What is a 'Touring Car'?

[Samwhk]

You're strange bugger FAS.

For the purposes of the championship, they're touring cars. To me, they're closer to sports sedans.

But, are there any top line touring car championships anywhere where the cars are still built from production shells?

It's just the way the sports gone now, in the name of 'parity', speed and safety.

[peckstar]

Originally Posted by Samwhk

You're strange bugger FAS.

For the purposes of the championship, they're touring cars. To me, they're closer to sports sedans.

But, are there any top line touring car championships anywhere where the cars are still built from production shells?

It's just the way the sports gone now, in the name of 'parity', speed and safety.

As per CAMs rules Sports sean are Touring Cars

interesting that CAMS does not have a class for "stock" cars

Maybe "touring" cars in its traditional sense had a different meaning once, but its not longer relevant in the 21st Century. Its been superceded, just like the rotary phone

[Umai Naa]

By design, the're essentially a Sports Sedan.

But in reality, they're a result of evolution of a touring car catagory.

[bluesport]

Sports sedan fullstop.

[TWRv12]

At least they don't make as many safety compromises by using a crap body shell like they have do in other series...

[peckstar]

Originally Posted by bluesport

Sports sedan fullstop.

Which by definition means its a touring car

[Redzone]

Originally Posted by peckstar

Which by definition means its a touring car

So by your definition, a sports sedan could win the atcc then?

+1 for them being a sports sedan though btw.

[peckstar]

Originally Posted by Redzone

So by your definition, a sports sedan could win the atcc then?

+1 for them being a sports sedan though btw.

Not my definition. CAMS definition, over rules everyones opinion on here.

But it couldnt as it doesnt meet the criteria to race for the ATCC,

[D.R.T.]

Originally Posted by peckstar

Not my definition. CAMS definition, over rules everyones opinion on here.

But it couldnt as it doesnt meet the criteria to race for the ATCC,

Care to link us to CAMS definition of sport sedans as touring cars?

[RedZedMikey]

Originally Posted by D.R.T.

Care to link us to CAMS definition of sport sedans as touring cars?

I was intrigued by Pecky's continued reference to it, so had a look myself.
Not strictly a definition, but Sports Sedans are clearly grouped under Touring Cars.

http://www.cams.com.au/motor-sport/cams-manual/race#3rd and scroll down to "3rd Category".

Interesting to note that V8SC were not listed under any category; I guess that's because they write and police their own rules. There is a CAMS spiel on V8SC ~here~ (out of date of course) in which CAMS states "... The sport that is today’s V8 Supercars has evolved from a long and proud tradition of Australian touring car racing ..."

[DX20VT]

IMO if it has 4 opening doors and a boot it is a touring car.

And boot is not a hatchback of a liftback,
a bootspace is separate to the interior of the car.


a touring car does not have to be a production car or built from a road car,
or have any road car parts,

IMO it defines the shape,
definition touring car, Noun, A car designed with room for passengers and luggage.

[one five five]

Originally Posted by bluesport

Sports sedan fullstop.

"Sports Sedan Lite" is a better term, CotF doesn't have the variety that proper Sports Sedan fields have

Originally Posted by peckstar

As per CAMs rules Sports sean are Touring Cars

Yet interestingly, V8Supercars are not listed by CAMS as a touring car.

Perhaps that is the answer to the opening posters question right there, fullstop.

[peckstar]

Originally Posted by one five five

Yet interestingly, V8Supercars are not listed by CAMS as a touring car.

Perhaps that is the answer to the opening posters question right there, fullstop.

So what are they then?

[one five five]

Originally Posted by peckstar

So what are they then?

You tell me, i have no idea?

But according to the Confederation of Australian Motorsport, the local ASN for the FIA, they are not touring cars.

[peckstar]

Originally Posted by one five five

You tell me, i have no idea?

But according to the Confederation of Australian Motorsport, the local ASN for the FIA, they are not touring cars.

Well there is a first for everything, You dont know

I guess, maybe you could read CAMS rules , it helps to explain

[Gaz170]

Originally Posted by Woolley

So why not stick to the subject for once?

C'mon Woolley, since when has that happened at 10 tenths?

[one five five]

Originally Posted by peckstar

Well there is a first for everything, You dont know

When have i claimed to know everything?

Originally Posted by peckstar

I guess, maybe you could read CAMS rules , it helps to explain

You are the one who kept quoting the CAMS listing of Sports Sedans as Touring Cars...yet the 'Touring Car' list you quote has no mention of V8Supercars.

You can't have it both ways, perhaps you can explain for the benefit of everybody?

[chavez]

Way back in 1973 when the Group C regs were introduced the Improved Touring Cars that had raced previously in the ATCC became Sports Sedans.


The development of the V8 Supercar from 1992 to 2013 is similar to the development of the Stock Car in NASCAR. In the interests of safety and reliability Stock Cars evolved from the strictly stock era to today when they barely resemble their road going counterpart.

The development of the V8 Supercar from 1992 to today has seen a similar evolution although to their credit the rule makers have retained a much closer resemblance to the road going counterpart.

I guess over time the meaning of touring car, just like stock car, has changed.

Other changes in terminology include describing Bathurst as a street circuit. Now this is purely nonsense. The public roads which make up the Mt Panorama circuit are not streets, but it is becoming common practice to refer to Bathurst as a street circuit.

[Tourer]

Originally Posted by one five five

Yet interestingly, V8Supercars are not listed by CAMS as a touring car.

Perhaps that is the answer to the opening posters question right there, fullstop.

Of course they're not listed by CAMS as a touring car - v8s are an FIA international series so their technical rules aren't administered by CAMS so aren't included in the CAMS Manual tech rules, which is where pecky's link comes from.

Put simply, CAMS don't list V8s as anything as they are not controlled or administered by CAMS.

[one five five]

Originally Posted by Tourer

Of course they're not listed by CAMS as a touring car - v8s are an FIA international series so their technical rules aren't administered by CAMS so aren't included in the CAMS Manual tech rules, which is where pecky's link comes from.

Put simply, CAMS don't list V8s as anything as they are not controlled or administered by CAMS.

Then what does the FIA have them listed as?

Given CAMS are the local ASN of the FIA, its splitting hairs to say CAMS don't have anything to do with it.

[Tourer]

Not splitting hairs at all - pecky is quoting from the tech rules in the CAMS manual & V8s are not there as CAMS do not administer the V8 category.

The V8s are very much a Touring Car according to the FIA to answer your question, administered under the FIA Touring Car Commission.

[peckstar]

moving on from this current line of discusion.

So now we are satisfied that V8 supercars meet the description of a touring car.

what makes it different to a "stock" car.

As near as i can make out. stock car is a term linked to speedway cars or cars that race predominatly oval shaped tracks
where as touring cars as cars that race predominatly on road circuits or tracks that turn both ways.

[smokin'joe]

depends on where in the world you are.
in NZ, this is a stockcar :

[champcarman]

A V8 Supercar is as much a Touring Car as any other production based category in the world. The starter of this thread must think a normal road car is the only real Touring Car.

[D.R.T.]

Originally Posted by Tourer

Not splitting hairs at all - pecky is quoting from the tech rules in the CAMS manual & V8s are not there as CAMS do not administer the V8 category.

The V8s are very much a Touring Car according to the FIA to answer your question, administered under the FIA Touring Car Commission.

CAMS are the FIA - are they not?