End of the road for Ford Falcon and Holden Commodore

[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by Tourer

Yep, let's see but fully maintained finance packages (which are what you referred to in your initial post) have been around for years from the prestige finance arms - also at volume dealers although offered through the finance companies rather than manufacturer finance arms. Mountainstar is right, not just for the USA - this type of finance has been around a long time.

Strange that Toyota are only decentralising fleet activity now - others have again been doing it for a very long time.

Toyota makes shedloads from their fleet deals.. some of the most successful ones, and where the buyback/fixed cost per month deals works is with Coca Cola, supplying a variety of different models for their demonstration, corporate & executive fleets... decentralising this may change the go to market model a fair bit...

[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by Umai Naa

Honestly, I had a fairly good understanding of how it all worked, but trying to coerce a employer (at the time) to provide clear-cut information on it was difficult. There also seemed to be no defined strategy in place that would ensure maximum benefit to the dealership. In its execution, or lack thereof, it appeared to be nothing more than a foot-shooting exercise, that saw plummeting customer satisfaction, and surveys that were probably spat on.

However, there were representitives of the franchises involved, claiming that these particular concepts were very successful, providing the playbook was adhered to absolutely.

I am not sure many dealers have a longer term strategy here... the simple solution to everything is to put the price up.. impossible if you are in a fixed price servicing scenario... so you have to find ways to eke more from the customer.

The good ones make the customer feel like they needed to do the work, the poor ones makes the customer annoyed, and even more disenfranchised with motor dealers & mechanics...

All reflected in the net promoter scores from customer surveys...

I have seen some work around increasing things like environmental levies for waste disposal, oils or tyres or other things... plus charging more and more for service loan cars..

I dont see how any of these things actually enhance the customer experience...

[Gaz170]

Some dealers don't get it. The last car I bought, discussed with salesperson a figure of $x per week. Chose a car to suit this. Then spoke to finance manager who after added extra undisclosed charges came up with a figure 50% per week higher.

Ended up getting same car from different dealer for $x-5 per week, all inclusive.

[Umai Naa]

Yeah, the new car buying experience isn't what it could be.

My own mother had a situation where the salesman demanded to know how much she could afford a week on it, refusing to give her a bottom-line figure. When she complained to the dealer principal, his reposonse basically said that as long the guy is selling cars, his job is perfectly safe.

The same guy dragged my sister in off the forecourt, sat her down, and tried to get her to sign her name away to a holding fee of something like $500, which was apparently "standard procedure". Mind you, she hadn't even sat in the car she was hoping to buy, because he wanted to sell her something else. Thankfully, she told him to jam it, and went elsewhere.

[GTRMagic]

It actually seems very hard to lose your gig as a car sales person.

Targets are relatively simple, you are required to sell a certain volume of vehicles, with a minimum gross margin..

For the most part, the dealership brings in the warm-ish leads for you, the internet channels driving foot traffic, making genuine appointments with sales staff, who are then charged with converting those leads into sales within particular margin parameters.

But thats not where the fun stops.

The reason some car salespeople indicate that car X is better than car Y is the volume of sales incentives on one compared to the other.

Most dealerships are focused heavily on their cashflows, on maintaining the minimum number of cars on their floorplan finance, and knowing that most financiers have a trigger point in age of cars where they have to be paid out.

So... for example, a brown Ford Falcon XR6 might have been on the books for 75 days, and the dealership is obligated to buy this car off the floorplan when it 90 days of age.

To make sure that doesnt happen, the dealership incentivises the sales staff, offering bonuses of $250, $500, $750 or more to clear this particular item of inventory...

Meantime, Fred Bloggs wants a white XR6. Goes to his local Ford dealer who has the brown XR6 in stock that is getting very ripe in age.

Sales person listens to the requirements.. Takes the prospective customer for a test drive... get them to feel the product, love the product... to create the emotional attachment with the car..

They discuss a deal.. the prospective buyer says he wants a white one.. sales person tells him the whites ones are scarce and it might take some time (weeks/months/never..) to source. Might even go away from the desk to appear to talk to someone in stock control out the back.

But there is this brown one over here. Same spec as the one you want. You can pick it up on Wednesday.

Plays to the emotional attachment to the car, how great it is to drive, how great it is to be seen in, pushes all the right buttons on the prospective customer such that the faster he/she/it gets into that car becomes the primary imperative

Sold.. one brown XR6... to a customer who didnt want that colour really... and the salesperson gets their sale, at a good margin, and with a nice aged stock kicker along for the ride.

