2014 Liqui Moly Bathurst 12 Hour: 7-9 February (Merged)

[peckstar]

Originally Posted by one five five

the Ferrari is allowed to do a 2m04 in the 12hr (race) without penalty. The 2m06 benchmark time applies only to practice & qualifying

the Blancpain Endurance Series has absolutley no 'benchmark times' in its rules, they attempt to even up the contest in other races (car tinkering, extra weight etc..)

BATHURST 12 HOUR QUALIFYING PRIZE SET

Disappointingly for both fans and drivers, a minimum time of 2:08.0s has been put in place for the event, with any time set below the benchmark to be disallowed.
In addition, if a car is found to have gone under the minimum time in either practice or qualifying, 50kg of ballast will be added to the car prior to the race.
The system is based on that used in the Stephane Ratel Organisation’s Blancpain Endurance Series, from which the Bathurst 12 Hour’s ‘Balance of Performance’ parity regulations are set.
The regulations ensure that the blistering 2:04.9s lap set by Allan Simonsen in Maranello Motorsport’s Ferrari 458 GT3 during last year’s Drive Bathurst event will not be eclipsed.

[Number25]

I am amazed at how many people on here still don't understand these regulations and when they apply. Without naming names, maybe some people should spend less time nit-picking and criticising what they obviously don't understand and go read the regulations.

Also, Multi class racing is the essence of Sportscar racing and part of the skill is negotiating your way through the traffic and reading a situation. The pinnacle of Sportscar racing is Le Mans and I realize the difference in the tracks etc but in 2012 the difference between pole position and last was 40 seconds and in 2011 it was a 47 second difference. Nurburgring 24 last year had a difference between Pole and last of 3 minutes and 34 seconds. When worked out over a time and distance ratio, that is much worse than Bathurst! Like I said I realize they're different tracks etc but just have a think about that.

I will also say though, some of the driving seen last weekend was very ordinary and not just in the production classes, which doesn't help. There is a huge mix of driver talent in all classes with a lot of hugely talented drivers also in the lower classes who simply don't have the big budgets. Keep all the classes and the 130% rule if need be. If 12 year old Saloon Cars with basically standard motors can lap Bathurst in 2:36.00, modern production cars shouldn't have a problem lapping around 2:43.00.

If you can't cut it, you can't cut it. Cop it on the chin!

Just sayin

[peckstar]

Originally Posted by Number25

I am amazed at how many people on here still don't understand these regulations and when they apply. Without naming names, maybe some people should spend less time nit-picking and criticising what they obviously don't understand and go read the regulations.

Also, Multi class racing is the essence of Sportscar racing and part of the skill is negotiating your way through the traffic and reading a situation. The pinnacle of Sportscar racing is Le Mans and I realize the difference in the tracks etc but in 2012 the difference between pole position and last was 40 seconds and in 2011 it was a 47 second difference. Nurburgring 24 last year had a difference between Pole and last of 3 minutes and 34 seconds. When worked out over a time and distance ratio, that is much worse than Bathurst! Like I said I realize they're different tracks etc but just have a think about that.

I will also say though, some of the driving seen last weekend was very ordinary and not just in the production classes, which doesn't help. There is a huge mix of driver talent in all classes with a lot of hugely talented drivers also in the lower classes who simply don't have the big budgets. Keep all the classes and the 130% rule if need be. If 12 year old Saloon Cars with basically standard motors can lap Bathurst in 2:36.00, modern production cars shouldn't have a problem lapping around 2:43.00.

If you can't cut it, you can't cut it. Cop it on the chin!

Just sayin

maybe you should keep that argument in the appropriate discusion.

I'm amazed that someone wants to carry that discusion into another thread.

just sayin

[Number25]

It's all appropriate you legend.

[peckstar]

Well i will tell you what

if you could just give me a link to the 2014 regulations that apparently you have read and understand. I will read them.

whats that they havent been written yet. and you havent read them.

oh dear. blown apart on your first sentance. Do i really need to bother with the rest

now enough of the personal comments, lets get back onto discussing the 2014 race.

getting rid of the minimum times is good its what many want. a 2.04 would however see two cars eliminated from this year, although i reckon with the new track, they could push into 2.03

[Number25]

If you had any clue you'd be dangerous!

[peckstar]

Originally Posted by Number25

If you had any clue you'd be dangerous!

did you get the 2014 regulations yet?

then you could tell us what classes they were going to have in 2014

[Number25]

[Woolley]

Oh, goodness, we've got a whole year of this...

