NEW BELGIUM 'HGV TRANSIT TOLL'

[Colin McKay]

Here's a pdf from the Belgians explaining the new system. FWIW my reading is that a 3.5 tonne GVW van is exempt but becomes liable as soon as you hang a trailer on the back - they give an example of an HGV which moves into the higher rate band when a trailer is added so I would guess the same rule applies to vehicles which would otherwise be exempt. The transition to >3.5 tonnes changes the rules in every other aspect eg O licensing, tachos, so it seems likely that this is the intention here even if it's not explained very clearly.

I note that you are required to have an OBU fitted even if you never use a road where the toll applies, so your Big Belgian Brother will be able to record every movement 24/7 in Belgium (and presumably everywhere else as well if you forget to disconnect it when you leave).

[Tel 911S]

Originally Posted by Colin McKay

Here's a pdf from the Belgians explaining the new system. FWIW my reading is that a 3.5 tonne GVW van is exempt but becomes liable as soon as you hang a trailer on the back - they give an example of an HGV which moves into the higher rate band when a trailer is added so I would guess the same rule applies to vehicles which would otherwise be exempt. The transition to >3.5 tonnes changes the rules in every other aspect eg O licensing, tachos, so it seems likely that this is the intention here even if it's not explained very clearly.

I note that you are required to have an OBU fitted even if you never use a road where the toll applies, so your Big Belgian Brother will be able to record every movement 24/7 in Belgium (and presumably everywhere else as well if you forget to disconnect it when you leave).

It does seem to say that the toll applies for combined vehicles if the GVW is over 3.5 tonnes . So my reading would be that it means that if the towing vehicle , not train weight , is under 3.5 then the toll is not required

[GORDON STREETER]

Originally Posted by zefarelly

There used to be (when I worked for whats left of it) a 'Bedford gathering' every summer . . . There was one guy with a lovely TK tractor unit, restored with modern engine and transmission, pulling a flat bed trailer . . . . which from the outside was loaded high and covered in old green tarpaulins . . . once on the campsite, they pulled them off . .underneath was a luxury motorhome in a kind of container with windows, doors the lot . . . apparently the whole rig was capable of cruising at 75.

I often see on the (out of the way) beaches in Spain old 7.5 ton lorries with an old caravan minus wheels and hubs fitted on the back complete with a ladder !
This seems to be the norm for new age travellers to get a cheap motorhome !

[Colin McKay]

Originally Posted by Tel 911S

It does seem to say that the toll applies for combined vehicles if the GVW is over 3.5 tonnes . So my reading would be that it means that if the towing vehicle , not train weight , is under 3.5 then the toll is not required

The guide does refer to motor vehicle less than 3.5 tonnes but I suspect that this is a term that has suffered in the translation. I think the authorities are likely to view the combination as a single vehicle, they are unlikely to treat them separately IMO. The 3.5 tonne break features in almost every piece of transport legislation drafted and the intention was always to draw a distinction between genuine light commercials and something used for a more serious purpose, hence the need to fit tachos and have an O Licence once you exceed this weight (with limited exemptions for very low capacity trailers).

Perhaps someone on here with a better legal background could comment, but in my practical experience I am sure that the intention is to draw the line at that weight. I would love to be corrected!

Another minor point which is typical of the sort of muddle that comes from interfering with European rules is that in most of Belgium the toll is a tax whereas in Wallonia it is a fee, and therefore subject to VAT at 21%. When they can't even implement the same rule across a single country what chance do we ever have of European harmonisation? Same difficulty as Scottish vs English speed limits, it's all so fragmented.

It's about time the racing season started, I'm getting too despondent!

[Mike Bell]

Originally Posted by Colin McKay

Another minor point which is typical of the sort of muddle that comes from interfering with European rules is that in most of Belgium the toll is a tax whereas in Wallonia it is a fee, and therefore subject to VAT at 21%. When they can't even implement the same rule across a single country what chance do we ever have of European harmonisation? Same difficulty as Scottish vs English speed limits, it's all so fragmented.

It's about time the racing season started, I'm getting too despondent!

I noticed that in your pdf, hadn't seen the regions map before! Wallonia is the last region going to Spa, so guess from the racing point of view the VAT will be small- not that I can reclaim from euro trips anyway....

So far all painless with registering etc, they even pointed out I had quoted the wrong (higher) GVW and it could lead to being overcharged, so please could I change it!

The old system worked for me, but will be interesting after first trip to see if toll is more or less than when calculated on time.....

[midgetman]

I'm supposed to be towing a friend's race car to Zandvoort. Mrs MM doesn't want a long crossing on the boat to Hook of Holland, but I reckon she'll have to now.

Yes you're right, it's the total train weight that matters not the GVW of the van:

"If the vehicle has a GVW train then the rate category will be determined by that GVW train.
(e.g. truck with GVW motor vehicle 30 tonnes and GVW tow 44 tonnes-> rate category > 32tonnes)."

So my van has a GVW of 3.5t but GTW of 5 tonnes or something like that. But reading the paragraph again, it's the Theoretical train weight, I don't have to have a trailer on the back. Plus I notice it's an offence even to be driving in Belgium without one of those boxes, even if you don't use the toll roads. Hmm, think Chris will be towing his own vehicle up to Zandvoort.

