NEW ZIP / Renault scholarship !!

[JR Ewing]

So, according to Autosport this deal is with more than one Renault team and costs £130,000 for the two years.

Since Zip costs about £30,000 and I know quality teams like Falcon and Paston have done, I believe, 5 figure deals with drivers like Byrne and Thomas this year I can't really see much point anymore...

[JR Ewing]

could also do FF for about £55k...

[DSM]

So the 'Scholarship' is just that you pay, more or less, normal rates for each series?

[TeamJLR]

Much more than one season of ford then!

[Jensen]

The Scholarship deal is simple, from feed back from drivers such as Neil Doran, Jamie Morrow, Mike Spencer, Luke Hines and Gary Paffet it is said that the step from ZIP to Renault is easier than from FF. With this in mind and an aim to cut costs as much as possible the scholarship was founded, ZIP and JENSEN were first to propose this with association with Alan at Motaworld (because of his spencer link ). The deal runs over 2 seasons, the first in ZIP with the scholarship branded cars ( colourscheme / TBC ) the second in the Formula Renault championship. Included is a driver training, fitness scheme, drivers scholarship overalls, seat fittings, new tyres, registration fees, in fact everything. The cost for this is divided over the two seasons to aid the driver £65k per year, which is conciderably less than some teams in Formula Ford would charge per season I am sure.

The main aim for this is to offer an alternative to FF, or the new BMW series, and it would provide a stable two year plan for any young driver to really work at their driving in a stable plan without the risk of hidden charges or an un stable formula, the driver engineers will stay with the same driver right through their graduation into Formula Renault to aid in their development and the drivers relationship with the crew.

We believe this can offer a good deal to new drivers moving from karting.

Jensen.

[JR Ewing]

Sound OK Jense but surely nobody in their right mind is going to hand over £65k (plus VAT?) for a year in Zips.

Suppose they are injured, die, want to drop out before year 2?

Suppose you go bust before year 2?

Who gets the interest on my excess money paid in year 1?

[JR Ewing]

Reading it again Mr Lunn, do I agree to pay my £130k and then find out in a year whether I'm with Motaworld or Jensen Motorsports?

With respect, I might want something written into the contract about that...

[Revracing]

Jenson, just how much money do you think people spend in karting? somewhere round the 20k mark when I last looked that leaves a huge shortfall to find and gamble on a first venture into single seaters

[DSM]

Spot on JR and, Jensen in my opinion there is little weight behind the implication that it is somehow easier to go into FR from FZ than FF or other Formulae.
How would you explain Ben Clucas's form in FR last winter, stepping up from FF or Conway, or, thinking about it most of the top FR runners who seem to have managed without Zip.
Further, I just can't see how a FZ can be anything like good preparation for an FR. no downforce, not a lot of grip and low power. What similarities are there?
I have nothing against anybody trying to make an honest buck from a legitimate business, but why do we have to put up with this constant procession of 'scholarships', 'ladders to success', 'academies' etc, clearly, in my opinion, designed with the sole aim of turning an easy profit by misleading the unwary.

[Jensen]

I feel I should offer detailed replies to your questions.

Firstly, DSM, the step from FR from ZIP has been explained by drivers who have done both and indeed driven FF too, I am not saying it is the only way but they say it is good this way, and as for zip being no preparation because of it's lack of downforce, that is exactly why it is good, it teaches the drivers to tune mechanical grip, the hardest part of setting a car up, with the introduction on wings in Renault year it will make for a rounded driver as he / she can learn mechanical set up in year one and wings and additional ground effect in year two. As for your comments to making an easy profit I can confirm to you on record that this project has been put together to genuinely give the drivers the best chance possible, this season my team has struggled with a budget most if not all the FR teams would have laughed at, we have endured the critism and forum comments by those who know very little about running a team at TOCA level, with these scholarship drives we have taken the experience we have gained this season watching the top teams, and looked at the mandatory costs IE engines, tyres, engineers etc etc to give the drivers things which were impossible this year, 70% of the Scholarship money that JENSEN team would get is to be invested into that drivers car for that season, leaving the 30% to run the team, pay wages etc etc. This is our commitment to getting this scholarship off the ground and giving the drivers a top quality car. This leaves no profit whatsoever for JENSEN racing. Any serious equiries will have all these costings explained in more detail.

Revracing, I have been told that some karters can spend £100k, I have not had much contact with the karting world but it was from a reliable source.

JREWING as for wether its JENSEN racing or Motaworld then that would be down to the driver but I would ask them to look at the prospectus for their Renault year and not the results from this year, I also doubt wether Motaworld will be £130k or invest in the car as much as JENSEN racing. And as for not being able to complee the scholarship due to ill health etc etc they can insure against this which we can aid them with.

