Say it before it happens - Page 2

Mr V · 11 Jun 2002, 08:05 (Ref:310350)

Ferrari will just get a rap on the knuckles for embarressing Max so much that he had to write a letter of Apology to the Goveneror of Austria, but that will be it.

**Adam43** · 11 Jun 2002, 09:42 (Ref:310443)

Although I am just repeating what has been said I'll say it anyway:

The race. I don't think they should be punished for staging the win. It's allowed by the rules so surely there is no issue here. (I didn't like what they did, but they didn't actually do anything wrong).

The podium. They did do something wrong. And it should be pointed out that Michael won the race so he gets the trophy and has to stand on the top step. If he didn't want to do that they he could have let Rubens win! However it wasn't that bad a crime, so a token fine and a telling off!

I like the letter of apology. Perhaps they should have to send one to Liz too!

Wrex · 11 Jun 2002, 11:15 (Ref:310526)

Well said Adam

Valve Bounce · 11 Jun 2002, 11:21 (Ref:310529)

Quote:

Originally posted by Valve Bounce
Be real - nothing will happen - Nada, mo yeh, opsayo, ziltch, rien, buggerall. The best you can hope for is a mild reprimand.
NEXT!!

Valve[img]http://www.**************************/smilies/bouncy.gif[/img]

Read my lips - nothing!!

BBKing · 11 Jun 2002, 12:17 (Ref:310561)

Quote:

Originally posted by drexel
Yeah it was the 'podium' situation which caused all the furor....

Not too many ppl had any idea that the podium protocol was a problem until they were forced to realise there was nothing illegal about the race result...

If that doesn't work, i recommend trying to get Schumi for Tax Evasion...it worked for Capone

That is a good idea. Schumacher like Capone are very well known for their illegal activites yet nothing can be proved. We just need a smart lawyer to get him because he deserve it. He has cheated the fans in a very public way and still there are not rules that have been broken.

Yeah right. He was ordered to do that. That is what most of the Nazi generals said. As I recall nobody at Ferrari did nothing against Pironi for not following the team's orders.

Spritle · 11 Jun 2002, 12:45 (Ref:310590)

I'm sute the Ferrari legal staff is prepared for any inappropriate penalty.

I take the opposite view of the bad PR issue. Here in the States where F1 hardly gets any attention in the sporting press compared to the "circle jerks", the Austrian debacle was the BEST thing to happen to F1.The coverage was unlike any given to F1 in outlets the normally only make casual mention of a Grand Prix race.

God bad or ugly the results got attention directed to the sport, albeit not the type anyone would want. As far as the "team" aspect of of F1, Americans need only go as far as baseball to realize that unpopular decisions like removing a pitcher who is working a no hiiter to win a game is a part of sport. It sucks but the win is what is important. Cash is king and all sports are dictated by what it means for those involved if they are successful.

Greed, money and arrogance are now deeply entrenched in all sports although in the US we seem to be way ahead of the competition. You either get over it and start to enjoy the "games" with their new unwritten rules, or you *****, moan and complain and take up needlepoint.

**Adam43** · 11 Jun 2002, 12:49 (Ref:310595)

Quote:

Originally posted by Spritle
You either get over it and start to enjoy the "games" with their new unwritten rules, or you *****, moan and complain and take up needlepoint.

I don't like either of those alternatives.

I want a third option. I want to enjoy a sport where the competitors try their hardest to win, but above all act in a dignified, uncorrupted, gentlemanly manner and put the sport first.

And in gentlemanly I don't mean "after you, sir"

I am obviously not going to get this. So I will just have to hope that the competitors who embrace these values come out on top. IMO winning is not the be all and end all.

**Bononi** · 11 Jun 2002, 14:33 (Ref:310662)

Quote:

Originally posted by BBKing

That is a good idea. Schumacher like Capone are very well known for their illegal activites yet nothing can be proved. We just need a smart lawyer to get him because he deserve it. He has cheated the fans in a very public way and still there are not rules that have been broken.

Yeah right. He was ordered to do that. That is what most of the Nazi generals said. As I recall nobody at Ferrari did nothing against Pironi for not following the team's orders.

Hey BBKing, mate !

How are you doing ? What's up with the girls up there in Detroit ? Don't push too hard on them !

Don't you think this "Osama-Capone-Nazi" talk is a little bit over the top ? Let's keep it inside the F1 field, man.

Glen · 11 Jun 2002, 14:43 (Ref:310670)

Today, much like any other day, Schumacher is Bin Laden, Hitler, Al Capone and Darth Vader all rolled into one!

Red · 11 Jun 2002, 14:46 (Ref:310673)

Quote:

Originally posted by Bononi
Don't you think this "Osama-Capone-Nazi" talk is a little bit over the top ?

Nah, it's ok. We've seen that before: Clinton, Duvalier....

paul-collins · 11 Jun 2002, 15:29 (Ref:310719)

Quote:

Originally posted by Spritle
[B...As far as the "team" aspect of of F1, Americans need only go as far as baseball to realize that unpopular decisions like removing a pitcher who is working a no hiiter to win a game is a part of sport. It sucks but the win is what is important.[/B]

Except that
a) as far as getting the *team* the win, they had it whether Barelyfellow or TGF crossed the line first, and
b) a big part of the marketing of F1 is the WDC (not WCC), which is an individual award, not a team award per se.

Now, if baseball were marketed purely on the Cy Young winner, you'd have a worthy comparison there.

