Villeneuve's best days behind him????

[nameless]

18. 10 VILLENEUVE BAR Honda B 1'14"012 + 0'02"304 12

obviously!

[Jay]

Does Jacques have Jock back yet? That's the only reason I can see for his lack of performance this weekend..that and the BAR blowing chunks..Olivier didn't get it much further...

That said, I think Jacques could still win races if he had a decent car. Although he has been pushed by Olivier this year, he has also been consistently ahead of him. That said, Jacques clock is ticking...

[f1manoz]

Someone touched on this point earlier.

With the Reynard-Honda combination, perhaps BAR thought they could dominate F1 the way that combination has dominated CART since 1996. Sounds silly, but when you look at it comparitively, it makes sense.

But it's looked all year that BAR just haven't really given a damn about this years car after the half-way season, as if they'd already given up this year and were focused on next year. But considering they've got a great development driver in Panis, that decision (if it was taken) does not appear to have been the smartest idea.

Jordan have been looking better all season, but thanks to some awful reliability, BAR have still managed to be ahead in the WCC.

[Tristan]

My point about Shumacher wasn't that he has "made" Ferrari, I just meant to say he was clearly more careful and less naive than JV when he chose HIS risky team change. JV in his respective move was clearly wrong.

BTW: JV's quali performance was nothing short of an embarrasment. A complete joke.

[BBKing]

18 is a magical number. Look at Barrichello winning from 18 in Germany. Of course Villeneuve does not have a fully automatic Ferrari that probably my grandma could drive it to victory…. (LOL), but he is for sure much better than Barrichello (and my grandma…LOL). Just need a loony to cause all sorts of problems by crossing the road…LOL

[Tristan]

Didn't Rubens qualify 18th because of a wet-dry gamble that didn't pay off??

It was perfect conditons yesterday and JV suddenly seems incapable of setting up a grand prix car to even the most basic of levels. Something that, dare I say, my grandma could do!

[DanFlag]

Ever since the end of the first year with BAR, I dream about seeing the son of my all time idol Gilles Villeneuve do what his father might have like for him to do, drive the Ferrari car with all his heart, win his first F1 race in the big red machine.

I mean ok I can understand Jacques wanted to stick with BAR for a reason we might never know why because we are not him. But personnally I like to beleive it is because he his or was trying to prove he could beat Shumi in the "red cheval cabré machine".

Until this dream is totally impossible, let me dream of better days!

-----------------

Gilles and me in 1981
http://www.danflag.qc.ca/dany_gilles.jpg

He was signing this page:
http://www.danflag.qc.ca/dany_gilles1.jpg

If there are some fans, the weed-end schedule was also signed by:

TAG WILLIAMS
Alan jones
Carlos Reuteman

TYRREL
Eddie Cheever
Michele Alboreto

PARMALAT BRABHAM
Nelson Piquet
Hector Rebaque

MARLBORO MACLAREN
Andrea De Cesaris

JOHN PLAYER LOTUS
Elio De angelis
Nigel Mansell

ENSIGN
Eliseo Salazar

RENAULT ELF
Alain Prost

ALFA ROMEO
Mario Andretti
Bruno Giacomelli

TALBOT LIGIER
Patrick Tambay
Jacques Laffite

FERRARI
Jacques Villeneuve
Didier Pironi

ARROWS
Ricardo Patrese
Jacques Villeneuve

OSELLA
Giuseppe Gabiani

THEODORE
Marc Surer

CANDY TOLEMAN
Brian Henton
Derek Warwick

[Mania]

During qualifying yesterday Murray made another one of his special comments...Villeueve has struggled all weekend...However as you can see, he's already 1.3 seconds faster than Alex Yoong, but if he was'nt, he ought to be ashamed of himself".



Murray was right...Villeneuve did spare himself the embarassment of starting behind Yoong but he still managed to qualify Behind the other Minardi of Alonso.

That together with his coming together with Del-A-Rosa - just reinforced what Ive been saying all along.

Its time for Villeneuve to get out of BAR or retire.

[Run Free]

Originally posted by Tristan
Aha, but JV took a RISK when he went ot BAR. He saw POTENTIAL.

TGF ALSO took a risk going to Ferrari. At the time they were a mid-grid team, but he too saw potential.

