Could Supertouring be a possibility today?

[nickyf1]

I have freeveiw and I should get Eurosport, but i dont, I have no signal from it apparantly.. ITV4 show the occasional race a week after.

[the sniper]

Originally Posted by nickyf1

I have freeveiw and I should get Eurosport, but i dont, I have no signal from it apparantly.. ITV4 show the occasional race a week after.

It's not that your not getting a signal, on Freeview you have to pay for Top Up TV to get Eurosport. Even if you do pay, you only get Eurosport between 7:30am and 10am, so it's really not worth it.

[Aslak Vind]

I like that they call it "Free" view

[duke_toaster]

Aslak, Freeview is a system which is free to air channels (20 worth watching) over digital terrestrial. No subscription, boxes start at £30 or so. Not everywhere in the country can get a good signal, there's one mux that I can't get too good a signal on.

[Captain VXR]

Originally Posted by touringlegend

The S2000 cars (and to a larger extent the BTC spec cars) have this cringeworthy pop when changing gears..

I've only seen the Toledos, petrol Leons and Vectras do that, it obviouslyis not anti-lag, any idea of what makes the pops and bangs?

[Sodemo]

Originally Posted by Captain VXR

I've only seen the Toledos, petrol Leons and Vectras do that, it obviouslyis not anti-lag, any idea of what makes the pops and bangs?

A lot of racing cars do it to some degree.

I've heard pops and bangs on downshifts and upshifts from touring cars, rally cars and single seaters.

[stedevil]

Originally Posted by Captain VXR

I've only seen the Toledos, petrol Leons and Vectras do that, it obviouslyis not anti-lag, any idea of what makes the pops and bangs?

My guess, self ignition of the air-fuel mix, aka "knocking". Likely caused by optimizing performance at higher revs so at lower revs the combustion happens before the spark sets it off due to cylinder heat.

In the old days, there might be some system that turns off ignition for a split second, to ease changing gears quickly, and unburnt fuel igniting in the exhaust. Though dont think anything like that would still be used on a modern TC (more linked to old carburettor tech than modern fuel injection). But I guess there should be some mechanics around here able to answer in more detail.

[Aslak Vind]

Originally Posted by Captain VXR

I've only seen the Toledos, petrol Leons and Vectras do that, it obviouslyis not anti-lag, any idea of what makes the pops and bangs?

On the sequential transmission, there is a switch when changing gears, which delays the ignition. The fuel is still pumped through the engine, however not ignited to allow the transmission to change gear. The fuel also operates as a coolant, when its pumped through the engine.

When it hits the hot exhaust, it ignites. We have it on our 2008 Leon. On the older Leons, there is a cut-off switch instead, and that sounds so much more violent.

[stedevil]

Originally Posted by Aslak Vind

The fuel also operates as a coolant

Ahh, of course, didnt think about that still being a good reason for flushing fuel through the cylinders with injector engines.

[werner]

Is unburnt fuel not very harmfull for the cathalysator?

[stedevil]

Originally Posted by werner

Is unburnt fuel not very harmfull for the cathalysator?

Well, normally I would assume a good bang in the exhaust would "clean out" the ceramic parts, but I presume they run with special racing cats that can withstand a fair bit more abuse? Unburnt fuel reaching all the way down into the cat itself also doesnt feel like it would be likely to happen on a racecar (should self ignite a lot earlier).

[Aslak Vind]

We run with racing cats, encountering just that

[Captain VXR]

thanks for the answers

[jaybond]

Originally Posted by the sniper

If S2000 had the same Manufacturer support as ST, had the same amount of National series using it as ST did and only allowed 3 box cars to be homologated (I can't stand the hatchbacks), I would have to say of the two, that I prefer S2000...

Leave the hatchbacks to rallying, rallycross, those type of motorsports.
Bring back the saloons!

Logically speaking, the S2000 regulations which is less costly than Super Touring, could have been the catalyst to attract more manufacturers, strangely it wasn't to be. Looks like it could never achieve the same heights as the Super Touring era..

[jaybond]

Originally Posted by Aslak Vind

On the sequential transmission, there is a switch when changing gears, which delays the ignition. The fuel is still pumped through the engine, however not ignited to allow the transmission to change gear. The fuel also operates as a coolant, when its pumped through the engine.

When it hits the hot exhaust, it ignites. We have it on our 2008 Leon. On the older Leons, there is a cut-off switch instead, and that sounds so much more violent.

Is it what they call as full-throttle gearshift system?

[Aslak Vind]

Originally Posted by jaybond

Is it what they call as full-throttle gearshift system?

I believe so, yes Sir

[Jimmy Magnusson]

We should have the old pre-wings Super Touring cars. I really enjoyed the wings years of the BTCC but it's perhaps a tad too expensive with all the aero. A second class to replace the Leon's should be a sort of Sport Hatch class somewhere between Class B and BTC-T.

[jaybond]

So this system is causing pops & bang during every gearshift.
I've never attended any WTCC race before (Sepang never hosted), but last time I attended the SuperGT, I noticed the GT500 Nissans did emit that kind of noise every gearshift (but more like kaboom! sound), so I supposed it's the same thing.

[Chris Y]

Probably. It's also called 'spark cut' sometimes, or 'flat-shift'. As mentioned previously, fuel still goes in during a gear change, but the ECU doesn't generate the sparks to ignite the fuel. This means unburnt fuel enters the exhaust system, where it ignites on the host pipes, causing a bang/pop and perhaps some flames, which are always nice - see V8 Supercars

[JMeissner]

As for the original question, I would say: Yes, it could be with some modifications.

Which modifications?

These:

1 - Introduce common parts. Wheels, hubs, gearbox, electronics, etc.
2 - Introduce strict engine development rules. Longer durability, etc.
3 - Introduce strict aerodynamic development rules.

I would say that these changes could get ST a long way. It was, as "Flash" said, a shame that they didn't introduce similar changes as mentioned above instead of just killing the rules.

What we got instead was a good idea on paper, but S2000 has been destroyed by politics among manufacturers and FIA.

As Aslak and Nigel has mentioned, the cars today are very expensive to squeeze the last bit out of due to the rules. They are not far from the Super Touring-cars cost wise, especially on the engine lasting/renovation-side.


Taking up the well-developed Super Touring-rules, adding some modifications to keep the costs down and durability up, would, IMHO, give great racing and some great looking cars.

On the contrary to what we have today.

[redshoes]

Originally Posted by JMeissner

1 - Introduce common parts. Wheels, hubs, gearbox, electronics, etc.
2 - Introduce strict engine development rules. Longer durability, etc.
3 - Introduce strict aerodynamic development rules.

So basically, BTC-T

[Aslak Vind]

Sound a bit like the rules from DTM

[JMeissner]

Originally Posted by redshoes

So basically, BTC-T

Yeah, pretty much, but without the silly looks.

[Speed-King]

Introduce strict aerodynamic development rules.

Originally Posted by Aslak Vind

Sound a bit like the rules from DTM

Yeah, like the strict the-aero-dynamik-has-to-be super-ridiculous-rule from DTM^^

[Aslak Vind]

Originally Posted by Speed-King

Yeah, like the strict the-aero-dynamik-has-to-be super-ridiculous-rule from DTM^^

Dont put words into my mouth..

The DTM has loads of spec parts, to lower the price of the car. I think that would be a way to adress the cost issue.