Free Simulator test...any takers?

[gregc]

Nice one, thanks

[chunder]

Barnett, I drove Nurburgring GP track and Suzuka, surprised you could fit in the cockpit as you are a similar size.

I could fit in OK, but found it very hard to get full lock on the wheel without it hitting my tummy, and I aint big!!

Maybe the stem from the wheel could be shorter? Also I was a bit uncomfy in the hips area!! Was a tight squeeze, I reckon I might be bigger than I thought!

Was great fun though and as you said, the feeling was second nature after a few seconds.

[barnettracing]

CMS Silverstone Arena GP Circuit

Here is the onboard video from my helmet camera of my fastest two laps from yesterday's simulator session at Cranfield. Hope you all enjoy it. The video is up to 1080 HD for anyone who wants every minor detail.

[spider]

Great great film. Looks like we're going to shoot a full-on promo.

We've now settled on a £115 p/hour, with £200 for 2 hours, in the current spec.

The system you guys will trial out in Jan again will be with the platform - which Dan took delivery of yesterday and is working with the Aerospace team to build it up over the next few weeks...

[chunder]

Blimey, looks we got a bargain guys!

I do hope you can get the kind of market you are looking for guys, would be a shame for this kind of sideways thinking to not find a use somewhere, the military seat market is nowhere near as big obviously, but rather more life threatening!

So I think there is a market, especially for training, just try and get the other one back to pair them up!! Then you have something people would pay for I feel!

[barnettracing]

Glad you enjoyed the video. It was fun making it! I'm glad it shows my slide at Maggots/Becketts as that was when I forgot I was in a sim and the adrenalin really kicked in hard!

The platforms are definitely going to help both the immersion and the feeling when you are traction limited. Counting down the days until January.

[tristancliffe]

I enjoyed the experience greatly. Not only was it fun, it was quite educational, and I liked that you all seemed genuinely interested in our feedback and thoughts based on our previous experiences (as racers or sim-racers). Especially when you made changes instantly to see the result.

If I'd had force feedback I'd have beaten Josh's time. Honest!! Was much better without traction control and ABS as I could steer the car on the throttle more and use the brake balance to get better corner entry.

Will be scribbling something up about it, and telling my teammate to come down and give it a go, especially after the new stuff is added in the new year. I'll come down and race-engineer him!

Genuinely impressed by the feedback the g-cueing systems provides, especially in high speed/high-G situations. The nature of all sims is that low speed stuff is almost too subtle to feel through the pneumatic pads and steering feedback, but it's still there once you attune to it. The hardest part of the simulator (and I think this applies to all simulations) is letting go of not having REAL feedback and getting your brain used to using the sound and forcefeedback as the major cues. That takes around 20 minutes in my experience, which is why the racers struggled initially.

Would love to try the F3 stuff on the Snetterton layout as I know it fairly well.

Some words will come in your direction at some point for the write up, hopefully before the week is out.

[tristancliffe]

Oh, and if you happen to get a spare steering wheel with all those buttons on... Can I have it?!?!?!?!?!?!? Either for my home sim steering wheel or the real racing car - that'd confuse my rivals if I had that many switches. I wouldn't tell them they didn't do anything!!!

[ECW Dan Selby]

Ahhh sorry mate lmao the name Chunder makes a helluva lot more sense now after our conversation..!

Been a little busy but will defo get footage up when I can!

Btw, it was so funny hearing you take the 130R flatout... 'ARRRGHHHHHA HA HA!' lmao

Dan

[nickyf1]

Chunderous times after a heavy sesh of drinking

[chunder]

Haha, Selby, I didnt realise you could hear me!

Was awesome fun though, glad to have been involved, not sure about the drinking bit, I am teetotal!

[MJones94]

Are there still places for testing the rig? If so I would be more than happy to test it out. I do not have much racing experience as such so that would put me at a disadvantage. I also live about 5 minutes away which is pretty handy.

[spider]

MJ94 - yes, there will be on the next test.

Dan's building-up the Vehicle Actuator Platform, which basically moves the tub an inch or two, to give the spine-sensation of movement (without the ridiculous tilts of some sims).

That should be built-up over the next few weeks. Will be getting the original set back in there - Tristan, Josh, Rob, Dan etc - all your feedback has already brought the whole project hugely forward

In fact - we're just concluding a deal to put a few of these in somewhere...but can't say where yet...! We'll get you down for the launch of that, when it's concluded...

[spider]

Originally Posted by tristancliffe

Oh, and if you happen to get a spare steering wheel with all those buttons on... Can I have it?!?!?!?!?!?!? Either for my home sim steering wheel or the real racing car - that'd confuse my rivals if I had that many switches. I wouldn't tell them they didn't do anything!!!

Just seen this Well, there is that spare one on the side which Dan doesn't know what to do with

[Peat]

Spider,

Is this something Cranfield have built from scratch or something you are developing for someone?

I know that Uni of Hertfordshire have a Cruger simulator for example.

I am keen to have a go in one of these hydraulic rigs someday, i tried the things down at Pure Tech Racing last year and was thoroughly disappointed.

[ss_collins]

I got a sneak preview of it in the summer and it is great, you will learn as a driver

[spider]

Peat - bizarrely, I think I saw you down at C100 Whilton Mill back in October from afar - recognise that lid in your snap. Was down there talking to my old buddy JV...