[peckstar]

Originally Posted by Woolley

Oh, goodness, we've got a whole year of this...

Maybe not. If you move the thread to where it belongs maybe the bogans wont come here

[Oldtony]

I think 25 the problem is nit-pecking.
And we have some stars at that who seem to enjoy their work.

[peckstar]

Originally Posted by Oldtony

I think 25 the problem is nit-pecking.
And we have some stars at that who seem to enjoy their work.

Anything add about the 2014 race old tony? do you know what classes are going to be there in 2014

or are you just coming on here to play the man. again

[mayhem]

At Bathurst I've been to more 1000's than I can remember, I've been to 24 hour races, I've been to Festival of Speeds and even seen Super Motard. And now I've been to the 12 Hour, and I gotta say, it blew me away at how seriously cool the event is. Lamborghinis on track with Seats, Ferraris and GTs, it was like a car lovers smorgasbord. Small crowds gave freedom to move around that you can only dream of in October, especially appreciated when you have a youngster who's only just started coming to car races. I love the V8s there, the event has a vibe that I've never experienced at any other race (including Clipsal), but there was something about the 12 Hour that was just as special, it was certainly a spectacle, and something of a rarity to go to a race and not know that only one of four cars are likely to win. Brilliant, I hope this race lives forever, and gets even bigger and better.

P.S. Some things stay the same no matter what the event, two hot dogs (bun, frankfurt and sauce sachet) and two bottles of water: $22. Fair dinkum those prices would make a store owner at the airport blush...

[Oldtony]

Sorry pecky, that was a bit below the belt.
But you do sort of set yourself up for it.
No I don't know any more than you about the 2014 regs.
And people on here are discussing desires and possibilities, not detailed facts.
My personal hopes are that they will have a dark start, that they will look at the class structure a bit to do something about speed differential, and they will drop the crazy idea of having a seperate GT race mixed up in the critical, high traffic, go for ir competitive situationthat is the first hour.
Other than that, open the practice times up to a no penalty situation.
If the pole is to be decided on combined driver times, then the 130% qualification should be on the same basis.
Perhaps we could take the individual maximum driver time out to 5 hour but with a 3 hour stint limit.
There should be no limits on times run by any competitor, but I can understand the reasons for the Invitation class limits to avoid a 6litre special like the Monaros being built to make the whole thing a farce as happened to the 24hr. Maybe that is a reason for dropping invitation classes, although that would detract from the VLN like mix in the field.
And b*****r the doctors, next year I am going to be there.

[D.R.T.]

Originally Posted by peckstar

do you know what classes are going to be there in 2014

I reckon there is a massive chance the classes will include GT3, GT4, Performance, Production and Invitational Class.

Call me crazy but I might even put the house on it

[peckstar]

Originally Posted by D.R.T.

I reckon there is a massive chance the classes will include GT3, GT4, Performance, Production and Invitational Class.

Call me crazy but I might even put the house on it

Only 5 classes then, good

No commodore cup like in 2011?

and are you really sure they are keeping production. It seems like it was a class that was hung onto to get over the change to GT3 and with only 8 cars turning up in 2013 (one of which didnt qualify), instead of 50 in 2010. I wonder if this might be something they will get rid off.

[D.R.T.]

Can easily fit into invitational class.

Why is 5 classes good (or even bad for that matter)?

Tecnically there will be more classes as such as there is GT3 - A and GT3 B for the older spec GT3 cars but they are all GT3 so lets not get to caught up on details (all thought I just have)

[peckstar]

Originally Posted by D.R.T.

Can easily fit into invitational class.

Why is 5 classes good (or even bad for that matter)?

Tecnically there will be more classes as such as there is GT3 - A and GT3 B for the older spec GT3 cars but they are all GT3 so lets not get to caught up on details (all thought I just have)

In my opinion 5 classes is good because it means at Bathurst each class will have an average of ten cars, more or less.

Really i have little desire to be engaged in a class of 3 or 4 cars, especially when usually 1 or 2 have a problem and the remaining ones end up seperated by laps.

And based on my review of the recent race, no one else does either, absolutely zero talk about them.

As this race gets bigger we ideally end up with good size fields in all classes and eliminate the classes that are making up the numbers.

