The booing of Vettel & is Vettel a great?

[Adam43]

I'm not keen.

[Richard C]

My wife and one of my children were watching the race live with me (not a usual occurrence as they are not F1 fans). They quickly noticed and asked me about the booing. I said “That is Monza” and “It is sort of expected”. My 11 year old son who likes Ferrari cars (who isn’t a fan at that age) enjoyed seeing the Tifosi out in force, but I am not sure if he made the connection that his tribe was the one acting so poorly.

Richard

[Bononi]

It's Italy and they can do it. Monza is the temple of speed and a race like this weekend doesn't fit the drama of that place.

[davyboy]

Originally Posted by F1Pete

I liked SV early on, seemed like a nice guy (he still is don't get me wrong), but I feel sick and tired just like everyone else. I am not speaking for everyone else, but don't hit at me for saying it.

Originally Posted by MGDavid

F1pete says it all, nothing to add.

Originally Posted by steve_r

I don't like him, and I don't know why. I was at Silverstone, and was pleased when his car broke down. However, thinking rationally, I don't actually know why I don't like him.

Originally Posted by MarkG

Although I will add, that maybe Vettel's unpopularity is because many people don't quite see Vettel as the best there is, and his irritating finger-boy act is seen as him telling everyone he's the best, whereas the reality is he is a top driver lucky enough to have the best car by far these last few years.

I may like him one day if he shows the same results in a lesser car.

We don't like Vettel but we don't know why

[Aysedasi]

I'm largely with MarkG, I have to say.

[Spritle]

If he held up two fingers, would it make some of you feel better...

...directed at you of course.

[Aysedasi]

I'd have probably applauded him if he'd stuck up two fingers at the Tifosi.....

Anyhow, the two finger salute is almost a term of endearment these days compared to single digit gestures......

Enough of this already.

[MGDavid]

Originally Posted by davyboy

We don't like Vettel but we don't know why

OK then, I had a little think.
- he doesn't so much smile as smirk.
- he shows no modesty, with the finger thing
- when he wins he squeals like a girl

In case you couldn't guess, Kimi is my ideal role model as a driver. Not that I care much at all in the grand scheme of things.

[jedrinck]

Maybe his new and more likeable victory gesture should involve raised shoulders, open palms and an apologetic, uneasy smile.

[Mekola]

Singapore streets will give Vettel another scenario to shine and deliver his best smile.

[chunder]

I read an earlier post with some comments about MS and the stuff that went on with him.

That for me is an unfair comparison, I don't see Vettel or Red Bull as cheats, and I seriously doubt Michael knew about things like the fuel rig scandal.

But the TC and launch stuff in 94 maybe so, but then apparently a lot of teams were doing it coz the FIA had no clue back then about ECU's and computers!

Anyway, I don't mind the booing, Seb is a nice fella and comes across well, but his domination does little for the sport, unless you are a German or Red Bull fan (are there any??)

People involved in basic support of F1 are largely xenophobic, but real fans can usually appreciate a good drive or a guy doing things above the call.

THIS is why people rate guys like Kimi and Alonso, Lewis sometimes and Jenson

It is why Hulk got a lot of votes this weekend, even though TR and a few other teams had good races.

Something above and beyond is what we KNOW as fans is a driver making a difference.

You just can't tell with Red Bull, you only have Webber to put it up against and it is fairly obvious that after mid way thru 2010, that team was all about one man to the detriment of car design, fairness and team orders (usually). even before then it was clear Seb was getting the lions share of development.

If you like domination this period is great, same as when Schumi was winning everything and the situation is similar, one guy in a team designed around him, winning from the front, only difference here is a team mate that would beat him if he could, Rubens often was compliant like Massa is now. Webber would certainly not move over now if he was ordered I feel. Maybe in the past.

No one likes this, when you are as dominant as they are, it's bad for everyone. And for some reason the vast majority (me included) prefer to tune in and watch maybe 2 or 3 guys able to win. Right now you know without issues only one man is going to win unless it rains, and this proves little to me, other than Newey is a genius. It cant be satisfying for him either, surely?

I can't judge Seb until he drives something else, it worked for Schumacher, but his greatness was already blunted by the Hill incident, then further by Jacques. And later by being a complete idiot on numerous occasions.

I watch Alonso and he does something magical nearly every race, maybe what Seb does is magic too, it doesn't look it but most people can't be wrong. Kimi too, seems able to do things in a car others cant, as do Lewis and Jenson and one or two others. Seb can too, but right now all we see is a Scalextric car when all the rest have a wet track, and that is about as entertaining as carpet bowls.

