The future of Grand Am?

[Vacarella]

Originally Posted by MrSebring

You can talk Grand-Am car counts all you want. The fact is Grand-Am has virtually no fan base. After Daytona, which had disappointing attendance again this year (despite the annual "record crowd" nonsense press release by NASCAR), most races are very poorly attended. NASCAR will not continue to throw money at this series over the long-term. They are suffering serious revenue drops with their stock car series, and unless things change dramatically, don't think Grand-Am is a sure thing over the long-term. Then again, ALMS isn't a sure thing either. Or IRL.

Virtually? Grand Am's fanbase has grown every year since its inception. At Barber Park for instance, its racing date there has sold out every year and continues to grow. "Very poorly attended" is not accurate, since most tracks in the US do not give out attendance figures, I have no idea where your opinion is based. Daytona is at LEAST putting up the same attendance figures as it has since the IMSA era. Detractors may point to lack of fans in the stands, but understand that Daytona's grandstand capicity has increased by over half since the IMSA era, and fans are simply more spread out. The infield for the 24 was jammed this year. Simply ask anyone who was actually there.

For Nino.

[dxk1]

Interesting to see that the teams (Level 5, Krohn, and Gainsco) rumored to be leaving the Grand Am Series are all entered at Homestead this weekend. Tucker is even there with 2 cars and Gainsco qualified on the front row. Nice to see the Corvette on pole in GT2. How long has it been since that has happened in Grand Am's GT Class?

DK

[Jonerz]

GT, not GT2. The last time it happened it wasn't called a Corvette, a GXP.R was on pole. Leighton's car is a re-bodied tuber. It would be interesting if LG's car had won the pole - especially because that would have been right out of the box.

Chris

[dxk1]

Boy how things have changed in the Grand Am GT Class. First a Corvette on the pole and now no Porsches until 8th place.

DK

[broadrun96]

Which GTs have the top end? Only caught the end of the race and it was mainly the 4-5 battle and then 1-2. Didn't see GT over than one quick pass, think it was for the lead. The track looked like a good circuit for the top end cars, infield seemed pretty short and not too tight, so which cars have the top end advantage now?

[MrSebring]

"Barber Park has sold out every year..." hahahah. I didn't know this was a comedy thread! "Daytona is putting up the same attendance figures as in the IMSA era..." Koolaid anyone?

[fjn356]

Sold out every year and continuing to grow! Must be expanding the spectator areas every year as well!

[DanShenise]

Yeah, last year's sell out was great. My reserved seat was on the third branch of pine tree #62. Fortunately my grandfather was a lineman for a power company. I had my own climbing spurs, didn't have to rent any. It was hell pulling my wife up to the branch though. Such a crowd.....

[JHamilton]

Originally Posted by Vacarella

Virtually? Grand Am's fanbase has grown every year since its inception. At Barber Park for instance, its racing date there has sold out every year and continues to grow. "Very poorly attended" is not accurate, since most tracks in the US do not give out attendance figures, I have no idea where your opinion is based. Daytona is at LEAST putting up the same attendance figures as it has since the IMSA era. Detractors may point to lack of fans in the stands, but understand that Daytona's grandstand capicity has increased by over half since the IMSA era, and fans are simply more spread out. The infield for the 24 was jammed this year. Simply ask anyone who was actually there.

For Nino.

I've been to two GA events at Barber. If there was a combined total of 40k for both weekends, I'd be shocked.

[Fogelhund]

International Speedway Corporation is a publicly traded company. If Grand American is not profitable for them, they may become pressured, or may choose to shut it down.

If it is profitable, or shows promise to be profitable, it will continue. Check the future annual filings for ISC to reveal details.

[Speed-King]

Unless I am missing something, GARRA is owned by NASCAR proper, not ISC...

[Fogelhund]

Originally Posted by Speed-King

Unless I am missing something, GARRA is owned by NASCAR proper, not ISC...

It is in the ISC filings as a purchase.

[Canada ALMS fan]

Did anyone else notice during the Homestead broadcast that both Shank and Stallings are in need of funding to finish the season? Add that to the Krohn rumours and DP is looking pretty shaky. Murphy is definitely on to something.

IMO LMPC could be a long term stroke of brillance by the ALMS (as long as they don't start allowing tubers in GT) to win over GA participants. Mind you Mazda seems very committed to Grand Am in GT.

[Fogelhund]

Originally Posted by Canada ALMS fan

Did anyone else notice during the Homestead broadcast that both Shank and Stallings are in need of funding to finish the season? Add that to the Krohn rumours and DP is looking pretty shaky. Murphy is definitely on to something.

IMO LMPC could be a long term stroke of brillance by the ALMS (as long as they don't start allowing tubers in GT) to win over GA participants. Mind you Mazda seems very committed to Grand Am in GT.

Don't just focus on the strength (or lack of) of the Rolex Series. Take a look at the entries in the Continental Tires series. Sixty something cars at Homestead. Now this isn't the type of series to draw fans to the track, but the revenues from sixty something entries must be very attractive. World Challenge has dropped the ball, and it's been to the benefit of Continental Tires. It's really good racing too, and we can't even complain about Tube frames or anything. If IMSA could only.....