How come TGF's risk came good and JV's didn't?? Is it because TGF really is better?? Or is it somehting else?? Can it be a finacial thing?? But then BAR are hardly short on cash. Is it Honda?? IS IT ZONTA?????

c'mon Tristan, how can you compare ferrari with BAR?
Ferrari were not a mid grid team as you wrote when TGF joined them, unless you consider "midfield" the third place on the WDC

Joining the third force of the championship together with some of the "big brains" of the Champion team isn't a risk, that's sure! And if you consider that ferrari was the most founded team of the grid, that there were political reasons for them returning and staying at the front, and, more, that ferrari is a legend and give to all of his drivers a tremendous popularity all over the world, you for sure can't say that TGF made a risky move!

[Run Free]

Originally posted by Mania
Its time for Villeneuve to get out of BAR or retire.

Well Mania, then explain why you don't write that it's time for Panis to retire! At least JV has beaten him in qualifying (10-6) and in races (12-5), and he's also 5 years older than JV.
At least JV got two podiums and a fourth in Monaco from that lemoncar, (and a wonderful from 15th to 6th in Monza) while a very good driver as Panis got only five points and a couple of horrible races.

BAR has been a total failure this year, that's for sure, but to say that it's time for JV to get out or retire because of this is an exageration. BTW, get out for what top team?

[Don K]

Originally posted by Run Free
Ferrari were not a mid grid team as you wrote when TGF joined them, unless you consider "midfield" the third place on the WDC

What do Damon Hill and Williams/Renault (third place in 1995 WDC) have to do with Ferrari?

I would surely think any driver who is moving from the first placed team (137 points) to the third placed team (73 points) is taking a risk.

[Roy2]

In the Speedvision qualifying coverage it was mentioned that JV was trying a new or modified chassis, supposedly stiffer.

If it were simply a matter of JV and his engineer being unable to find the right set-up, they would have adopted OP's rather than qualify a second slower. The modified chassis apparently performed worse rather than better.

Olivier Panis is driving superbly. He's a solid F1 practictioner and he's as close to JV as he is because he's that good, not because JV is that bad.

JV is no where near retirement. He won't quit on BAR and Honda and will be there when they get it right.

[Mania]

Originally posted by Run Free


Well Mania, then explain why you don't write that it's time for Panis to retire! At least JV has beaten him in qualifying (10-6) and in races (12-5), and he's also 5 years older than JV.
At least JV got two podiums and a fourth in Monaco from that lemoncar, (and a wonderful from 15th to 6th in Monza) while a very good driver as Panis got only five points and a couple of horrible races.

BAR has been a total failure this year, that's for sure, but to say that it's time for JV to get out or retire because of this is an exageration. BTW, get out for what top team?

Run Free,

Villeneuve has been with BAR for 3 years...this is Panis' first year in the team and I'd say 10-6 in qualifying is nothing for him to be ashamed of. Besides, Panis is a good steady driver but you and I both know he isent rated as World Championship material...at least not anymore. By the way, those podiums were damn lucky ones..and we heard that straight from the horse's mouth

By the way, the BAR has definately been a total failure this year but was'nt it also a total failure in 99 and 00 as well? We kept hearing "next season will be better" - (that almost sounded like DC) - but all they've done is stay where they are or go backwards.

So its my humble opinion that BAR will never go anywhere and Villeneue should spare himself the indignity that Damon Hill subjected himself too...and simply retire. If not, then he needs to get out of BAR fast.

Options...? Why not Renault? Button is history if Flav gets a sniff of interest from him...

Hell even a sabbatical would do nicely...

[Raoul Duke]

It really all comes down to what he wants. If he can't get a drive in a top team and is tired ot lingering about in the mid-field, then he should leave F1 and go back to Cart. But personally I think that JV is a figher. He prooved to me what a figher he was in 1997 when TGF was running away with the WC and it was looking increasingly unlikely that JV would win it(hell, even I gave up hope at one point), but he came back and won it after all. It says a lot about the mans character, he's tough. But then again, maybe his ship has sailed, who knows?.

[DanFlag]

I was watching an interview two nights ago, and even Jacques Villeneuve (the brother of Gilles: http://www.villeneuve.com/jacques/)
was saying his nefew lost the flame, that he does not seem to put heart into anymore.

