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5 Feb 2016, 20:17 (Ref:3612103) | #26 | |||
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I agree with this. I think the P1-L is there just in case the factories leave suddenly. I think if the new Toyota is as slow as last year they could leave at the end of the year. We have a smaller P1 grid at LM this year because dieselgate, it could be anything to make factories to leave, and there is where the P1-L are needed. |
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5 Feb 2016, 21:36 (Ref:3612148) | #27 | |
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Toyota's committed to 2017 at least. The wec is the only place they can run a hybrid racecar. That's the enticement of lmp1-h. The price of admission is too high because of a couple teams. That could change with new, more open rules in the next couple years.
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7 Feb 2016, 15:59 (Ref:3612796) | #28 | ||
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With 44 cars entered for the ELMS this year, the ACO is not about to change anything.
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7 Feb 2016, 17:55 (Ref:3612809) | #29 | ||
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Which is really unfortunate because as it stands the series is not very attractive to fans. When the new P2s come on board it will probably be completely unwatchable. But then again, the fans are not the customers of the ELMS so what does that matter.
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7 Feb 2016, 17:59 (Ref:3612810) | #30 | ||
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Why is a 44 car grid not attractive to fans? The ELMS can great racing last year and the bigger grid this year should just add to the fun |
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7 Feb 2016, 18:10 (Ref:3612815) | #31 | |
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I would think with spec LMP2 coming. LMP1-H could be more viable but then again this category will face competition for entries from IMSA DPI.
Also IMSA LMPC sucks egg. Get rid of it. All you need is DPI, GTLM, and GTD in 2017 |
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7 Feb 2016, 20:57 (Ref:3612847) | #32 | |
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DPi wont be hybrid and will basically be prototype gt3 in that it's not a development driven advantage, but a bop series that's semi-spec. Unless they drop continental tire and let teams compete with their own design freedom, there's not much difference except looks and sound.
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8 Feb 2016, 15:17 (Ref:3613093) | #33 | ||
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Anyway, Yves Courage is already announcing his future P1 project (maybe with a Russian-French alliance?): http://www.dailysportscar.com/2016/0...he-making.html Might he be trying to steal BMW's hydrogen thunder? |
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8 Feb 2016, 18:33 (Ref:3613148) | #34 | ||
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Basically we came up with a GT3/GTE car (SCG 003C) that pushed the envelope, is very fast, can be BOP'd fairly and the fans seem to enjoy seeing racing. The problem remains that as we'll never sell the required 250 cars unless a manufacture takes us over/joint ventures with us, we are not allowed to race at Daytona, Sebring, 24 of Spa, Le Mans, or Bathurst. We really don't see why they won't let us race " a la Delta Wing" but they won't and that's why so far we've only raced the N24/VLN and this year the 12H of Mugello We are not an approved constructor for P2 so the only class we could race in at Le Mans in a car we designed, engineered and built is LMP1. The reality of that is daunting. We have sourced a great LMP 1 engine, not our current 003C one, and do feel we could build a very interesting and completive car but the money required for development and two years of racing The WEC and Le Mans with a three car team is about 40mm euro more that we've raised so far. We have room for two customers who'd like to join us on a once in a lifetime adventure and additional sponsors who we feel we could get huge world wide exposure but while hopeful understand the odds. We will race the 12H of Mugello , VLN 1, 6H 24 qualifying race and the N 24 with Two SCG 003 C's. For the sport of it VLN 1, 6H qualifying, and The N24 with our hybrid FIA Alternative Cup Champion P 4/5 C and see what miracles do or don't happen to enable the future. This summer we'll have our road version SCG 003S available for sale and Magazine testing and which we think at 1180 KG, 800HP, 850 NM's of torque, 900KG of NET downforce and shod with our Road legal Dunlop tires will turn a very nice NS time. Should you or anyone you know be interested in any of the above let us know. Should any of you be at a race where we are please say hello. Best Jim |
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8 Feb 2016, 19:27 (Ref:3613159) | #35 | ||
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Great post Jim, good luck with what you're doing. Looking forward to seeing you out at the N24 again.
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8 Feb 2016, 22:33 (Ref:3613212) | #36 | |
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Building your own car, race it at the most daunting track in the world and drive home (or some fancy gala) afterwards! It doesn't get more Le Mans than that you would think?
Keep up the great stuff Jim and we hope to see you racing States side one day too! How about a 'national GT3 homologation' (like Ginetta, Radical, Vertigo and others)? Edit: Mike Hedlund, are you listening? |
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8 Feb 2016, 22:54 (Ref:3613220) | #37 | |
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Interesting that the wec expect 2 or more teams to join p1-L. Courage? Who else?
