Over performing / under performing - first quarter of the season - Page 2

Hugh Jarce · 21 Apr 2003, 19:32 (Ref:575855)

Quote:

Originally posted by Damon
I think this means under and over performing compared to your own expectations.

Thanks Damon - That's what I was getting at!

Having said that, if you had asked Alonso his expectations for the first four races, even with ambition etc factored in, I think he would have been highly surprised to have got two podiums - therefore you could say that even in his own eyes he has 'overperformed'.

Snrub · 21 Apr 2003, 21:40 (Ref:575933)

Regarding Webber, at Imola we saw the two Williams and Kimi with times all over the place as well. All four are on Michelin tires. How's a driver suppose to race if they can't have reasonable consistancy from the tires. Bridgestone drivers simply drive the race and the tires work for them. It's been suggested the the Michelins are faster, but it does a driver no good if half the time they're really fast, half the time really slow.

Damon · 21 Apr 2003, 21:56 (Ref:575948)

I'd agree. How can a driver be expected to drive constantly on the limit when that limit is constantly changing?

MichaelH · 21 Apr 2003, 22:58 (Ref:575990)

Ferrari
MSchumacher -1
Barrichello 0

Williams

RSchumacher 0
Montoya -1

McLaren

Raikkonen +3
Coulthard +1

Renault

Alonso +3
Trulli +1

Sauber

Frentzen +1
Heidfeld -1

Jordan

Fisichella +2
Firman -12

Jaguar

Webber +3
Pizzonia -3

BAR

Button +1
Villeneuve 0

Minardi

Verstappen +1
Wilson -1

Toyota

Panis 0
Da Matta 0

F1 in general +3

Led ZeppF1 · 22 Apr 2003, 04:37 (Ref:576101)

Mine:

+3 : Alonso, Fisichella
+2 : Raikkonen, Webber
+1 : Barrichello, Frentzen
0 : Coulthard, R Schumacher, Verstappen, Wilson
-1 : M. Schumacher, Montoya, Trulli, Panis, da Matta,
Heidfeld, Villeneuve
-2 : Pizzonia, Firman

corkholio · 22 Apr 2003, 05:10 (Ref:576110)

GOS (Gilles' Overpaid Son) has definitely underperformed. The way he was talking smack about an average driver like Button led me to believe to believe that GOS would be leaving Bunsen in the dust. Oh yeah, wasn't GOS supposed to be fighting it out with Ferrari, McLaren, and Williams this year, on the lead lap anyway?

golem · 22 Apr 2003, 05:48 (Ref:576127)

Michael H, so what you're telling me is that Pizzonia in the faster car hasn't even got up into the points for any decent period of time, deserves -3, while Firman who had been pitted just a lap early in malaysia so dropped a points finish due to fuel starvation deserves a -12? I mean, who, exactly, is in the older engined, lower budgeted team here?

**Peter Mallett** · 22 Apr 2003, 09:32 (Ref:576256)

Quote:

Originally posted by Damon
Oh come on Peter, same old argument we always have but Ralf has clearly not driven the better race of the Williams pair anywhere aside from Imola. Regardless of the results Ralf was made to look very silly in Brazil, was outperformed by JPM in Malaysia despite the fact that Juan was running around in 12th through no fault of his own (check the lap times) and was a nobody in Aus. Results do not paint the whole picture Peter, a performance is not always summed up by where the driver finishes.

But Damon. every time you post about Ralf you suggest he's no good (only here do you say he underperforms) therefore if he's scoring points and is ahead of his team mate (at the mo) he must surely be exceeding your expectations.