That's sad, he added if Gilles would have been hit like Jacques was at Indianapolis, he would have continued the race, just to better test the car in prevision of the next race, just to practice getting the fastest laps under hard conditions. He also added It's sad to think Jacques must be thinking "there is only two races left and this car is a piece of junk and I will not spend time trying to fix this car but will wait for the next one", I myself like my brother Gilles would have not done this but like I'm telling you, would have continued pushing the car to gather data.

Now that's the spirit of a fighter!

[The Moon Monkey]

Run Free - if you look at results - then Jacques has performed much worse than Damon Hill post world championships..

Damon won a race (spa 98) and came 2nd (hunagry 97) within 2 years of leaving Williams.

JV has finished 3rd a couple of times for Williams in 98 and 2 third places for BAR in 2001. JV scored no points at all in 1999. Damon performed much better for Arrows!!!

Yes - Damon's last season was not great but there were still good races at San Marino, Silverstone and Spa (hardly an easy circuit)...

Has Jacques really shone at all since leaving Williams???

I think not!

[Roy2]

Jacques recognized from the beginning that his uncle was not a man to be listened to or followed. He's a fighter like all the Villenueves but he missed the big time and has nothing sensible to say about his nephew.

You'll never see JV disgrace himself the way Damon Hill did in his last season so you can spare yourself any concern over his dignity.

Sorry to have to tell you folks this but he's not going to retire, sabbatical, quit, or any other of those good things you wish for him anytime soon.

[DanFlag]

Hey dont get me wrong Roy2,

I'm far from wanting Jv step down F1, in fact, I would so much want him to succeed again, it makes me sad for him he's got to suffer all sorts of critics for his performance and behavior.

[Run Free]

Originally posted by The Moon Monkey
Run Free - if you look at results - then Jacques has performed much worse than Damon Hill post world championships..

Damon won a race (spa 98) and came 2nd (hunagry 97) within 2 years of leaving Williams.

JV has finished 3rd a couple of times for Williams in 98 and 2 third places for BAR in 2001. JV scored no points at all in 1999. Damon performed much better for Arrows!!!

Yes - Damon's last season was not great but there were still good races at San Marino, Silverstone and Spa (hardly an easy circuit)...

Has Jacques really shone at all since leaving Williams???

I think not!

I think yes!
The only results you can take on serious account are those of two team mates. You can't compare what the last World Champions have made one or two or three years after their title, because one has had a ferrari, another a McLaren, another one a declining Williams and then a new BAR, another an Arrows and a Jordan.
It all depends on what car (and luck)you have. Damon was lucky to have those wonderful Bridgestone tyres in 1997, Jacques had a car that broke in pieces every race in 1999, often when he was in the points. He should have reached more than a podium if not for some silly pitstops...
Don't forget, for example, that two years ago in Spain he stayed ahead of TGF until the pitstop...Or his wonderful drive in Monaco this year in the crappest BAR ever, a so pig car that a very good driver like Panis has got only 5 points with it!
I will continue to think he's the best (put TGF or MH or JPM or any other so called top driver in the same **** cars and then see!)and to support him whatever **** will be written or said about him: here we say "tanti nemici, tanto onore"!!

[Run Free]

Originally posted by Roy2

Olivier Panis is driving superbly. He's a solid F1 practictioner and he's as close to JV as he is because he's that good, not because JV is that bad.

I'm absolutely with you on this one, Roy!
Everytime Jacques has a new team mate is always the same story: before the season beginning all are saying "Oh what a fast great driver is XY, he will surely trash JV". Then, after JV has beaten him, all are saying "Oh what a kind of bad driver is XY"!
It happened with HHF, then with RZ, then with OP too.
It's really funny and really, really stupid!

[The Moon Monkey]

Run Free - I guess the point I am making is that people generally slagged off Damon Hill saying that he was forced into teams out of having no real choice, however, on reflection, he scored some good results - especially in comparison to Villeneuve who chose BAR rather than stay on at Williams for 1999 and beyond...

The real point is - why has Villeneuve plodded on in the midfield during his prime??? Money?

This is a good question...

You could never see Michael Schumacher driving in midfield for 4 seasons after all...