Home  
Site Partners: SpotterGuides Veloce Books  
Related Sites: Your Link Here  

Go Back   TenTenths Motorsport Forum > Single Seater Racing > Formula One

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 30 May 2003, 11:29 (Ref:614633)   #26
corkholio
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,153
corkholio should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Alesi in 90 and Modena in 91.
corkholio is offline  
Quote
Old 30 May 2003, 11:51 (Ref:614641)   #27
bradenc
Racer
 
bradenc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
United Kingdom
cambridgeshire
Posts: 357
bradenc should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
piquetfan, I am too young to remember or even ahave seen many of the races you speak of.

Mansell had already passed senna on track in the same race, so there was a chance, difficult, but he'd done it once .....could he do it again.

Do not be sorry for me, if I want pity I will ask for it.
bradenc is offline  
__________________
"Before you criticise someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That
way, when you criticise them you're a mile away and you have their shoes."
Quote
Old 30 May 2003, 12:00 (Ref:614646)   #28
piquetfan
Racer
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 139
piquetfan should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
DOn't feel bad! I am sorry. I just wanted to say that those races are available on video. Sorry if I sounded too harsh. I am feeling sorry for myself
piquetfan is offline  
Quote
Old 30 May 2003, 12:07 (Ref:614649)   #29
bradenc
Racer
 
bradenc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
United Kingdom
cambridgeshire
Posts: 357
bradenc should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I am sure I'll get over it, I'll keep an eye out for those races, some flaky satellite channell is bound to show them sooner or later.

Why are yer feeling sorry for yerself, have you lost yer wheels?
bradenc is offline  
__________________
"Before you criticise someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That
way, when you criticise them you're a mile away and you have their shoes."
Quote
Old 30 May 2003, 12:28 (Ref:614678)   #30
f1manoz
Veteran
 
f1manoz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Australia
Lincolnshire, UK
Posts: 7,294
f1manoz should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridf1manoz should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridf1manoz should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Sorry, but I don't bow to Senna's drive in 1992, if anything Mansells was better. Senna had the advantage of being in front, Mansell never gave up the attack after a problem that could have easily put him out of the race.

New tyres or not, it's basically impossible to pass at Monaco. Senna spent so much time sliding during those last few laps that it was impossible even for Nigel Mansell to get through!
f1manoz is offline  
__________________
Sunderland Til I Die!
Quote
Old 30 May 2003, 12:59 (Ref:614711)   #31
Adam43
14th
1% Club
 
Adam43's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
European Union
New Orleans
Posts: 44,206
Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!
Thank God for krt917, otherwise most of the best ones wouldn't have been mentioned!

As well as a lot of those mentioned, Stewart in 1971, he only had rear brakes for the entire race.

Last edited by Adam43; 30 May 2003 at 13:04.
Adam43 is offline  
__________________
Brum brum
Quote
Old 30 May 2003, 13:02 (Ref:614712)   #32
Adam43
14th
1% Club
 
Adam43's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
European Union
New Orleans
Posts: 44,206
Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!
Quote:
Originally posted by bradenc
Mansell had already passed senna on track in the same race, so there was a chance, difficult, but he'd done it once .....could he do it again.
Had he? I thought he started from pole and pulled away?

Both drover extremely well. I was, however, surprised that Senna was close enough to get teh lead even with an extra stop by Mansell. Such was the dominance of Nige and Williams.
Adam43 is offline  
__________________
Brum brum
Quote
Old 30 May 2003, 13:21 (Ref:614732)   #33
BootsOntheSide
Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
England
Eastbourne, England
Posts: 13,000
BootsOntheSide should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridBootsOntheSide should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridBootsOntheSide should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridBootsOntheSide should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
The best car doesn't neccessarily win. The best CHASSIS has an advantage, for sure, althoguht the engine power is irrelevant (drivability certainly isn't). But, the best driver in the second-best car usually beats the second-best driver in the best car. Look at Schuamcher winning in the 1997 Ferrari, or Senna in the 87 Lotus or 93 Williams.

DC's win last year wasn't great, but the 2000 one was lucky. If Schumacher hadn't've broken down, Mikey had it in the bag. Trulli could've held off DC but for that gearbox as well.

Best drive ever? Gilles Villeneuve probably, although he was lucky that Jones broke down near the end (just after Murray Walker praised the 'legendary reliability of the Williams'!). Schumacher in 1997 comes close, but that spin takes it away from him. 1993 was Senna's best effort. Best drive that didn't win has to be Mansell in 1992, he was so unlucky to end his career without a Monaco win.

