Ralf - those were the best days of his life (Merged)

[I Ate Yoko Ono]

White Lines by Grandmaster Flash could be Ralf's new theme song! Didn't it go something like

"It's like a jungle sometimes it makes me wonder how I keep from going under, ahuh huh huh huh huh huh....", "don't push me cos I'm close to the edge, I'm trying not to lose my head..."

except in Ralf's case it would be more like

"Juan is like a nightmare sometimes it makes me wonder how i'll keep my job at Williams, aboo boo a boo hoo hoo hoo," "don't push me cos I'll make a mistaaaaake, I'm trying not to use more reeeeeeeeeeevs,"


On a par with my Gravel Trap poetry I'm sure you will agree but you get the point.
Ralf raced in Formula Nippon and would have been at Suzuka 6-7 times per year so he really should have hammered JPM were it not for running out of talent at the critical moment. Even Eddie Irvine, a Suzuka specialist from past racing in Japan, managed to outqualify PDLR for a change!

Bring JV back to Williams!

[Don K]

Originally posted by BBKing
Formula Juan has outperformed little bro in the second half of the season in spite of what don K. and RG can say about the points situation. Having attained some kind of reliability in Williams Formula Juan is way ahead of little bro and that is a painful FACT.

Unfortunately, Juan has not been able to show that on track.

In case you are talking about the taller of the Schumacher brothers:
During the second half of the season, Ralf enlarged his advantage over Juan by 2 or 5 points (depending on wether or not you include the Nurburgring).

And in case you are talking about the smaller one:
During the second half of the season, Michael enlarged his advantage over Juan by 40 or 36 points (depending on wether or not you include the Nurburgring).

[BBKing]

Originally posted by Don K
[B]Unfortunately, Juan has not been able to show that on track.

In case you are talking about the taller of the Schumacher brothers:
During the second half of the season, Ralf enlarged his advantage over Juan by 2 or 5 points (depending on wether or not you include the Nurburgring).

You are a dangerous man once you get your hands into that calculator of yours….LOL

One of the things tha little bro enlarged was his face. Look at him at Monza's podium...LOL

[Bononi]

Now guys, now guys, listen !!!

For the Ralf's supporters:

• Ralf has lost something, focus maybe, since Spa.
• Maybe he realised that JPM is what he thought to be over hype
• Maybe he realised that Williams is not a #1/#2 team
• Maybe all this new situation in his private life disturbed him so much

All this above you must agree that could happened, huhn ?

For the JPM's supporters:

• JPM has only got into bussiness after his Canada's incident
• In all the season, by numbers, he was beaten up by Ralf
• He was over hyped and this certainly troubled him at the beginning

All this above you must agree that happened.

So, the battle just begun, for now, it's 3 X 1 to Ralf. But we're only 17 minutes in the game...

[Inigo Montoya]

I agree with Bon,
Ralf lost something since Spa. I'm sure he'll get it back in time for next season. He's probably (like me) a bit rattled that JPM turned out to be so darn good - but I wouldn't be asking for his head just yet.
But certain members (myself included) sometimes overreact. Jeez, there were people here saying that Michael was finished, going to retire, etc. after his performances at Monza and Spa. What are those people saying about Michael now?? Nothing.

At least I admitted I was wrong about writing JPM off as an hot-headed ex-Cart guy.

[Ralf's Girl]

Originally posted by BBKing
Little bro must know Suzuka more than his living room. He has raced there 5 years in F1 and many races in F3. Yet he could not hold Barrichello behind.

So where was Eddie Irvine today then? Japanese F3000, eight previous races at Suzuka...absolutely nowhere. Racing at Suzuka doesn't mean that you are automatically going to blitz the opposition there.

Originally posted by BBKing
Villeneuve should be the one moving to Williams.

*snort* So you think Montoya should partner the guy who nearly thumped him in Canada?

[I Ate Yoko Ono]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Ralf's Girl
[B]

So where was Eddie Irvine today then? Japanese F3000, eight previous races at Suzuka...absolutely nowhere. Racing at Suzuka doesn't mean that you are automatically going to blitz the opposition there.



No RG but as I clearly pointed out earlier he was faster than PDLR for the first time in several races. Definitely makes a big difference, not to mention racing 5 times previously at the track in F1. Nobody here is putting Ralf down per se it's just that Montoya is clearly significantly more talented and promising at the same stage in his F1 career.

[BMW_Power]

Those people who are writing Ralf of have no idea what they`re talking about!Ralf has 3 grand prix wins this season compared to Montoya's 1.And if you want to start *****in about lucky wins then most of David Coulthard and all three of Johnny Herbert's wins should not count either.