Hopefully for 2014, they can get a better live timing system, the current oen is not up to current standard (has pretty pictures though, just lacks information)

[alfacors]

You're welcome for the pretty pictures. As for the rest of the timing, I wasn't following the web-based one so I can't comment on it's effectiveness or lack of. I believe there are plans afoot for some improved web coverage for next year though, there was some miscommunication between RLM and AVE this year which caused a few issues with regards to the streaming too.

[peckstar]

Originally Posted by alfacors

You're welcome for the pretty pictures. As for the rest of the timing, I wasn't following the web-based one so I can't comment on it's effectiveness or lack of. I believe there are plans afoot for some improved web coverage for next year though, there was some miscommunication between RLM and AVE this year which caused a few issues with regards to the streaming too.

Did you do the pictures on the live timing Alfacors? well done assuming you did.

the site just lacks data. but hey, i recognise that funds are limited. But i can still wish

It was pretty disapointing that that the live stream broke down and then the live timing. There was an interesting discusion about it in the GT forum. I'm not sure why they would discuss it in a GT forum though

[one five five]

Originally Posted by peckstar

maybe you are right, but the benchmark time (2.06) is not mentioned in cams rules anywhere. Its a rule set by the actual race organisers, my understanding is it comes from the Blancpain series regulations.

the 130% is a cams base rule (as you linked and as GTS300 updated) that can be changed (reduced) by series organisers if they want to

If download the rlm podcast of practice & qualifying, you will hear the commentators state that the benchmark time is a CAMS rule.

Blancpain Series doesn't have this rule, you just have to watch the races to see that...

Originally Posted by peckstar

There was an interesting discusion about it in the GT forum. I'm not sure why they would discuss it in a GT forum though

It has been perfectly ok, with permission of the mods, for us to discuss things like Australian GT/Sportscar racing, Sports Sedans (even Aussie NASCAR at some points) etc etc in here for years, i'm not sure why you alone need to kick up a fuss about it all of a sudden now....

[KSM86]

Originally Posted by Oldtony

Sorry pecky, that was a bit below the belt.
But you do sort of set yourself up for it.
No I don't know any more than you about the 2014 regs.
And people on here are discussing desires and possibilities, not detailed facts.
My personal hopes are that they will have a dark start, that they will look at the class structure a bit to do something about speed differential, and they will drop the crazy idea of having a seperate GT race mixed up in the critical, high traffic, go for ir competitive situationthat is the first hour.
Other than that, open the practice times up to a no penalty situation.
If the pole is to be decided on combined driver times, then the 130% qualification should be on the same basis.
Perhaps we could take the individual maximum driver time out to 5 hour but with a 3 hour stint limit.
There should be no limits on times run by any competitor, but I can understand the reasons for the Invitation class limits to avoid a 6litre special like the Monaros being built to make the whole thing a farce as happened to the 24hr. Maybe that is a reason for dropping invitation classes, although that would detract from the VLN like mix in the field.
And b*****r the doctors, next year I am going to be there.

Bathurst 12 Hour-" There will be no benchmark time next year for the outright class"

Bathurst 12 Hour- "Sun 09 Feb 14 will see an earlier start - more to follow later"

Also the z4 will be back next year

[rich07]

Where'd you hear the news about the Z4 KSM?

Personally I'd rather see Schubert to show what really can be done with the car but well who's paying the bills, it aint gonna be BMW Australia..

[KSM86]

Originally Posted by rich07

Where'd you hear the news about the Z4 KSM?

Personally I'd rather see Schubert to show what really can be done with the car but well who's paying the bills, it aint gonna be BMW Australia..

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fb...type=1&theater

Have a read mate. That guy bruce is head manager of Liqui-Moly australia, and it was also stated on their facebook page aswell.

Bruce Morrison-" Understandably everyone wants it live on TV. If that was straight forward to do, it would already have been done. As the major sponsor (LiquiMoly) I can assure all race fans we'll be working very hard with the race organizers to get the race live on FTA Tv in some form for 2014. I'm sure the web streaming issues will be addressed also."

Bruce Morrison-"Team Englster have already confirmed they will be back in 2014 and have vowed to do better"

yeah would be good if BMW Aus got involved.

[Reload]

Will be interesting to see who the supporting categories will be next year.Do the organisers stay loyal to those who have supported them or do they look at making things more attractive and entertaining.
The HQ/Gemini races were a disaster and the Improved Production races were dominated by one car.
Obviously with Clipsal having many of the main support categories on board, it would be difficult to get them to be a part of the weekend.
It would be a greater attraction for the first two days with the TCM and Aussie racing cars for example although probably pie in the sky stuff, especially the TCM.