Last edited by BootsOntheSide; 30 May 2003 at 13:22.
BootsOntheSide is offline  
Quote
Old 30 May 2003, 13:46 (Ref:614755)   #34
piquetfan
Racer
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 139
piquetfan should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
[QUOTE]Originally posted by BootsOntheSide
The best car doesn't neccessarily win. The best CHASSIS has an advantage, for sure, althoguht the engine power is irrelevant (drivability certainly isn't). But, the best driver in the second-best car usually beats the second-best driver in the best car. Look at Schuamcher winning in the 1997 Ferrari, or Senna in the 87 Lotus or 93 Williams.

McLaren in the 80s and then Williams and then McLaren with Mika again were the best cars and quite dominant at Monte Carlo. As I said, you need something special like rain or lots of retirements to have a surprise in Monaco.

In 1997, Schumacher made the difference being much faster than the others because of the rain, but in 1993 Prost had pole and was going to win, then he had problems with the pitstop and finished one lap down.


Best drive ever? Gilles Villeneuve probably, although he was lucky that Jones broke down near the end (just after Murray Walker praised the 'legendary reliability of the Williams'!).

He was also lucky that Piquet (who had pole position and was leading confortably) was hit by a backmarker and retired (it wasn't Salazar this time though).


1993 was Senna's best effort

Far from this, with Prost having problems (he lost almost one minute in two pitstops), and Schumacher blowing the engine while in the lead.

Best drive that didn't win has to be Mansell in 1992, he was so unlucky to end his career without a Monaco win.

No way. Senna/Bellof 1984 were much better. Mansell had a great car and was just unlucky that he had a puncture, otherwise it would have been a predictable win by the best car.

Last edited by piquetfan; 30 May 2003 at 13:47.
piquetfan is offline  
Quote
Old 30 May 2003, 14:24 (Ref:614792)   #35
DNQ
Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Australia
Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 4,071
DNQ should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Hmmm...

1961 - MOSS takes the win in a much slower car then the Ferrari's
1970 - RINDT overtakes Brabham at the last corner to take the win
1984 - BELLOF and SENNA chasing down Prost in the rain
1992 - MANSELL pushes Senna hard all the way
1996 - Calculated drive nets PANIS the win in tricky conditions
1997 - SCHUMACHER in a league of his own
2001 - BERNOLDI doesn't crack under pressure
2002 - Controlled drive from COULTHARD to beat the faster Ferrari

I'll think of more after posting this I am sure.
DNQ is offline  
__________________
Don't let manufacturers ruin F1. RIP Tyrrell, Arrows, Prost, Minardi, Jordan.
Quote
Old 30 May 2003, 14:44 (Ref:614814)   #36
Lee Janotta
Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location:
Cleveland, Ohio, USA
Posts: 4,936
Lee Janotta should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
[QUOTE]Originally posted by piquetfan
Quote:
you need something special like rain or lots of retirements to have a surprise in Monaco.
What you need to have an impressive drive is a racer doing something with a car that otherwise wouldn't happen!

In '92, Senna absolutely destroyed his rear tires holding off Mansell for the win, he was driving the car well beyond it's limits. This in a year when Mansell and his FW14B-Renault was absolutely untouchable on most weekends. If it had been any driver on that track but Senna in front of him, he'd have gone past and taken the win.

Yes, top get his victory, Gilles needed Piquet to screw up. But the sheer pace at which he drove that miserable truck of a Ferrari, which shouldn't even have finished on the same lap as the leaders, is the stuff of legends. He got absolutely as close to every barrier around that track as he could without throwing the whole race away.

Likewise, you can't call it a brilliant drive if you've got the very best car in dry conditions... So M$ or Rubens winning in the F2003 won't be an impressive drive, because it's expected. _Maybe_ if Schumi laps the whole field, but, short of that, there's not much to applaud!
Lee Janotta is offline  
__________________
"Put a ****ing wheel on there! Let me go out again!"
-Gilles Villeneuve, Zandvoort, 1979
Quote
Old 30 May 2003, 15:16 (Ref:614841)   #37
piquetfan
Racer
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 139
piquetfan should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Hi LJ,

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Lee Janotta
What you need to have an impressive drive is a racer doing something with a car that otherwise wouldn't happen!

I would say that in Monza or Spa you can do it, but Monaco does not favour it.

In '92, Senna absolutely destroyed his rear tires holding off Mansell for the win, he was driving the car well beyond it's limits. This in a year when Mansell and his FW14B-Renault was absolutely untouchable on most weekends. If it had been any driver on that track but Senna in front of him, he'd have gone past and taken the win.