And.. the dealership (and manufacturer) surveys the customer, who gives glowing feedback because the emotional attachment to the car has overridden the sensibilities of the deal.

Which the sales person also gets a bonus on...

Allegedly of course

[Kingair]

Notice Ford are really ramping up the advertising Fiesta, Focus and Territory but no mention of the Falcon


People are pretty dumb when it comes to getting cars serviced, and the old dealers/smooth talking service manager certainly touch them along! Inlaws bought a Barina and the dealer put together a special service plan for them, pity the car only does 5,000 kms a year- it is a Barina not the space shuttle and it will need a service every 10,000 km.

[aj_308]

Originally Posted by mountainstar

Oh you guys don't have that?

We've had that for over 20 years.

um, we have too, for 25 years that I know of.

How is an operating lease new GTR? There's at least 5 leasing companies in Australia with over 20,000 Operating leases on their books?

Back on topic, I can't feel sorry for Ford.

Consumers have spoken and said that they don't want large cars (see Corolla and Mazda 3 sales increases in the last 5 years)
The Govt. coughs up our tax money to Ford in the way of grants..
..so they put a 4 cylinder and gas into the Falcon no-one wants to buy.

Holden at least wised up and found the Cruze from the international GM car bin. Its selling pretty good for what it is.

[Downoz]

If Ford keeps building 400 kw cars like this, be a good thing http://www.carsguide.com.au/news-and...gt_police_car/

[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by aj_308

um, we have too, for 25 years that I know of.

How is an operating lease new GTR? There's at least 5 leasing companies in Australia with over 20,000 Operating leases on their books?

Its headed for the mainstream, to the mass market... not just for those who are clever enough to know it exists

Toyota Financial Services has some amazing firepower, able to borrow in Japan at almost 0%, resell the cash here at 6+%... its kind of a wait and see.

A couple of others financiers are planning something similar...

[pigs fly]

Originally Posted by Marcos WTF

Agreed. frod marketing seems more focused ( no pun) on 'conectivity' so one can plug in ya MP3/smartphone/ whatever gadget is flavour of the month).

WTF happened to extolling the things that actually matter in a car?
You know. Minor stuff like performance, safety, enconomy, looks, price etc.
frod are just xxxxing on their heritage. Such as it was

TOO true frod just keep stuffing it up and I don't feel sorry for management but really sorry for workers who will pay with thier jobs.

[kittle]

THE clash of the titans is over. Ford's Falcon and Holden's Commodore will likely be phased out within months of each other in 2016.

Holden will continue to manufacture cars to at least 2022
Ford likely to shut its factories by the end of 2016

With both companies producing poor quality cars it was going to happen soon.

http://www.news.com.au/business/comp...-1226554833139

[NZSTfan]

Yes this is a shame for many no doubt. But times move on and i dont think we could have believed that the falcon vs commodore battle would go on forever.

I guess its evolution of the car manufacturing industry?

Personally though i dont think its the end of the world (just my opinion). You will always see cool cars at race tracks as motorsport will never die!

I even caught a glimpse of electric car racing a while back. A little weird for sure, for one there wasn't much noise, but still racing is racing.

People want smaller, smarter and more efficient cars - and this will eventually be translated into the cars we see at the track of the future.

Any good business moves with the times, and i think your link supports that.

As i said a shame for sure, but something that ultimately m/sport wont be immune from

[Umai Naa]

Oh well.

You can only churn out lousy product after lousy product for so long.

[Bevan-L]

Originally Posted by Umai Naa

Oh well.

You can only churn out lousy product after lousy product for so long.

Are they really a lousy product? dont own any of their models but looking at them here and there, I cant say their cars are lousy.... about the only cries I hear from owners seem to be their experiences with Dealers/servicing etc

[Umai Naa]

The overall build quality could be a lot better.

V6 motors in the Commodores aren't known for their reliability either.

[NZSTfan]

For me personally, and this is just my opinion, the VE commodore is one of the best looking sedans out at the moment. Its not as aggressive front on like the falcon, but man its got a great arse! Simple in design admittedly, but some of the best cars often are.

have never owned one and more than likely never will. I had the option of buying a SS-V with 6spd manual a while back, but it just didn't float my boat. But to look at....phwooaar! I felt like a midget driving it even though i am over 6 foot tall! I often get the omega and SV6 as hire cars and they are always a blast. The XR6 on the other hand has an awful gearbox and doesn't have the right feel as the commie. Still gets up and boogies though....

