Best of the rest behind Schumacher this year?

[climb]

First of all I think that the "best of the rest" award should be abolished: nobody can be content of it! No more!
How long can it take to McLaren and Williams to catch up?
In Italy we have a historic horse race called "Palio di Siena"
In this contest, the second place is considered worse and more humiliating than the last; it may seem an extremistic vision, but a little of it should be imported to F1: after the winner there is no "best", just a pocketful of losers, particularly if we talk about prime teams.

[Bononi]

It's like Piquet usually says "The second place it's the first of the losers".


BTW, welcome to the forum, climb.

[climb]

Thanks! It's great to be UNO DI VOI!

[Bononi]

Just avoid Wrex... he's an infamous Ferrari hater and Marlboro's pit babes...


But there are nice aussies here that fancy pit babes

[Andrew2001]

What teh hell?
You people are blind!! Montoya is NOTHING compared to Kimi.
And the Williams McLaren Ferrari trio is pretty close car for car. But McLaren have made the best job of the new regs so far.

HANAA KIMI!!

[Logrence]

Originally posted by Logrence
Why does it have to be BEHIND Michael?

I think it's a fight between the McLaren boys this year.

What F1 needs most now is for Ferrari not to win. If Schumi doesn't want to have to take a pay cut in his next contract then he really ought to cede this championship to someone else.

Was I right or was I right?

Ferrari won't win this year - maybe they'll pull their socks up towards the end of the year, but it's in everyone's best interests if they don't win this season.

[Red]

You were wrong

Interesting. The part about why Formula 1 needs for Ferrari not to win, Ok, I accept that it have a point (still eludes me but anyway) But THAT part, you really should elaborate it a bit further...

Originally posted by Logrence
If Schumi doesn't want to have to take a pay cut in his next contract then he really ought to cede this championship to someone else.

Honestly, I really can't get it...

[ASCII Man]

I don't get it either, but he has to do it!

[Red]

Naaah, Rij, and that "someone else" should be..? No! Stop! Don't answer!!

[ASCII Man]

[Bononi]

Originally posted by Logrence
Was I right or was I right?

Ferrari won't win this year - maybe they'll pull their socks up towards the end of the year, but it's in everyone's best interests if they don't win this season.

Uhn... not really. They will win, but not as often as before. What I want is competition, and if in the end they succeed, it will be fine because it will be a tough battle.

[Vw gti 16v]

I voted for Kimi because i want him to be the closest contender and early signs show good but l8r in the races in the season i think the ferraris might be up front yet again

[Logrence]

OK, I shall explain.

Last year was boring. We have to agree on that for my argument to work here. Deathly boring, in fact. Positively snoozeworthy.

Who won 15 races? Ferrari?

2 races so far this season and Ferrari haven't been anywhere near the front at the end of the race. (when I say Ferrari I mean Schumacher - Rubens doesn't count)

Interest is huge. Ferrari aren't winning. *shock*

How is interest going to continue to grow? No Ferraris winning.

If Schumacher wins this season will people think the new rules have worked? Hardly.

Ferrari have money problems - they've finally realised it doesn't grow on trees. They need the new rules to work and fans to be watching F1 for them to still have sponsors.

OK, so they could dominate and win races this season - win a bit of prize money, but then the fans turn off and the whole of the sport has been devalued.

Surely it's better for them to take the fall just this one year and bring the sport back to its former glory? It's not like they won't win another championship for 21 years...

[esorniloc]

Has Schumacher already won this years title???

[Red]

Originally posted by Logrence
We have to agree on that for

Nope, actually we don't. It was NOT boring for me...teehee And we disagree even further. To say that Schumacher and Ferrari were nowhere near top is just wishfull thinking.... Indeed the races did not quite worked for them as planned, but they certainly were "close" to front... Ferrari aren't winning? Ferrari did not win by now, but I would advice you not to sleep this dream for much longer...

PS: Where the heck did that "Ferrari have money problem" story appeared anyway! Read my lips: the day when Scuderia Ferrari will be in financial troubles is the day when the rest of the grid closed the gates already.

[Peter Mallett]

There is a theory which goes something like "Ferrari's domination has lead to a reduction in their popularity". It goes further to suggest that if Ferrari start losing it would be more positive in terms of PR. Don't blame me I read it in Autosport before the seaon started.

So, are we seeing a PR exercise?

[Red]

Originally posted by Peter Mallett
There is a theory which goes something like "Ferrari's domination has lead to a reduction in their popularity".

Ok. I would NOT suggest that the following data are accurate and I have no knowledge about a professional poll regarding Formula 1. The F1Grandprixmanagers site that several of us joined post some interesting statistics about the registered users and fans. I repeat: I do NOT vouch for their accuracy) Anyway, here's how it goes:

Team	Your Favourites
Ferrari		774
McLaren		496
Williams	362
Minardi		225
BAR		187
   None		103
Jordan		97
Renault		86
Jaguar		77
Sauber		49
Toyota		29




Driver	Your Favourites
M. Schumacher	515
J. Verstappen	365
K. Raikkonen	360
J. Montoya	327
D. Coulthard	152
J. Villeneuve	120
   None		100
A. Pizzonia	98
J. Button	71
G. Fisichella	61
R. Schumacher	57
R. Barrichello	52
M. Webber	48
F. Alonso	42
H.H. Frentzen	30
J. Trulli	24
R. Firman	19
C. da Matta	14
N. Heidfeld	11
O. Panis	10
J. Wilson	9

Interpret it how do you want...

