Monumental MR2 crash....

[Jimmy Magnusson]

I don't think driving standars should really come into discussion. While it's an important topic of its own, the tracks should always be safe enough that the cars won't leave the confines of the circuit. Coupled with the SEAT crash out on the GP loop it is clear MSV needs to have a good long look at Brands very soon, because we can't just rely on dumb luck to get us through safe and sound.

[Piglet]

It does bear repeating that all circuits are inspected by the MSA and in this case the FIA. A circuit owner will always be guided and led by what these bodies require and would require the consent of these authorities if they chose to do something different. Plus of course circuits that run bikes as well require the consent of the FIM (is that the correct body?) and would not be able to say put in big kerbs where they would be a hazard to bikes and riders.

[White flag man]

Originally Posted by Jimmy Magnusson

I don't think driving standars should really come into discussion. While it's an important topic of its own, the tracks should always be safe enough that the cars won't leave the confines of the circuit. Coupled with the SEAT crash out on the GP loop it is clear MSV needs to have a good long look at Brands very soon, because we can't just rely on dumb luck to get us through safe and sound.

Jimmy,
I don't think you will ever stop freak accidents.
Have two cars hit an armco together, with their combined weight, at that speed, at that angle, was going to make it very difficult for the armco to do anything other than it did.
The fact that Andrei's car then rode along the wall, without hitting the fence behind and went through the noly gap (into the soectator area) it could, I believe makes it a freak accident.
I believe that gap will soon be plugged, probably by more fencing. I also don't believe the fence that Andrei went through, didn't stand much chance either.

[I Rosputnik]

I think this now proves why high fencing along barriers are important for tracks. Yes, one of the cars went over, but it does show how far safety standards have come on.

[R59]

two lightweight cars at the angle they hit the barrier at should have been repelled. It should not have collapsed the way it did. Look at barriers on public roads - when hit at the angle of this accident, even by a 44T truck, they retain and hold back the "projectile". From my few views of the armco from the other side, I've seen 6x6 posts compared to the tin sticks they use on the road. They don't normally move much.

[Hubble]

Originally Posted by Jimmy Magnusson

I don't think driving standars should really come into discussion. While it's an important topic of its own, the tracks should always be safe enough that the cars won't leave the confines of the circuit. Coupled with the SEAT crash out on the GP loop it is clear MSV needs to have a good long look at Brands very soon, because we can't just rely on dumb luck to get us through safe and sound.

The circuit is fine, maybe some additional measures can be implemented in the wake of these two freak accidents (that's what I believe they were) - MSV have made a lot of safety improvements to their circuits and facilities over the past few years, I certainly don't believe JP has scrimped on things.....

I don't think you can ever truly plan for every eventuality, especially with high powered open wheel cars racing in close proximity - anything can happen.... Motorsport will always have dangers for participants and spectators alike, that's part of the appeal. If you were to sanitise it completely nobody would want to watch it, or be able to enjoy it due to the distance from the action and overly intrusive debris/catch fencing

[R59]

I too think the circuit is fine as is. No extra fencing required in my opinion.

What is needed here is to check and ensure that all of the armco supports are in good condition, and adequate.

[chezza]

The issue is as has been said in another thread, there needs to be a careful balance between stopping the car and ensuring that the barrier absorbs the energy of the incident and therefore not transferring that energy to the driver and causing injury. If the barrier is too hard it will mean that great injury to the driver, if it is too soft then we see cars leaving the circuit. Fortunately in the UK the amount of cars leaving the circuit is quite minimal.

Road barriers will stop a 44T truck, but that stop can also cause great injury when a car hits it at speed. I'm glad I don't have to do all the calculations to work out that balance for a race circuit.

[Shawn]

There's a fine line between an armco and it's post's that are too solid and those that give on impact.
Remember back to earlier this year when Robert Kubica has his accident...
It was a public road armco where the posts stayed upright and it's the armco itself that failed.

Refresh your memory here

Both are freak incidents in my amatuer opinion and are the type that just can't be planned for.
The circuit along with others around the globe will no doubt look closely at last weeks circumstances and will make the necessary amendments.

[terence]

Just about all of this thread would have meant nothing IF one of the drivers involved had backed off! There is NO issue as to the armco or anything else safety wise,this was purely driver error.

[Eric Falce]

Originally Posted by terence bower

Just about all of this thread would have meant nothing IF one of the drivers involved had backed off! There is NO issue as to the armco or anything else safety wise,this was purely driver error.

Exactly my thoughts as well.

[kjw]

100% agree. What some UK drivers seem to forget is that for most of us it is club racing not British Touring Cars. It is just for fun and the results are soon forgotten.

[Al Weyman]

Yep too much of it now, I agree Terry. Televised BTCC has a lot to answer for.

[Ian Sowman]

The last couple of posts, referring to BTCC, by implication are making reference to 'deliberate' contact. That certainly was not the case in this instance.

The consensus view from those that saw the whole thing unfold, including myself, was that this was a racing incident with particularly savage consequences.

[R59]

Originally Posted by Ian Sowman

The last couple of posts, referring to BTCC, by implication are making reference to 'deliberate' contact. That certainly was not the case in this instance.

The consensus view from those that saw the whole thing unfold, including myself, was that this was a racing incident with particularly savage consequences.

That was my view Ian. I still feel that the armco's support was too feeble, whether that's because they were rotten (but well painted), or just weak, is neither here nor there. The barrier folded over allowing the car to be pointed in the general direction of up.

[MGDavid]

Originally Posted by Ian Sowman

The last couple of posts, referring to BTCC, by implication are making reference to 'deliberate' contact. ...............

I have to say I did not read it that way at all. There is a world of difference between deliberate contact and avoidable contact, although the latter does include the former.