What some of you are clearly demonstrating is a bias against Ralf.I do not understand why some of you feel the need to bash him in order to praise Juan Pablo Montoya?I mean,grow up will you?Is it a crime to praise two drivers at the same time or is that just not done on Ten-tenths anymore?I find it ridiculous.

Ralf has had a good season and has not embarassed himself or his team in any manner.Sure,he may not have had a great end to his season but then again neither have the likes of Hakkinen,Coulthard,and even Montoya himself at various stages this season.Everyone has had ups and downs.Ralf has won the 2nd highest number of races this season second only to Michael who dominated 2001.He is clearly best of the rest.No one with the exception of MS has been consistent throughout this season yet I dont see any of you bashing the other guys but ofcourse Ralf has to be subjected to cheap shots by the lot of you.

Once again,grow up.Appreciate more than one pilot.They're all human and they can make mistakes.

Ralf has not had the best of ends to the season,given his high standards however he has had a lot to think about,especially on the personal front.

Please be more objective and do not bash someone just because you're jealous of him and want to see him fail.

Wait and see how Ralf performs next year before declaring a person who at the end of the season has just won 1 race to be the all-singing,all-dancing champion of the future.

[Damon]

While JPM only has 1 win, if it were not for mechanical failure he would have had at least another 3. That would have put him close to DC for second in the WDC. The differance between JPM and Ralf is that Montoya has performed consistantly well throughout the season while Ralf has nose dived in the 2nd half of the season.

Also why should we wait to see what Ralf does next year? He's been in F1 for 5 years for God's sake!! How many practice seasons do you want!?!

Whatch JPM next year take the title fight to TGF.

[Aysedasi]

I'm not exactly an old hand at this forum business myself but I see you are a new recruit to these hallowed portals, BMW_Power. I think you've fallen into the trap of biting on the bait that others have left for you. The "he's good, he's not" bait. We all have our views and there's nothing wrong with yours, you just have to accept that not everyone will agree with you on this or indeed any other topic. They may agree with your next one, and not the one after that. And so on and so on!

[Raoul Duke]

Well said BMW Power, I really think that people should show Ralf more respect. He's driven well this year and even if he's maybe been a little lack-luster since Monza maybe, he will be back on top form next season no doubt.

[BootsOntheSide]

I think you've forgot that PDLR drive in Formula Nippon as well, so has more Suzukua experience than most of the drivers though not as much as Swerve. I always felt Ralf was over-rated when compared to Fisi, Button and Montoya, all drivers who got to F1 on talent rather than name. He only looked good at the startr of the season because the Williams car was much faster than last year, and Montoya has spasmodic problems with grasping F1. Its an eternal problem, working out whether improved for is down to car or driver. Remember Ivan Capelli who everyone thought was great after 1988, when in fact Adrian Newey's awesome car was being held back by Capelli's relative lack of skill. Ralf isn't bad but was blown away in the second half of 2000 by Button, and in the second half of 2001 by Montoya.

[Sonatrap]

I think if you review the posts on this forum across the whole season you´ll see that the tide turned against Ralph after he started coming out with a series of comments which did nothing to 'endear' him with F1 followers...the classic one being of course his quip about saving his engine
Unfortunately the more he talked it up this season the more his performance has tailed off.
And it´s rubbish that JPM has had a consistent season - he hit a big low when he came off at Monaco and Canada....and many on this forum wrote him off completely and relished in it.

[Don K]

Originally posted by Damon The differance between JPM and Ralf is that Montoya has performed consistantly well throughout the season while Ralf has nose dived in the 2nd half of the season.[/B]

I think you've got your facts wrong.
Ralf has performed consistantly well throughout the season, with a slight dip towards Montoya's level at the end.
Montoya has steadily improved, up to Ralf's level towards the end of the season.

[Damon]

I have been one of the few fighting for JPM throughout. He made two mistakes all year and other than those his other performances have been nothing short of breath taking. He has brought a wave of fresh air which F1 desperatly needed and in his first season has out performed (if not out scored due to a run of bad luck) Ralf in big way.

[Don K]

Originally posted by BootsOntheSide
Ralf isn't bad but was blown away in the second half of 2000 by Button, and in the second half of 2001 by Montoya.

Last 8/9 races of the 2000 season:
Ralf 12 points, Button 9 points.

Last 8/9 races of the 2001 season:
Ralf 24/27 points, Montoya 19/25 points.