Yes, Cranfield have developed the seat, based on their existing Fighter-Simulator seat, used for pilots.

PTR...well...I'll gladly talk to you about my thoughts on their facility offline Fair to say we have a few advantages over them:

1) Our G-force seat creates sustained G-cueing, while other sims can't (due to the type of platform they sit on).
2) Ours uses real circuits
3) The immersion level is far more realistic - you're in a room, alone - makes a big difference I can tell you. Oliver Rowland used our sim (over at GPR) for the 2nd half of the season, and it's fair to say he did ok after that...! We're creating a Case Study on OR at the moment. In fact, whoever comes down to our next run will be up against him...

But it's an expensive bit of kit at the moment due to the R&D costs. We're luckily though, very close to getting that cost right down with a few announcements we'll have by the end of Jan...

[spider]

Also, this was developed for 2 F1 teams, one who had a driver who suffered heavy motion sickness. That's how it initially came about, now that project's nearly finished, we're looking at taking the technology into a more corporate market...

[Peat]

Indeed, that would have been me. If you are at any other C100 meetings come and say hello.

Good stuff, i'm a regular sim racer too so any developments like this are of interest. Indeed the PTR rigs only have 2 (very limited) axis of movement so they just sort of 'run out' of sensation after a second or 2. Most off-putting.

I will have to keep an eye out for news on your simulator.

Cheers

Peat

[spider]

Well, I'll be heading out for a few Heavyweight outings this year, so we'll have some on-track fun too

Yes, basically that's the issue we've resolved with the current rig/seat we have developed. Think it's fair to say you'll be impressed. Fancy a run in it at the end of Jan?

[Peat]

If time/date suits then absolutely, thanks!

[NJH]

Wow this sounds brilliant. Those of you like Tristan who have used sim games but are real racers would you say this provide the missing link?

I note for example that there are endless spats over on the iRacing forums about what is real or not which I always find amusing as you only have about 1/10 of what a real car gives you whether its iRacing or rFactor or anything else.

[chunder]

In my experience as only a gamer rather than a racer it seems to make very little difference if you have raced before.

I went on Iracing for free a while back and within a month had quite a few wins on both oval and long tracks, against people who raced the same cars and one guy who was even pretty good at the track we raced on. I was pretty damn quick on the short ovals in a Legend and would be invariably be in the top 3 times, though races are a bit of a medley!!

It has little to do with your ability to drive a normal car, all you need is the ability to learn what works in the sim and drive to the limits of that sim. The best sim racers can often not drive at all, they have no bad habits and fully understadn the game physics and how they work, something 99% of sim racers don;t or cant do.

I would sugest that if you can drive well enough on the track or road for that matter and take a genuine interest in what makes you quicker, lines, braking, bumps etc you will find it easier to go well on a sim, provided the game engine is good and the physics are up to scratch.

I have only done one track day (at the nordschliefe!) and was fine with it, was pushing well enough and would like to think in a proper racecar would be able to hold my own.

A sim can only help this as it can (with the right guidance and people) teach you loads about track layout, lines, grip etc. Especially Iracing as it has laser scanned tracks that are bang on.

[barnettracing]

Originally Posted by NJH

Wow this sounds brilliant. Those of you like Tristan who have used sim games but are real racers would you say this provide the missing link?

Hi NJH,

As one of the testers of the Cranfield rig in December, a 'real-life' racer and now (thanks to Christmas) a Logitech G27, the g-cueing simulator does indeed provide the missing link.

Obviously a simulator, no matter how good will never be 100% comparable to real life (otherwise it would cease to be a simulation). Driving at home with the Logitech is good fun and can hone my technique to a small degree. With the force feedback motors you can accustom reasonably well to the grip in low/medium/high corner. However, there is no bodily sensation and, as Chunder says, a lot of your speed will come through learning the game physics.

In the Cranfield Motorsport Simulator the pressure pads in the seat create the g-motion sensations that you experience in a real car as hydraulic rams cannot accurately regenerate the sensations of real life (this is the reason why many real racers are left disappointed by such systems). The CMS though left me with the same smile on my face that I get when I drive my Van Diemen.

There is still a degree of 'learning the game', especially as I was chucked in at the deep-end coming from a real, mechanical grip, 110bhp FF1600 car to a simulated 740bhp, aero grip F1 machine. Despite this, I believe the rig is almost definitely the missing link. The high speed control that you are imbued with thanks to the pressurisation really helped you feel the motion of the car (just see my YouTube clip - the link is earlier in the thread - and you will find that you can control a 7th gear slide through Maggots/Becketts).

With the (slight) moveable platforms that are being added to enable the sensation of wheelspin etc and the other changes that are being made on the back of further research and suggestions from myself, Tristan, Chunder and the others, this rig is only going to improve.

Long-winded post I know, but I really feel this technology really is a cut above the rest in terms of its motion-sensation creation. The only thing it is limited, really, is car and track models (it uses rFactor) but as Dan didn't create the software that is not his problem. Dan and James are also really helpful people to deal with, which always makes things easier to develop.

I can't wait to go up against Rowland later in January, and it will be interesting to see if my home simulation has improved my acclimatisation speed (I've been practicing my reactions in the GT5 Red Bull X2010!)

[spider]

Chunder/Barnett - you're better than me at explaining it Knew it was a good idea to get you both down there!

On-site today at Silverstone with Olly Rowland, who's doing some hot laps and a video...nice!