(Except, now that I'm thinking of it, when would a pitcher throwing a no-hitter be in danger of losing the game?)

Red · 11 Jun 2002, 15:38 (Ref:310721)

Quote:

Originally posted by paul-collins
[...]
b) a big part of the marketing of F1 is the WDC (not WCC), which is an individual award, not a team award per se.
[...]

Agreed. And the team wants it.

Another thing regarding team/individual aspect of Formula 1. Before 1958 there was no Constructors championship. Now, if that WDC is so individual (I do not question why do they get a car AND a salary) but I always wandered why back there in fifties, it was the CAR that scored points? For example, when Fangio switched car with Collins, he finished second, they both got 3 point each but it was the car that got those 6 points for the second finisher?

freud · 11 Jun 2002, 17:25 (Ref:310777)

Quote:

Originally posted by Goon
Today, much like any other day, Schumacher is Bin Laden, Hitler, Al Capone and Darth Vader all rolled into one!

Please dont over-dramatize the situation...

Splatz the Cow · 11 Jun 2002, 19:23 (Ref:310897)

This whole thing is a real shame coz actually the race was pretty good I thought, until the switch.

Valve Bounce · 12 Jun 2002, 05:26 (Ref:311255)

Quote:

Originally posted by Red
Nah, it's ok. We've seen that before: Clinton, Duvalier....

........Lewinsky,
OK, that's stooping a bit low.

Valve[img]http://www.**************************/smilies/bouncy.gif[/img]

Kex · 12 Jun 2002, 09:02 (Ref:311322)

Quote:

Originally posted by Splatz the Cow
This whole thing is a real shame coz actually the race was pretty good I thought, until the switch.

Agreed. It wasn't the most boring race of the season was it.

Ferrari will probably just get a little fine and an official reprimand for the misconduct on the podium. They (FIA) might also talk about 'the incident' and say something like "you went against the spirit of the sport" or something.

calais · 12 Jun 2002, 09:44 (Ref:311348)

Quote:

Originally posted by Glen
Today, much like any other day, Schumacher is Bin Laden, Hitler, Al Capone and Darth Vader all rolled into one!

your most intelligent post to date, glen!!

BBKing · 12 Jun 2002, 13:19 (Ref:311563)

Guys. You are getting lost in the innuendo. That is a good tactic that Schumacher himself and his marketing machine are pushing really hard.

Truth is that F1 has brought into disrepute and FIA, if they mean what they say, has the right to punish the offenders with a sanction that will, in some way, give the fans assurance that this farce does not happen again. If they cannot do anything to take away points from them make them pay half of their budgets to Arrows and Minardi.

Glen · 12 Jun 2002, 13:34 (Ref:311579)

It only brings the sport into disrepute if you asume "the sport" to be something that it is not... If you focus on the individual (and yes, the fact that there exists a WDC might lead you to think in that way) then sure, your enjoyment of the sport may have been compromised. But the trouble is that the Drivers' Championship operates alongside the Constructors' one, and all of the drivers are employed by the constructors.

I don't see many people looking back at the race "fixed" in Irvine's favour in 1999 and saying that incident brought the sport into disrepute. Which is where all this daft innuendo comes into it - there is no denying that this furore would not have flared up had it not concerned the German person.

For the record, I have stated my own view many times here - ie that it was silly and unecessary so early in the season - especially a season that was as good as over as soon as the F2002 was unveiled.

BBKing · 12 Jun 2002, 13:43 (Ref:311590)

Glen. Do yourself a favor and think. This is not about teamorders only. Irvine 99 was not perceived as something bad because of the situation. With one race to go and with Schumacher out of contention it was an smart move and that is fairly something that has been part of F1 since the begining.

Austria 2001 and 2002 are different because 2 things:
1. The Ferrari is the best car by far. No posibility of other team getting even close to that level of competition.
2. Barrichello was not out of the race for the championship.

You cannot say that team orders is the issue here. Like anything in life it has a lot to do with when and how.

Why is people booing Schumacher if the sport is not in disrepute? How do you like a champion that has to stand still while people is showing him the middle finger or the thumbs down? WWF1?

Glen · 12 Jun 2002, 13:47 (Ref:311593)

BBK

Do YOURSELF a favour and read what I just wrote:

Quote:

Originally posted by Glen
For the record, I have stated my own view many times here - ie that it was silly and unecessary so early in the season - especially a season that was as good as over as soon as the F2002 was unveiled.

Which is precisely what you just recycled whilst having the gall to accuse me of not thinking. The difference is that I am not so naieve as to imagine that it amounts to bringing the sport into disrepute, since what they did (like or not... I did not) is within the sport.

Red · 12 Jun 2002, 13:48 (Ref:311596)

Quote:

Originally posted by BBKing
Why is people booing Schumacher if the sport is not in disrepute?

Because those that are booing are booing and showing middle finger anyway? They only did it louder than usual.

BBKing · 12 Jun 2002, 13:55 (Ref:311601)

Quote:

Originally posted by Red
Because those that are booing are booing and showing middle finger anyway? They only did it louder than usual.

I know the truth is too hard to face. I guess you did not see the guys holding Ferrari flags with their thumbs down?

Red · 12 Jun 2002, 13:57 (Ref:311603)

Frankly? No I didn't. But I did see those guys wearing black or blue caps lol.

12 Jun 2002, 15:38 (Ref:311701)

The FIA control the sporting aspect of F1 not the fan aspect, any decision made at the hearing should be in regards to rules broken (ie the podium incident) not because fans think it's ruined the sport for them.