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9 Feb 2016, 01:36 (Ref:3613253) | #38 | |
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For 2016 afaik Rebellion and Kolles. In 2018 a totally new chassis will be required so that's when it will get expensive. P1 requires continuous development which is very expensive. We still believe that a non hybrid LMP1 could be engineered to be very fast and even challenge for the lead. That remains our dream but that dream needs a huge amount of money which for us means additional customers and sponsors. Our SCG road version will be SVA/TUF Europe legal and legal in Asia and the Middle East and even possibly in the US if someone want's to build one for themselves under US Homebuilt laws but the issue is that even with 10 road car sales a year for several years we can't possibly build enough at a price low enough to Homologate under ACO/IMSA/Blancpain rules and it would take over 150mm euros to build up a company that could produce say 200 a year for five years at a price that makes sense and would return an acceptable profit. We will push on through the Fog...
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9 Feb 2016, 02:42 (Ref:3613267) | #39 | ||
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9 Feb 2016, 05:23 (Ref:3613292) | #40 | |
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The rules have been constant for 3 seasons now and possibly one more next year. A big change may be harmful, but it seems the new regs won't stray very far from what we have. If you're going to lmp1, you know what it takes to compete. The thing I think would help is slightly more freedom for private teams. A lower weight, drop the fuel flow, more engine freedom etc.
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9 Feb 2016, 09:16 (Ref:3613320) | #41 | ||
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I, as do many of the fans, LOVE the SCG 003 and the P4/5, but the organizers are wanting big manufacturers. To many of us, 1 SCG 003 is more valuable than 3 Nissan LMPs, but that isn't what the headlines will pull in. But I do agree, I don't see why your car cannot be entered into IMSA and Le Mans given the DeltaWing makes it in. Bathurst surprises me given they have the Marc Fords/Mazdas racing in it. Can the SCG 003 not be run nationally, like the Ginettas? Unfortunately many of us won't be able to buy one of the 250 road cars you need. But if buying the diecasts helps then at least you guys have Spark making them now (BBR was too expensive). I'm sure many of us here have the P4/5 diecasts and will be adding an SCG003 to the collection. Every little helps right? |
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9 Feb 2016, 12:42 (Ref:3613354) | #42 | |
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Awesome insight there Napolis
Curious you mention "--- we still believe non hybrid LMP1 car could be engineered ---" when the reports have spoken more on you actually considering hybrid for the proposed LMP1? Anyhow, so do you think, if the ELMS allowed (privateer) LMP1s again, that you would be able to pull of theoretical budget estimate for that (+ Le Mans) and still have the same ROI as with WEC? Battle for overall wins in regional series and do oneoff fight against the factories at Sarthe. Maybe create customer market. Though I don't think anything's gonna change in that front - ELMS reallowing anything else than LMP2 as lead class again that is - unless teams start making queries to ACO about it. Because everything is second tier, third tier, full on pro-am, spec, bop, cost cap, freezed. The big feature attractions are missing. Last edited by Deleted; 9 Feb 2016 at 12:51. |
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9 Feb 2016, 14:30 (Ref:3613372) | #43 | ||
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Maybe Manor is one of those teams that have said to ACO "I don't know maybe" when they asked, and instead of half-imaginary/half-possible they interpreted it as "booked".
http://www.crash.net/le-mans/news/22...qeC8QFA9f51.99 Quote:
However, Courage says they have something ambitious planned for 2018. Granted which could be anything, but it's not like there are many categories to choose from, especially with LMP2 cashing in with greed http://www.dailysportscar.com/2016/0...he-making.html |
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9 Feb 2016, 15:48 (Ref:3613403) | #44 | |
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The question by the ACO was probably disguised as "Would you like to win the lottery?" which led to a firm "Yes!" by all...
Here's the full (?) list of 'potential future P1 entrants': factory BMW Privateers BR Courage Glickenhaus Greaves? Manor Onroak (OAK) SARD? Strakka and FF's 'mystery and possible future employer'. Feel free to correct/add. |
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9 Feb 2016, 15:58 (Ref:3613405) | #45 | |
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factory
BMW Subaru Lamborghini* Privateers BR Courage Glickenhaus Greaves? Manor Onroak (OAK) SARD? Strakka Signatech-Fake-Alpine** * pre-VW-scandal talks ** but they'll probably continue getting rebadging deals in spec-LMP2 too so "why bother" But remember, Last November: http://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/b...mp1-privateer/ Beaumesnil said a target of 8-10 LMP1 Privateer cars on the grid by 2017-18 is a realistic target, given the current amount of interest. |
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9 Feb 2016, 16:11 (Ref:3613408) | #46 | ||
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Factory
BMW Subaru Lamborghini* Privateers BR Courage Glickenhaus Greaves? Manor Onroak (OAK) SARD? Strakka Signatech-Fake-Alpine** Welter Racing???? http://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/w...-car-for-2014/ http://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/w...loping-engine/ http://www.dailysportscar.com/2015/0...nd-beyond.html |
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9 Feb 2016, 16:45 (Ref:3613418) | #47 | ||
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It does. Well posted. Thanks! |
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9 Feb 2016, 16:56 (Ref:3613423) | #48 | ||
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9 Feb 2016, 19:16 (Ref:3613463) | #49 | ||
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9 Feb 2016, 21:41 (Ref:3613490) | #50 | |||
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-mike |
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