He just doesn't SHOW greatness to me right now. He isn't an artist like Prost or Stewart, doesn't have insane speed like Mika or Senna, isn't a great emotional passer and thinker like Alonso or Mansell. He is just a from the front winning machine, and that is why we boo.

If I was him I would play on it, be the panto villain, might get him some support!

I

[JeremySmith]

I think booing Sebastian Vettel is pathetic and very unsportsmanlike ...

[wnut]

Originally Posted by davyboy

We don't like Vettel but we don't know why

Scary isn't it?

Mob psychology?

[Razzzor]

There's only one reason why so many people don't like Seb; because he's dominating. And unless your a fan of his nobody wants to see one driver dominating.

Schumacher was hated for a long time as well, he only gained some respect over the years after he became the underdog and turned Ferrari around. But he was hated more the Seb.

Everyone can pick to pieces all those small things that make them not like him; the finger, the jubilation on the radio, swearing once on the podium (let's just forget that Kimi also swore on the podium right after him), apparently immature?, these are such silly small things. Honestly, you're going to hate someone because they show excitement on the radio after winning a race? That's pathetic.

Someone above mentioned what if it was Kimi doing the dominating. And yep I'm pretty sure Kimi would also be hated... he comes off as very bad tempered, the most sour driver I've ever seen on a podium unless he wins. Has anyone ever seen this video this where Kimi actually literally assaults a child (accidentally) but walks off: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMBP1T_jw5w

I'm not a Kimi hater, I don't mind him in the racing seat, but can you imagine how much hate Seb would get if it was him in that video?

Anyone seen Alonso's restaurant tantrum on youtube? I bet there's lots of other videos like this too of the more popular drivers.

Like I said, people are looking for reasons to justify not liking Vettel but it really just comes down to domination of the sport. And I think also because Webber was such a popular driver, people have not enjoyed Webber being eaten alive for 5 years. Afterall, there's a lot of people around that seem to think there's a conspiracy behind Webber often having car problems. There obviously isn't, and in fact I don't think Vettel gets favoured by the team as much as people make out - if Webber was able to win like Vettel does, they'd be behind him. He was at RB before Vettel was.

Hamilton has also been hated, for different reasons to Vettel, but has become more liked again simply because he's the underdog and gone to Mercedes and turned them around (well, gone to Mercedes at a time when they turned themselves around). And had some unsuccessful years with McLaren.

If Hamilton or Alonso had won the last 3-4 yrs in a row, they'd be just as hated as Vettel, probably moreso, especially Alonso.

What Vettel needs to do if he wants to be liked again is #1 stop winning, #2 do what Hamilton has done and move to a different team.

[chunder]

(Obviously isnt an issue against Webber)

Why does his KERS and DRSalways fail more then Sebs then?

I dont believe anyone can be that unlucky?

Remember how many times Rubens car failed and Michaels never did for years?

I dont call that a coincidence sorry.

[Kempi]

If you do not take that as a coincidence, maybe you can explain why a team would compromise their chances on the WCC, one of the largest sources of finances, by putting less care or even manipulating the second driver's car? Do they rely on the first driver gaining enough points to still win the WCC? How do they avoid mishaps by the first driver, i.e. punctures, being driven off track or other failures?

If you can explain that, I might be willing to look into the conspiracy theory.

[Razzzor]

Originally Posted by chunder

(Obviously isnt an issue against Webber)

Why does his KERS and DRSalways fail more then Sebs then?

I dont believe anyone can be that unlucky?

Remember how many times Rubens car failed and Michaels never did for years?

I dont call that a coincidence sorry.

If it happened when Webber was challenging Vettel for the lead I'd say it's intentional. But it never does. It's just random, at times when it makes no sense for Webber to suddenly have issues. Don't you think if the gear issues at Monza were intentional, they would have told him AFTER he got past Alonso.

A team sabotaging it's own drivers car, when they don't even need to because Mark is usually so far behind Seb that it doesn't make sense? That's pretty unlikely.

The only evidence of it is only that statistically the car failures happen more often to Webber than Vettel. Going by that, Mercedes must have been sabotaging Schumacher last year, because the boss likes Rosberg better.

Also, being that Vettel is often at the front and Webber battling in traffic, could it just be that we hear about it more on Webber's car because he needs kers/drs (whichever it is that keeps failing)? Also, he's often not in clean air, so the car is getting hotter.
I think those will be more likely than sabotage.

[davyboy]

Originally Posted by chunder

People involved in basic support of F1 are largely xenophobic

The common denominator between Schumacher and Vettel being that they're both German.