Well, he had to destroy his tyres as much as Bernoldi had to destroy his to keep DC behind him. The difference between McLAren/Williams in 1992 and Arrows/McLaren in 2001 was more or less the same (well above one second per lap), and in both cases there was no overtake. ANd I don't think that Bernoldi's drive was exceptional. I want to be consistnt, which is why I don't think Senna's drive in 1992 was impressive - I would rather go with his performance in 1984 - that was something that the driver and not the car made happen.

Yes, top get his victory, Gilles needed Piquet to screw up. But the sheer pace at which he drove that miserable truck of a Ferrari, which shouldn't even have finished on the same lap as the leaders, is the stuff of legends. He got absolutely as close to every barrier around that track as he could without throwing the whole race away.

I don't think the Ferrri was a truck - it certainly shouldn't be lapped, but cretainly it wasn't the best car. THat was a great drive by Gilles.

Likewise, you can't call it a brilliant drive if you've got the very best car in dry conditions... So M$ or Rubens winning in the F2003 won't be an impressive drive, because it's expected. _Maybe_ if Schumi laps the whole field, but, short of that, there's not much to applaud!

That applies to most of Prost and Senna's wins - actually, to most of McLaren and Williams'wins in the last 20 years. As I said, without rain or a many retirements, Monaco is very predictable.

Last edited by piquetfan; 30 May 2003 at 15:17.
piquetfan is offline  
Quote
Old 30 May 2003, 15:24 (Ref:614847)   #38
Mekola
Veteran
 
Mekola's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Kiribati
Atlantis
Posts: 6,635
Mekola should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridMekola should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridMekola should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Fangio in Monaco 1950 and 1957. In both races he prevented avoid crashed cars and won with dominance.
Mekola is offline  
Quote
Old 30 May 2003, 15:42 (Ref:614876)   #39
Lee Janotta
Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location:
Cleveland, Ohio, USA
Posts: 4,936
Lee Janotta should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Well, a lot of people did refer to the 126C as a truck at the time, and the turbo engine had such turbo lag that it acted more like an evil on-off switch. He managed to put teammate Pironi *spits* a lap down in the same car!

Indeed, Senna had the best car a lot of the time. It's what he did '84-'87 and in '92 and '93, when his performance was handicapped, that was really brilliant.

As far as Senna vs. Bernouldi... When a washout spends his day holding back one of the leaders, it's just being stupid, as Ralf proved at Spain, just trying to ruin other people's days. Senna managed to hold off Mansell for the _win_, and that's skill. Plus, let's be honest, Mansell was a _much_ more aggressive overtaker than Coultard, who some feel is conservative to a fault.
Lee Janotta is offline  
__________________
"Put a ****ing wheel on there! Let me go out again!"
-Gilles Villeneuve, Zandvoort, 1979
Quote
Old 30 May 2003, 15:51 (Ref:614888)   #40
piquetfan
Racer
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 139
piquetfan should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Hey!

Bernoldi and DC were racing FOR POSITION!

DC had a problem in the early stages of the race, Bernoldi did exactly what Senna did - he drove defensively and held DC back.

I am saying that it is easy to do it in Monaco. Try to be defensive at Spa or Monza!
piquetfan is offline  
Quote
Old 30 May 2003, 16:42 (Ref:614965)   #41
alesi95
Veteran
 
alesi95's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location:
Edinburgh
Posts: 1,471
alesi95 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Don't forget Alboreto in 1985

He led and then went don't an escape road on a patch of oil, then he retook the lead from Prost then he had a puncture and fought back to a close second place.
alesi95 is offline  
Quote
Old 30 May 2003, 18:17 (Ref:615064)   #42
EERO
Ten-Tenths Hall of Fame
Veteran
 
EERO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 1999
United States
Massachusetts
Posts: 5,306
EERO should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridEERO should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridEERO should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridEERO should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Quote:
Originally posted by piquetfan
Hey!

Bernoldi and DC were racing FOR POSITION!

DC had a problem in the early stages of the race, Bernoldi did exactly what Senna did - he drove defensively and held DC back.
Yet Bernoldi still needed to pit so "Position" was a moot point. Once Bernoldi pitted, DC flew away at several seconds a lap. EB was within his "rights" but was being churlish.

krt917, thanks for the Beltioise mention. The 1972 race was the perfect confluence of car, conditions and the best drive of a racing career.
EERO is offline  
__________________
Go Tribe!!!!
Quote
Old 30 May 2003, 18:23 (Ref:615070)   #43
piquetfan
Racer
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 139
piquetfan should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Don't blame Bernoldi. He was getting paid to be in the best position (not to be polite), and being ahead of a McLaren was a great thing for Arrows.

Blame Monaco, where even a far-from-briliant defensive drive is enough to hold back a much faster car.
piquetfan is offline  
Quote
Old 30 May 2003, 18:44 (Ref:615093)   #44
NiceGuyEddie
Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 1,354
NiceGuyEddie should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally posted by piquetfan
Hey!