In the end i went with a Mazda 6 2.5L sporthatch (in black) with the 6spd manual....rare as rocking horse do-do's (manual versions that is), but a good drive nonetheless, and not bad on the 'looks' front.

The new falcon, from what i've seen looks the business, but i'm not sold on the VF looks-wise

[bluesport]

My son-in-law rented a Falcon G6 ecoboost while on holiday recently and loved it........he owns a honda himself.

[Umai Naa]

Originally Posted by NZSTfan

For me personally, and this is just my opinion, the VE commodore is one of the best looking sedans out at the moment. Its not as aggressive front on like the falcon, but man its got a great arse! Simple in design admittedly, but some of the best cars often are.

have never owned one and more than likely never will. I had the option of buying a SS-V with 6spd manual a while back, but it just didn't float my boat. But to look at....phwooaar! I felt like a midget driving it even though i am over 6 foot tall! I often get the omega and SV6 as hire cars and they are always a blast. The XR6 on the other hand has an awful gearbox and doesn't have the right feel as the commie. Still gets up and boogies though....

In the end i went with a Mazda 6 2.5L sporthatch (in black) with the 6spd manual....rare as rocking horse do-do's (manual versions that is), but a good drive nonetheless, and not bad on the 'looks' front.

The new falcon, from what i've seen looks the business, but i'm not sold on the VF looks-wise

That's just it. The current Falcon and Commodore are fantastic-looking cars. They represent great value-for-money in quite a few trim levels, and have decent performance, too. Just very poorly executed.

[NZSTfan]

Originally Posted by Umai Naa

That's just it. The current Falcon and Commodore are fantastic-looking cars. They represent great value-for-money in quite a few trim levels, and have decent performance, too. Just very poorly executed.

Yes thats possibly true but then again look at the similar-ish rivals in the same price bracket.......Toyota Camry (yuk), Nissan maxima (funny looking), and that old Mitsi 380 thing, and probably others too. All bung front wheel drive BIG cars. And with that in mind one would have to say that the cooners and commies are not that bad. But i totally get what your saying when you up the anti a little....e.g Beemer, merc, audi et al

[RedZedMikey]

Originally Posted by NZSTfan

The XR6 on the other hand has an awful gearbox and doesn't have the right feel as the commie. Still gets up and boogies though....

Interested to know what the gearbox was - manual, or 4/5/6 speed auto? I have a BF XR6 with the ZF 6 speed, I reckon it's a great trans. The car has the OEM heavy duty tow kit, has towed my Z from Melb to Morgan Park and back capably and legally. Makes a hell of a lot better daily driver than the options I might be facing from 2016 onwards ... guess I'd better keep it in good condition!

I have very little interest in my next daily/towcar being a Navara, Hi-Lux, Ranger, Colorado etc.

[Trevor]

and how many of you ****-baggers have actually bought the product and supported the local jobs, **** all I bet, 2nd hand doesn't count, new products do.

[mountainstar]

I don't think either company knows for sure what they are doing yet. In both cases a similar car might still exist, just that it will not be built in Australia.

The Falcon as it is, is just an orphan in the worldwide Ford lineup. It doesn't have anything that transfers over to any other major market. What I have heard is Ford possibly making a rear wheel drive sedan based off of the Mustang platform(probably under the Lincoln nameplate here) around 2015 or so and possibly this could be the next Falcon, just that it will not be made in Australia.

Same with the Commodore. There might still be a RWD sedan around, just not made in Australia.

[Umai Naa]

Originally Posted by Trevor

and how many of you ****-baggers have actually bought the product and supported the local jobs, **** all I bet, 2nd hand doesn't count, new products do.

Holden's eqivilant of the new car that I bought is complete garbage, and I couldn't afford a Focus.

[Mixer]

That graph still shows Holden selling more than 20k more Commodores than Ford Falcons, I wonder where Holden's break-even point is with their export deals?

[bluesport]

Originally Posted by Mixer

That graph still shows Holden selling more than 20k more Commodores than Ford Falcons, I wonder where Holden's break-even point is with their export deals?

Yeah, but isn't the Territory eating into the Falcon sales? If so, Ford are losing sales from one of their products to another of their products.