Originally Posted by chunder

I watch Alonso and he does something magical nearly every race, maybe what Seb does is magic too, it doesn't look it but most people can't be wrong. Kimi too, seems able to do things in a car others cant, as do Lewis and Jenson and one or two others. Seb can too, but right now all we see is a Scalextric car when all the rest have a wet track, and that is about as entertaining as carpet bowls.

The best drivers have always made it look effortless. Clark did. Prost did. Senna did. Schumacher did. It's the nearly men like Mansell, Hamilton, Alonso that seem to be surrounded by drama but yet come short on what's expected of them. It's more entertaining but less successful.

Originally Posted by chunder

He just doesn't SHOW greatness to me right now. He isn't an artist like Prost or Stewart, doesn't have insane speed like Mika or Senna, isn't a great emotional passer and thinker like Alonso or Mansell. He is just a from the front winning machine, and that is why we boo.

You only need to look at seasoned campaigners like Newey who are totally in awe of Vettel. The guy will be a runaway 4 times world champion at the end of this year at the age of 26. Say what you want, but he is already one of the greatest drivers ever.

[karting]

I always believed that Webbers KERS always failed because of Newey refusing to change the packaging of the cars aero to suit a taller driver, therefore everything has to be packaged alot tighter.

Personally i see nothing wrong with that on Neweys side.

Also picking up on peoples comments about Seb being immature.

• What about Alonso stopping in the pits so Hamilton couldnt qualify?

• What about Hamilton saying 'its because im black?'

Both of those two examples above i personally feel are alot of immature than simply celebrating a race win!

Just to clear things up, yes i AM a Vettel fan, infact i supported him when he first drove for BMW for Kubica and did so well.

[davyboy]

Originally Posted by MGDavid

OK then, I had a little think.
- he doesn't so much smile as smirk.
- he shows no modesty, with the finger thing
- when he wins he squeals like a girl

Serious issues for sure. I've no doubt RBR are on to the problem and are in the process of recruiting a smile fixer, a finger bender and a voice deepener to get them sorted.

[chunder]

I wouldn't really call Mansell Alonso or Hamilton nearly men!

That is harsh in the extreme! Mansell made winning look insanely easy in 91 and 92, but then he had a car advantage didn't he? Sound familiar!

As for Alonso, apart from Renault he has rarely been in the best car, a good one maybe but rarely the best.

And Lewis, well he is perhaps a true racer, maybe hampered by being with McLaren at a bad time, and his failings make him human to fans

I cant warm to Automatons.

As for the comment about Michael and Seb being German hence why fans are xenophobic!! I treat that with the contempt it deserves.

THe Newey packaging deal sounds like a factor in Webbers reliability for sure, but to counter argue an earlier poster, why would you make that a reasonable argument to not doing anything about it rather then fixing it so your driver can rack up points and not have the sword of Damocles hanging over him with reliability issues.

[VIVA GT]

Originally Posted by davyboy

Serious issues for sure. I've no doubt RBR are on to the problem and are in the process of recruiting a smile fixer, a finger bender and a voice deepener to get them sorted.

Is this someone by the name of Riciardo?

[jedrinck]

Ricciardo will fit right in as a more grateful, happier Webber.

[leonidas]

I'm torn on this. On the one hand I hate the unsportsmalike booing and abuse dished out by Ferrari fans. On the other I admire the fact they care enough to do it.
Ferrari runs in national colours and is passionate about its heritage and where it comes from. When Ferrari lose its still a national disgrace.

Even though most of the teams on the grid hail from Britain, do any Brits really have this kind of passion for 'our' teams? The modern incarnation of Lotus has little to do with the old team and goodness knows who owns it now. McLaren run German badged engines. Red Bull are from Milton Keynes but play the Austrian national anthem when they win... So why should we care?

[garcon]

Originally Posted by leonidas

I'm torn on this. On the one hand I hate the unsportsmalike booing and abuse dished out by Ferrari fans.

Although it probably was mostly tifosi on Sunday given the venue, I'd like to point out that elsewhere it isn't just Ferrari fans. In fact I suspect the majority of tifosi have great respect for Vettel and want to see him in a red car as soon as possible. I know I do. (Kimi will suffice for now though... ).

In fact I'd say booing a successful sportsman is the kind of thing British sports 'fans' are prone to do. If there's one thing the Brits hate in sport it's unbridled success.

Just to be absolutely clear, as far as I'm concerned anyone who boos Vettel is a ****ing idiot. Period.