[ptclaus98]

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

Don't just focus on the strength (or lack of) of the Rolex Series. Take a look at the entries in the Continental Tires series. Sixty something cars at Homestead. Now this isn't the type of series to draw fans to the track, but the revenues from sixty something entries must be very attractive. World Challenge has dropped the ball, and it's been to the benefit of Continental Tires. It's really good racing too, and we can't even complain about Tube frames or anything. If IMSA could only.....

World Challenge dropped the ball? SPEED didn't give it a chance. I suspect Versus will do it justice.

[Fogelhund]

Originally Posted by ptclaus98

World Challenge dropped the ball? SPEED didn't give it a chance. I suspect Versus will do it justice.

My point had nothing to do with TV coverage. The costs have been escalating for some time, and the grids have been dropping at a similar rate. Grand Am's version is simply much more cost effective, and now more attractive to the entrants. I don't recall the exact numbers, but I thought Continental Tire was something like a third the cost to run as WC is/was.

[fjn356]

"cost effective" and "attractive to the entrants" leaves me cold. Does a falling tree make a sound in the forest if no one is there to hear it? Has anyone noticed what cost containment has done to the AMA Superbike series attendance? If the choice is only between unappealing race vehicles and no races (and I do not think those are the only choices) then, I do not care, I will stay at home and keep my money in my pocket.

[cmk]

Originally Posted by fjn356

"cost effective" and "attractive to the entrants" leaves me cold. Does a falling tree make a sound in the forest if no one is there to hear it? Has anyone noticed what cost containment has done to the AMA Superbike series attendance? If the choice is only between unappealing race vehicles and no races (and I do not think those are the only choices) then, I do not care, I will stay at home and keep my money in my pocket.

As Fogelhund said, it produces good racing. It's fun, in a way that WC used to be before it decayed to the point where Touring was just a dozen factory cars and nothing else.

[Hugewally]

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

If IMSA could only.....

Just think, at one time it WAS an IMSA series...

[NaBUru38]

I'll hijack this thread and write what I would do if Nascar quitted suporting the Grand-Am and IMSA took over it. First of all, since you claim that the Grand-Am Continental Tire Challenge works (keep in mind that I live in a galaxy very, very far away), then it should stay.

Why can so many professional GT series coexist in Europe? Among other reasons, many of them use the very same cars. So could happen with the ALMS and Grand-Am. The Grand-Am should have two GT classes: ACO GT2 (or IMSA GT2) and an improved Prep. 2 silhouette formula with mean bodywork, perhaps in this rumoured joint-venture with the DTM and Japanese Super GT.

But then, what would be the difference between the two championships? I believe that the ALMS should push to longer, more tactical races (4 hours, 400 miles), whereas the Grand-Am Rolex Series should have shorter, more aggressive races (2 hours, 200 miles). ALMS should visit long or twisty circuits, Grand-Am the shorter as long as they have many overtaking spots.

[Fogelhund]

First, I mentioned Continental not in the context that it should, or shouldn't appeal to anyone, but rather pertaining to the original question of this thread. That being, the future of Grand Am as a whole. I bring it up, as it seems like a good business model for Grand Am, and in all probability a positive revenue source.

NaBUru38 - "If" I was running IMSA, and there was a consolidation in series, for IMSA's favour, chances are that the Rolex would simply go away. In my opinion, the Rolex and ALMS serve the same market, and is needless duplication. The Continental Tires on the other hand would be a positive addition.

Now having said that, my comments are not attached to reality. As long as ISC feels that there is value in Grand Am, it will continue, the same as any other business line.

[picchiofan]

Originally Posted by cmk

As Fogelhund said, it produces good racing. It's fun, in a way that WC used to be before it decayed to the point where Touring was just a dozen factory cars and nothing else.

WC would be elated if it were "a dozen factory cars" this year. They're looking at single digits for touring.

[picchiofan]

Originally Posted by ptclaus98

World Challenge dropped the ball? SPEED didn't give it a chance. I suspect Versus will do it justice.

How do you figure, sportsfan?

Speed gave it plenty of coverage when it was a supporting sponsor. The problem is, Speed wasn't a title sponsor after 2006. They bailed on that, and since WC couldn't find another sponsor, they just kept the name. At that point, the TV coverage became a time buy, and the geniuses at WC figured they didn't need to do more than buy a 3:30am timeslot.

VS might be decent, it's not like anyone is gonna watch.

[picchiofan]

Originally Posted by Canada ALMS fan

Did anyone else notice during the Homestead broadcast that both Shank and Stallings are in need of funding to finish the season? Add that to the Krohn rumours and DP is looking pretty shaky. Murphy is definitely on to something.

IMO LMPC could be a long term stroke of brillance by the ALMS (as long as they don't start allowing tubers in GT) to win over GA participants. Mind you Mazda seems very committed to Grand Am in GT.

Saying that teams that are out of money are going to buy all new equipment and run in a new series seems a bit of a stretch.

Also, your quotes are wrong. Shank said he needed funding to maintain a two car team, the one car is solid for the entire season, the second is contingent on ride buyers. Gainsco said they're looking for an associate sponsor.

[Fogelhund]

Originally Posted by picchiofan

VS might be decent, it's not like anyone is gonna watch.

I am of the opinion that at this point, both WC and Trans Am need to go away. Neither are particularly relevant anymore, and are just taking entries that should be in other series.