 (depending how silly you feel) horsepower. This would stop a power war taking place and could lower budgets.
Two - Award bonus points in the World Constructor's Championship for fuel economy on a 5-3-2-1 system. Only cars that finish in the top eight positions will be able. Coming dead last but use practically no fuel still means no points.
Three - like FOTA have suggested a must sell price for engines. And possibly complete chassis, making F1 to increase to twenty teams (of course, there will need to be a change to qualifying to facilitate it).

[davyboy]

Duke, you're forgetting that all, yes all, of the manufacturers are on the precipice of the most turbulent time they've ever faced. Formula One will be bottom of their priorities and top of their list of things to cut out. A recession and a shortage of credit is a lethal cocktail for a car manufacturer.

As I said earlier, if this does go ahead, it may be a very, very smart move.

A couple of other things to think about :

o Almost every form of single seater racing today is spec. based. F3 is all but spec. chassis with the Dallara. F1 is one of the last bastions.

o 25% of the performance differential on an F1 car is the tyres... and they're spec. That's arguably more than the engine.

[duke_toaster]

Originally Posted by davyboy

Duke, you're forgetting that all, yes all, of the manufacturers are on the precipice of the most turbulent time they've ever faced. Formula One will be bottom of their priorities and top of their list of things to cut out. A recession and a shortage of credit is a lethal cocktail for a car manufacturer.

Now is the worst time possible for my suggestions. They are something that should be considered when the economic climate has improved. Two years? Three years? Four? Who knows.

I also said further up (and I don't blame you for not seeing it at all) that under this economic climate the best course of action would be to rev limit the current engines very tightly - 15000-17000 is my suggestion.

[davyboy]

Ya but rev-limiting won't stop development... in fact it will probably exacerbate it. The narrower the window for performance improvement... the more expensive each increment becomes. The only solution will be to take the manufacturers out of the equation.

In terms of recessions etc... I worked for Ford during the early 90s recession and boy did we suffer. At the time Ford, like many other auto manufacturers, were throwing credit at buyers and that was one of the only things that helped generate any sales. Remove access to credit and I don't want to think about what things would have been like. We need to remember a new car is the first thing people will postpone buying when times are hard that's why auto companies are the first to suffer on the outset of a recession and the last to recover when things get better.

I rarely agree with anything the FIA does... more so over the last few weeks... but this is a very good idea.

[Tehillim]

Originally Posted by davyboy

Duke, you're forgetting that all, yes all, of the manufacturers are on the precipice of the most turbulent time they've ever faced. Formula One will be bottom of their priorities and top of their list of things to cut out. A recession and a shortage of credit is a lethal cocktail for a car manufacturer.

As I said earlier, if this does go ahead, it may be a very, very smart move.

A couple of other things to think about :

o Almost every form of single seater racing today is spec. based. F3 is all but spec. chassis with the Dallara. F1 is one of the last bastions.

o 25% of the performance differential on an F1 car is the tyres... and they're spec. That's arguably more than the engine.

But why impose something on the teams when they're in the process of agreeing cost cutting measures? Surely FOTA would have been the best forum to decide a cost-cutting strategy? I agree something needs to be done urgently but surely the manufacturers are more aware of that than anyone? It looks to me like Mosley is kicking against the prospect of losing influence over the direction of F1 and is trying to kill off FOTA. IMO, it's not about what's good for F1, it's about preserving FIA influence.

[davyboy]

A few reasons why. First, things may be a lot more serious than we can see now - there may not be very many manufacturers capable and willing to commit to F1 beyond this year, let alone 4 years forward. Second, the manufacturers have a poor track record with regard to getting concensus on cost cutting to date.

The FIA need to act in the best interests of the sport. FOTA will act in the best interests of the manufacturers.

[duke_toaster]

FOTA does not just represent the manufacturer teams. It represents all the teams.

[Pingguest]

I don't believe the current economic crisis is a justification to make Formula 1 spec series. We world faced recessions in the 1970's and late 1980's/early 1990's. I can't remember Formula 1 being a spec series in those days.

[Pingguest]

I'm totally against an enforced durability for any component. But any way, if you really want to reduce engine costs the FIA should mandate the engine to last the entire season.

[dazbaz_99]

If this does happen I hope its for 3 years only and no more. I know A1GP is not trying to compete with F1, but its beginning to appear the other way around!! On the flip side sportscar racing is going to seriously gain from a spec f1 imo.

[P38 in workshop]

If they had insisted on a common set of engine mounting points,as was done in the IRL in the days when there was a choice of engines,I would have seen some logic.On the other hand if F1 withers as a result of this and somebody comes up with a series called-how about GP1-could the new series escape the clutches of the current commercial rights holder?If so,could the participants negotiate television exposure and assignment of any income?

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by JHamilton

Well aren't you just the F1 good news fairy this week.

Not just this week!

And if anyone is interested.

http://www.fia.com/en-GB/sport/Pages...ntoTender.aspx

http://argent.fia.com/web/appeloffre...lt?openagent&a

[Down F0rce]

Originally Posted by Matt

Sure, you may have a powerful car, but that doesn't mean jack **** if it's got crap aero. Now that everyone has around the same bhp, the car has to be that much better.

That's more or less the situation now though. The engines are more or less on the same playing field for the past few years so the engineers have to improve the areo... which has been what's killing the racing. A standard engine will just make this worse.

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by duke_toaster

FOTA does not just represent the manufacturer teams. It represents all the teams.

Yes but as Davyboy suggests the manufacturers (who most of the teams are effectively cowing down to) call the shots. Those shots are in their interests more than the teams or anyone else.

Changes (not necessariloy these ones) need to be forced through to a certain extent for the greater good of the wider audience.