[Bononi]

Well... 70% of them are Italians and 30% germans !

[Thorstone]

If the car will work fine,and no blow-ups I´m sure of it will be Kimi

[Wrex]

As for the teams Red, the top 4 make sense, but they get a little odd after that.

I also not that Steve Neilson has over 300 teams registered

[Logrence]

Ferrari are facing cut backs in their budget - FIAT is slowly going under, and they need to get as much money as possible together - when they're spending $450 million a year on the Gestione, you can probably guess there's room for cutbacks...

Were you not at all suspicious at the level of enthusiasm for the new rules displayed by Ferrari? At face value they stand to lose the most from the new rules...

[Andrew2001]

Schumacher this, Schumacher that, Schumacher is god. Well guess what, I don't subscribe to this god-status **** of Schumacher.
When he is in the pack, or getting shoved around the track by the few drivers in f1 today that have the balls, he doesn't look so hot does he?
Mika lacked only one thing in a comparison with SChumacher, his arrogant selfminded attitude to make the team work to his interests and not to the other driver's equally.
He had the speed and the reliability and the brain to be the best and he was. It's funny how when Mika won races in 1998-1999 everyone said it's just the car, he is nothing special, yet when Schumacher wins everything in 2001-2002 he is a god, a legend, better than Senna, the best ever in F1. hahaha.
DC VS KIMI VS MONTOYA for 2003 honours

[golem]

Look so hot? I don't LIKE schumacher but the fact that at melbourne with no barge boards and smashed up undertray, he was still on the pace.

At Sepang, again, 4 stops, bad race strategy calls by his team and a drive through, and he still managed to pull in sixth. He effectively BLASTED by Trulli and Button first time through and caught right onto Trulli by the end only to run out of tyre.

Look so hot? Out of any man on the track in the past two races that guys regained more places than just about any. I'd say he's fairly seething but there's no way he doesn't look like a real racer. I don't like some of his tactics but his car control is still very possibly the best out there.

[Gt_R]

Quote:"What F1 needs most now is for Ferrari not to win..Was I right or was I right?"

How about absolutely wrong? Its only fans of teams/drivers that actually subscribe to such shallow thinking (no offense). Put it this way, if what happened last year to Ferrari is to happen to Minardi instead, with Yoong winning 11 races and so on far ahead of the pack, and that has been the growing trend for the couple of years, interest will be down too..

What F1 needs now is competition and suspense. Wondering who will win, and watching a quality fight. What real fans want is real racing. Not a predictable Schumacher, Kimi or Montoya win at every race.

Of course, watching your favourite team lose at every race may turn some of their fans off from the TV sets...

I admire Schumacher, and i make no secrets of of that. He is professional, talented, and put simply, a driver better than all others on the current grid. He had been at the top step of the competition for a decade, a very long time in F1. He had seen young guns like JV come and wilt. He had competed with past greats, he had competed with future champions. And he had put them all in the weeds more than once. NOBODY claims he is a GOD, i personally do not subscribe to that, but for anybody to think that he is the weak-minded, just-lucky, lousy racer who just had a superior car to cover his arse and lack of ability is nothing but pure cr*p.

Sure, he will be beaten. But at least his results are far more superior to what anybody can lay claim too. What are the odds that a 33-40 year old Senna can still win young Kimi day in day out?

Michael is just another F1 driver, though one of the greater sparkles, to pass by F1. Came in a young gun, bow out a mastero. Its a cycle, and sadly Michael is coming to the age that Mika, Prost, Alesi, Hill, had all experienced.He had reached his peak, and so far is staying at it. For people to blast him in the hope of seeing him quit a sports he enjoy is pathetic.

[Logrence]

Originally posted by Gt_R
Quote:"What F1 needs most now is for Ferrari not to win..Was I right or was I right?"

How about absolutely wrong? Its only fans of teams/drivers that actually subscribe to such shallow thinking (no offense). Put it this way, if what happened last year to Ferrari is to happen to Minardi instead, with Yoong winning 11 races and so on far ahead of the pack, and that has been the growing trend for the couple of years, interest will be down too..

[/RANT] ?

And in that case, Einstein, I would be sitting here saying that F1 needs Minardi not to win. That is, if they'd dominated for the last 3 years and everyone was sick of it. Except Red.

Shallow thinking? I had to explain to everyone what I meant so they could understand - it wasn't that shallow at all.

Posted by Andrew2001
When he is in the pack, or getting shoved around the track by the few drivers in f1 today that have the balls, he doesn't look so hot does he?
Mika lacked only one thing in a comparison with SChumacher, his arrogant selfminded attitude to make the team work to his interests and not to the other driver's equally.

That's shallow thinking.

And fans of teams/drivers? I think you'll find there are a few people round here who fall into that category. But not me, unfortunately. I always maintain that I'm an F1 fan, not a fan of any particular team - not that has anything to do with the argument.

The simple fact of the matter is that new rules were brought in. Why? Ostensibly to stop Ferrari winning.

Interest in F1 is huge at the moment. Why? Because Ferrari aren't winning.