[MGDavid]

thought we'd established earlier that it doesn't apply to motorhomes - which your vehicle is. JFDI.

[Tim Falce]

Max, it applies to the GVW of the towing vehicle not It's GTW

With regard to combined vehicles the toll only applies if the GVW of the motor vehicle exceeds 3,5

[midgetman]

Ah thank you. I have been getting a little confused....

David JFDI??

[Mike Bell]

Hoping the auto sensor works- Just ****ing Do It !

[p261brm]

Originally Posted by Mike Bell

Hoping the auto sensor works- Just ****ing Do It !

Yes Mike that used to be the way of things, having read the advice so far, it is beginning to look like Goodwood, Silverstone, Oulton et al and O.U.T
had nowt but bother wi em sin 1066

[Moosehead]

How big is the OBU? How much to post back to them once you've used it or is that included, or can you just hand it back to the chappie manning the border on the way out

A little bit more serious - I've got a feeling my camper (Yank) is registered as a PHGV, I assume the Belgies won't know that or will they be running an ANPR that can 'interogate' UK systems?

[Mike Bell]

Originally Posted by Moosehead

How big is the OBU? How much to post back to them once you've used it or is that included, or can you just hand it back to the chappie manning the border on the way out

A little bit more serious - I've got a feeling my camper (Yank) is registered as a PHGV, I assume the Belgies won't know that or will they be running an ANPR that can 'interogate' UK systems?

Taking your first q seriously, if you go back to Colin's post on previous page that includes a pdf, on it is a pic of an OBU. About the size of a satnav. And if you read up, you will be able to stop somewhere as you enter Belgium, pay the deposit and receive an OBU. On the way back, you can hand it in and get the deposit back. You would have to load it with payment though, but should get a refund on unused credit.....

For enforcement they will be using fixed Gantries on major routes as well as mobile checks, but the technology COULD be sensing if a device is fitted / working, not looking at reg no.....

[PeterMorley]

Signs advertising the introduction of the charge have appeared on the motorways in Belgium.
The website they point you to is http://www.viapass.be/en/
The instructions there seem a bit clearer than the previous PDF, for instance it says GVW is the truck, GCVW is the truck & trailer.
It does say that cars, buses and campers are exempted and that it only applies to goods vehicles.
Given this only applies to goods vehicles it seems that someone taking their own cars to a race meeting would be exempt (but does that happen these days!), someone taking cars for a customer might be another issue but the car's aren't goods (assuming they're not being sold) so the driver is only providing a service and might also qualify for an exemption - might be worth contacting ViaPass to ask?.

As for enforcement, the use of ANPR is far lower than the UK (but there are new cameras on the motorways presumably for this purpose - hopefully, I was worried they were speed cameras!) and given the UK doesn't share information you'd be unlikely to receive a fine in the post but any real/physical contact with the authorities would result in a spot fine (if applicable).

The OBU is apparently to the new Euro format which will be adopted by other countries over time - so one box will eventually suit all systems.

[Mike Bell]

Originally Posted by PeterMorley

The OBU is apparently to the new Euro format which will be adopted by other countries over time - so one box will eventually suit all systems.

And here it is. Chunky little devil, ain't it?

[PeterMorley]

Originally Posted by Mike Bell

And here it is. Chunky little devil, ain't it?

I don't think they need high tech radio devices to work out if you've got one of those fitted it will be visible to the naked eye!

[Mike Harte]

And how many devices can you plug into a cigarette lighter thingy at one time? Unless, of course, you have your GPS, etc. all plumbed in, which I think may be unlikely.

[Mike Bell]

Originally Posted by PeterMorley

I don't think they need high tech radio devices to work out if you've got one of those fitted it will be visible to the naked eye!

The instructions warn against fitting it so vision is obstructed!

Most full size truck cabs will likely have 2 power sockets nowadays, a 12v and 24v. Not certain but guess satnavs etc will run off either, well mine does, so shouldn't be a problem. Fortunately don't spend that long at any one time in Belgium to have to worry about keeping phone charged! And the OBU can be hard wired as an alternative if necessary....

[Mike Bell]

Well, the OBU works! And am pleased to say that it deemed the A11 to be toll free, so short drive didn't cost me a penny this morning.....

[wolfhound]

Originally Posted by Mike Bell

The instructions warn against fitting it so vision is obstructed!

Hopefully it will not be needed in a 2CV van!

[Mike Bell]

Well, who would have guessed it- protesting truckers in Belgium!

http://automotivelogistics.media/new...-hgv-road-toll

Hopefully things will have settled before mid May when the Spring Classic takes place at Spa.....

[delta]

Ive got my box Mike. Better try and fit it at the weekend as I am off to Hockenheim Tuesday.. Stand by for a phone call.

[Mike Bell]

Originally Posted by delta

Ive got my box Mike. Better try and fit it at the weekend as I am off to Hockenheim Tuesday.. Stand by for a phone call.

Err, it suckers to the screen, plugs into a power socket then does its own thing. Certainly nothing a man of your kaliber cant handle.....

[delta]

Yes but if you recall I'm the man that put the Austria Go Box in the wrong place on the windscreen of Delta truck .