Bernoldi and DC were racing FOR POSITION!

DC had a problem in the early stages of the race, Bernoldi did exactly what Senna did - he drove defensively and held DC back.
hm...

Not quite. Bernoldi was compromizing his racespeed in order to keep DC well behind teammate Verstappen. In other words, Bernoldi's race was sacrificed in order to keep DC behind. There was really no point for Bernoldi to do what he did. He would've noted faster laptimes if he'd just let DC go. He never stood at chance anyway because of the pitstops.

Senna was gunning for the win while he tried keeping Mansell at bay. So Senna had all the points in the world to do what he did.

So yes, keeping someone behind for the sake of keeping them behind, is really not that difficult at Monaco. So I don't understand what all the fuss is about when people are applauding DC's victory in 2002. Ordinary drive in my book. Good for keeping it out of the barriers, but so do all the finishers.
NiceGuyEddie is offline  
__________________
GP Driver meeting -
Coulthard to Taku: "I wouldn´t have tried that move on Barrichello."
Taku to Coulthard: "I know..."
Quote
Old 30 May 2003, 19:38 (Ref:615153)   #45
Irv the Swerve
Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location:
Kildicken, far side a Bally
Posts: 624
Irv the Swerve should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
The Bernoldi-Coulthard 'dice' was fair game in my book. If McLaren didn't have problems at the start then they wouldn't have been in that position in the first place. As for Bernoldi, he did what he was paying to do - race. did Coulthard throw the nose in even once?, nah. You reckon Michael Schumacher would have spent that long behind him - neither do I.

As for Mr. Dennis - well, that speaks for itself.
Irv the Swerve is offline  
__________________
'I'm a winner', What the **** does that mean? Anybody can utter the words.
Quote
Old 30 May 2003, 20:12 (Ref:615190)   #46
jetsetter
Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Australia
Ipswich Qld Australia
Posts: 2,508
jetsetter should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Panis in 96, one for the underdogs.
jetsetter is offline  
Quote
Old 30 May 2003, 21:44 (Ref:615269)   #47
Yoong Montoya
Veteran
 
Yoong Montoya's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 1,421
Yoong Montoya should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally posted by piquetfan
If those were the best laps you've seen, I am sorry for you. Try Brazil 1982, Monaco 1984, Hungary 1886, Adelaide 1986, Japan 1988, Brazil 1991, Barcelona 1996, Monaco and Spa 1997 etc.
...and Suzuka 1994
Yoong Montoya is offline  
Quote
Old 30 May 2003, 21:52 (Ref:615277)   #48
Yoong Montoya
Veteran
 
Yoong Montoya's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 1,421
Yoong Montoya should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
In '92, Senna absolutely destroyed his rear tires holding off Mansell for the win, he was driving the car well beyond it's limits. This in a year when Mansell and his FW14B-Renault was absolutely untouchable on most weekends. If it had been any driver on that track but Senna in front of him, he'd have gone past and taken the win.[/B][/QUOTE]


Well, Michael Schumacher wasn't able to get past David Coulthard in 2002, and that was pretty similar to Senna and Mansell in 1992. The way I see it is - same situation, different drivers.
Yoong Montoya is offline  
Quote
Old 30 May 2003, 21:55 (Ref:615281)   #49
Yoong Montoya
Veteran
 
Yoong Montoya's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 1,421
Yoong Montoya should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally posted by BootsOntheSide
1993 was Senna's best effort.
I think he only won that one because Schumacher's engine blew up while he was leading. Then again maybe it was some sort of justice for Senna after 1984
Yoong Montoya is offline  
Quote
Old 31 May 2003, 01:00 (Ref:615407)   #50
Logrence
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Wales
Posts: 2,299
Logrence should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally posted by piquetfan
Don't blame Bernoldi. He was getting paid to...
To be fair, he wasn't getting any money - he was giving Arrows the Red Bull money - not to be pedantic
Logrence is offline  
Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Monaco t.v re-run Dan Fielden Formula One 2 24 May 2005 21:55
Monaco!!!!!!!!! Knowlesy Formula One 49 26 May 2003 15:45
Front wheel drive.... Or rear wheel drive? paul c Road Car Forum 45 9 Apr 2003 22:51
Monaco GP: Come say hello RickP:Clio51 Trackside 26 30 May 2002 20:16
monaco gp Mini Mika Formula One 7 25 May 2001 02:58


All times are GMT. The time now is 02:39.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Original Website Copyright © 1998-2003 Craig Antil. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2004-2021 Royalridge Computing. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2021-2022 Grant MacDonald. All Rights Reserved.