Mark Webber · 22 Apr 2003, 10:10 (Ref:576290)

Ferrari -2
Michael -1
Rubens 0

Williams -2
Ralf 0
Montoya -1

McLaren +2
Kimi +3
DC 0

Renault +3
Alonso +2.5
Trulli 0

Sauber -2
Heidfeld -1
Frentzen 0

Jordan -1
Fisichella 0
Firman -2

BAR +2
Villeneuve +1
Button 0

Jaguar +2
Webber +3
Pizzonia -2

Minardi -2
Verstappen -2
Wilson 0

Toyota -3
Panis -1
Da Matta -2

I'am being a tad tough on Alonso due to the yellow flag drama at Brazil Saftey first and all that

climb · 22 Apr 2003, 11:42 (Ref:576343)

Raikkonen +3
Alonso +3
Fisichella +2
Webber +1
Wilson +1 (eight overtakings in a lap: not to be forgotten)
Coulthard +1
Barrichello 0
Villeneuve 0
Button 0
Verstappen 0
M.Schumacher -1
Frentzen -1
Firman -1
R.Schumacher -1
Montoya -2
Heidfeld -2
Trulli -2
Panis -2
Da Matta -3
Pizzonia -3

MichaelH · 22 Apr 2003, 19:56 (Ref:576945)

Quote:

Originally posted by golem
Michael H, so what you're telling me is that Pizzonia in the faster car hasn't even got up into the points for any decent period of time, deserves -3, while Firman who had been pitted just a lap early in malaysia so dropped a points finish due to fuel starvation deserves a -12? I mean, who, exactly, is in the older engined, lower budgeted team here?

this is based on personal expectation golem. I thought Firman, after winning Nippon, would drive brilliantly, I never expected anything of Pizzonia and he's still been useless. See?

mariov · 22 Apr 2003, 21:07 (Ref:577144)

If we compare them on a point basis...we have to update last years points standing to this years system

as an example with points given to the first 8 finishers last year...MS would have scrored 36 pts last year compared to the 18 he has so far.

so so far

McLaren... 2002 15 pts....2003 51 pts +3

K Reikonnen..2002 6 pts 2003 32 pts +3
D Coulthard 2002 9 pts 2003 19 pts +2

Ferrari 2002 45 pts 2003 32 pts -2

M Schumacher 2002 36 pts 2003 18 pts -3
R Barrichelo 2002 8 pts 2003 14 pts +1

Williams 2002 49 pts 2003 23 pts -3

JP Montoya 2002 25pts 2003 10 pts -3
R Schumacher 2002 24pts 2003 13 pts -2

Renault 2002 14 pts 2003 9 pts -1

F. Allonso 2002 N/a 2003 17pts +3
J Trulli 2002 0 pts 2003 9 pts +1

Sauber 2002 1pts 2003 8 pts +1

N Heifield 2002 4 pts 2003 1 pts 0
HH Frenzen 2002 0 pts 2003 7 pts +1

Jordan 2002 0 pts 2003 10 pts +2

G Fissichela 2002 0pts 2003 10 pts +2
Firman 2002 N/A 2003 0 pts 0

BAR 2002 3 pts 2003 6 pts +1

J Villeneuve 2002 3 pts 2003 3 pts 0
J Button 2002 14 pts 2003 3 pts -2

toyota 2002 8 pts 2003 0 pts -2

O Panis 2002 0 pts 2003 0 pts
C DeMatta 2002 N/a 2003 0pts
Jaguar 2002 9 pts 2003 0 pts -2

M webber 2002 4 pts 2003 0 pts 0
Pizzona 2002 N/A 2003 0 pts 0

Minardi 2002 6 pts 2003 0 pts -1

wilson 2002 N/A 2003 0 pts 0
Vestappen 2002 N/A 2003 0 pts 0

This is based only on the points difference from last year on an equal points system....but it gives a good comparison....and interesting one at least

**Peter Mallett** · 23 Apr 2003, 06:19 (Ref:577632)

One question. I thought Trulli got some points last year.

Don K · 23 Apr 2003, 06:32 (Ref:577643)

Quote:

Originally posted by Peter Mallett
One question. I thought Trulli got some points last year.

Not during the first 4 races. He failed to finish the first 3 races, and he finished 9th at San Marino.

corkholio · 23 Apr 2003, 07:23 (Ref:577687)

Whino Trulli was 5th at Melbourne.

Don K · 23 Apr 2003, 07:45 (Ref:577704)

Quote:

Originally posted by corkholio
Whino Trulli was 5th at Melbourne.

No.
He was 5th in Melbourne 2003.
In Melbourne last year, he spun of.
During the first 4 races he didn't finish in the top 8.
So he wouldn't hav had any points after 4 races, even if this years point system would have been applied.
Which means, that under Mariov's system his 9 points of 2003 are a clear aprovement over his 0 virtual points of 2002, resulting in the line:
J Trulli 2002 0 pts 2003 9 pts +1
(which is what we are discussing at the moment).