[Sonatrap]

Ralf isn't bad but was blown away in the second half of 2000 by Button, and in the second half of 2001 by Montoya

It would be foolish to totaly discredit Ralph but it does seem like the season is a little to long for him...a bit like Coulthard who also specializes in tailing off.
Ralph got rattled by Monoya this rear, no doubt about it. He´ll probably benefit from the break and come back strong next March only to tail off again two thirds of the way through the season when he realises that Montoya is only just beginning to explore his potential .

[EERO]

Well summarized, Bononi.

Next year will be very interesting at Williams

[Ralf's Girl]

Originally posted by BootsOntheSide
I always felt Ralf was over-rated when compared to Fisi, Button and Montoya, all drivers who got to F1 on talent rather than name.

Did Button leave his talent at Williams when he left, then? Ralf did not get into F1 due to his name - if he has no talent then why is he still, after five years, the record-holder for the youngest-ever driver to stand on an F1 podium? Surely that record should have been taken by that "real" talent Button? (and by the way, if he was called Harry Smith nobody would harp on about him the way they do)

[Ralf's Girl]

Originally posted by BMW_Power
What some of you are clearly demonstrating is a bias against Ralf.I do not understand why some of you feel the need to bash him in order to praise Juan Pablo Montoya?

I've been down this road before - nobody listens.

Originally posted by Damon
While JPM only has 1 win, if it were not for mechanical failure he would have had at least another 3.

Well, if we're iffing and butting about it...

Ralf could have won a few races this year:
Malaysia - run into on lap 1, excellent recovery to finish in the points
Brazil - again, hit on lap 1
Nurburgring - stop and go penalty
France - dodgy tyres

So there's 4 on top of his other 3...

[Sonatrap]

- if he could keep up his consistency throughout the season, as he did in 99, he would still have been in contention to win races by the end of this year. If he can do that next year he won't be in the same situation as he has been over the past three or four races

here's to iffing and butting!

I think the races which qualify as being probable victories which were 'robbed' are the ones where the driver was in the lead before their luck turned e.g. Hakkinen in Spain

And of course Montoya in Brazil where he had a historic victory snatched away from him.

That little list of Ralph's 'near misses is a joke istn't it?

[BMW_Power]

Originally posted by Aysedasi
I'm not exactly an old hand at this forum business myself but I see you are a new recruit to these hallowed portals, BMW_Power. I think you've fallen into the trap of biting on the bait that others have left for you. The "he's good, he's not" bait. We all have our views and there's nothing wrong with yours, you just have to accept that not everyone will agree with you on this or indeed any other topic. They may agree with your next one, and not the one after that. And so on and so on!

I dont have a problem with that!But I've been lurking around here for ages and everyone seems to jump on him for everything while others get away with murder!There is a lot of anger and jealousy,whatever you wanna call it,directed at Ralf which is unfair and uncalled for.Either people are just pure and simple afraid of what he really can do in a race car,pr they do not like his family name,or for that matter they're just insecure about their own blue eyed boys.None of those reasons,however warrant all of these cheap shots at Ralf.

Oh and by the way,iffs and butts put together-Montoya should not have won in Monza.Barrichelo had that race won till the fuel rig cost him his lead.Similarly,at Indy he pulled of a overtaking move while he was on LOW FUEL compared to Schumacher who was heavy on a one-stopper.You wanna be kids??Fine!

[BootsOntheSide]

Out of the four races you list, only Malasyia really stands as a possibel victory, on account fo the offs Ferrari had, but Ralf was only more likely to win it than Montoya, who had a problem on the grid, because of the rain, which is why Ralf could have had a chance anyway. Montoya outqualfiied Ralf at Suzuka, a driver's circuit which he had never seen before. He beat Ralf on the grid at Spa as well, went to the back twice through no fault of his own, and overtook Ralf in the race before blowing up. Monza was Montoya's day, Ralf was nowhere.

[Liz]

It was reported on TSN this morning that Sir Frank and Patrick Head gave Ralf a very stern talking to at the USGP for "not showing up" and for his general lack of both grip and a clue. I would have loved to have heard that one.

Obviously Ralf did not listen, as he looked like Tarso Marques today.

P.S. I knew TGF could not bring himself to help his teammate at the end of the day - it's just not in him - but hurrah for Mika who quietly gave DC a very nice parting gift (and avoided the post-race press conference to boot.)

Prediction for next year: Ron Dennis is going to be very sorry he hired Kimi, unless those remote-control cars come out double-quick and they hire Mika to sit in the pitlane and steer Kimi's car for him.

[Ralf's Girl]

Originally posted by Damon
He made two mistakes all year

If you can count, you'll know that he has had three self-inflicted retirements.