**Peter Mallett** · 23 Apr 2003, 08:00 (Ref:577718)

Ah.

mariov · 23 Apr 2003, 16:25 (Ref:578201)

Quote:

Originally posted by corkholio
Whino Trulli was 5th at Melbourne.

Who the hell is Whino?

mariov · 23 Apr 2003, 17:00 (Ref:578254)

as for the GOS that seems to be attached to JV....let us take a real good look at it...

You are a known winner...a WDC...you get an offer to join a start up team...that means that for the next 3 years you will not benefit from the purses given for race wins...or for top 6 places....and the team begs you to join and compensate you for doing so...by including the lost earning in your salary...what would you do? Only a fool would not ask for the compensation...JV aint a fool....and it turned out he was right....

corkholio · 23 Apr 2003, 19:48 (Ref:578505)

Quote:

Originally posted by mariov
as for the GOS that seems to be attached to JV....let us take a real good look at it...

You are a known winner...a WDC...you get an offer to join a start up team...that means that for the next 3 years you will not benefit from the purses given for race wins...or for top 6 places....and the team begs you to join and compensate you for doing so...by including the lost earning in your salary...what would you do? Only a fool would not ask for the compensation...JV aint a fool....and it turned out he was right....

So that still makes him overpaid. The results speak for themselves. Especially when the second highest paid driver gets outqualified by a Minardi because the team forgot to install cruise control on the car.

mariov · 23 Apr 2003, 21:17 (Ref:578631)

yeah yeah yeah...forgot to install cruise control...you just proved you really dont know him...and you base you comment purely on fiction....You just seem to be going from tread to tread and bashing JV everychance you get..still stuck on the us grand prix...lol....
If it wasn't for him joinning Pollock, Reynard and compaby...the Bat money would have gone to Benetton....Tyrrell would have been the first team to go under...and Renault would not have re-joinned F1...so be happy....rollllllls

corkholio · 24 Apr 2003, 01:52 (Ref:578894)

Yeah, whatever, Miss Cleo.

mariov · 24 Apr 2003, 02:03 (Ref:578908)

lol...good comeback...rollllls Miss Cleo lol..".pick myself off the floor" rolls even more....lol you must be looking at your own reflection in the mirror...puts the cork back in the "whine" bottle....

Well im off to the "Newtown" for a late supper....They have good wine there...Yes wine and not Whine....

corkholio · 24 Apr 2003, 02:09 (Ref:578916)

So you have yet to provide a single reason as to why GOS has not comprehensively put an inferior driver Button in his place. That's not to mention that the only thing you have to use to defend your underperforming hero is mere speculation and not facts...

Must be great to be your waiter knowing that you actually like to overpay.

mariov · 24 Apr 2003, 02:52 (Ref:578949)

lol....facts....lol...start listening to the races...and not the first few cars.....The facts are what he has accomplished with the Bar truck since the beginning....Button....so far he is the one underperforming....he is way short of his points level compared at the same time last year.....he has screwed up twice now durring races....JV has kept it on the race track..and scored the same amount of points as Button....with a lot less track time...he was failled by his ride....unlike Button who lost it twice so far....

JV will be ahead at the end of the season....

I might even help you and create a post Called...Why do you hate JV"...so you can get it out of your system once and for all, just vent out....take a deep breath...

And yes I'm great with my waiters....since I put myself trough college and university doing exactly that....I take great pride in being a good tipper....some of us have earned it....And overpaid...you have obviously never eaten there....

I and many others have provided enough reasons...read the posts....go on....read them....but you seem to be fixated on Indy and his salary....and just whish to ignore the facts and truth.....glad you dont know what I earn a year...you would be ****ed at me also....rollllls

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Under/Over performing	Wrex	Formula One	30	8 Apr 2005 22:02
Who's Performing.	Panzer	Australasian Touring Cars.	9	18 Apr 2004 11:22
Best Performing Touring Car Ever?	adamp_uk	Touring Car Racing	4	1 Feb 2002 01:14