In finishing I can see why all the sceptisism and agree there are too many get rich quick team out there, all said and done my team and I work really hard at what we do and we are determined to get to where we want to be, any serious driver joining this scholarship would get a good start and would enjoy how the new properly funded team would work hard for them, if it works I strongly believe we will be very competitive.

Here to help.

jensen.

[No 4]

Jensen - 10 out of 10 for initiative. Hope it works out for Martin and yourself.

One small point, just so Jamie (Morrow) doesn't fall out with his old team boss Richard Dean at JLR, what Jamie said was that he found the transition from ZIP to FR relatively easy. However, he also feels that if he'd been moving from FF to FR, that also would have been relatively easy. After all both ZIP and FF cars have no ground effect capabilites, so no reason why moving to FR from either should be much different.

[TeamJLR]

Still more than one season in Formula Ford though. How about I pay £20/25k for a season of Zip, watch and learn who is the team to be with next year for Renault and offer them £105/110k to do a season? Total £130k

[DSM]

Well, as two of the drivers you've named can hardly be said to be impartial, and one other says the step should be no different, the point of the link between the 2 Formulae is
confirmed as being tenuous, I think.
The costs quoted are little different from normal and the 'benefits' are, I'm sure what any good team would give you. If someone came to you, Jensen, from another Formula would you charge them more or give them less? I don't think so, so what benefit does this 'Scholarship' actually have.
As for 100K in karting, you've been talking to Martin haven't you? I can't think of anybody else who could get close to that spend on 1 driver in a normal campaign.

[STEPHEN VINCE]

IM PUZZLED BY ALL THIS CHAT ABOUT ZIP
HASNT IT STRUGGLED TO GET DRIVERS DESPITE MANY SCHEMES TO TEMPT THEM DOESNT THAT TELL YOU SOEM THING IE IT ISNT WHAT DRIVERS WANT TO DO!!!! NO SLICKS WINGS THAT DONT WORK NEXT TO NO SCOPE TO SET UP CAR WHAT IS AN EXPERIANCED KARTER WHO HAS USED SLICKS FOR YEARS GOING TO LEARN EXACTLY?

[fantasytoca]

Does your keyboard have a Caps Lock key - press it - you'll be amazed at what happens. TYPING ALL IN CAPITAL LETTERS IS DIFFICULT TO READ AND CONSIDERED TO BE SHOUTING!

[JR Ewing]

Jensen, 10 out of 10 for coming on here and responding to comments. Respect from ole JR.

[Mr Jinxx]

I suspect that neither Zip nor FF are great preparation for FRenault. At least, not for running at the fromt of the grid. You can chuck a FF or a Zip around, like Alex Lloyd used to, like Mike Spencer does, and be last on the brakes and barrel into corners and just sort it out at the apex, and you still get away with it. Looks good too. But you try that in a well set up FR or in F3, and you'll not be starting at the front. You have to be smooth and consistent/accurate. Not sure Zip or FF teach you this or punish you enough if you aren't.

On the other hand, if you race karts in Europe, where they use much stickier tyres, you need to be smooth there too. In the UK, you can chuck a kart around on its hard (good value) tyres and wet drizzly kart tracks, just like Zip or FF, and still get good results, more rally-like in a way, but it doesn't teach you anything like as much as European racing teaches you about being smooth and accurate. If you try and throw a sticky European kart around, you get blisters on your hands within 20 minutes, ask any karter!

The only thing that UK karting and Zip and FF really teach you is how to compete. How to race. How to overtake etc. They won't teach you how to be quick in higher formulae - exactly the opposite in fact - you have to unlearn them when you get to FR or F3.

[Revracing]

Sorry Mr Jinxx I have to disagree, I am someone who has raced both hard low grip tyres and the super grippy qualifying tyre that you get in the world karting champs, and before you think it I was very competitive and have won a british championship in the sport. From my experience you've got it flipped around, to drive low grip tyres you have to be very smooth and mm perfect otherwise you spend too much time going sideways and wasting rpm. High grip allows you to be very slap dash and barrell into the apex as you described earlier and still get away with it because you can set the kart up for it..... However I do agree that the lasted breed of young karters are all tought to throw their karts around and rely on engine power and grip to sort it out, this ends up with a bunch of nomb nuts who knock each other off because they don't appreciate how to perform a clean overtaking manouvre......


Rant over now....

[jamescrofts]

Originally posted by JR Ewing
Reading it again Mr Lunn, do I agree to pay my £130k and then find out in a year whether I'm with Motaworld or Jensen Motorsports?

With respect, I might want something written into the contract about that...

Motaworld or Jensen? Believe you me there is a world of difference. Has anyone thought about John Welch's team; Dan drove a fantastic race at Oulton.

[Mackmot]

I agree with Revracing, what you have said there Jinxx is exactly what most Renault teams tell racing dads.

I'd also add that FF has one major advatage over all other champs, development. It is vital for drivers to learn to develop their cars and set ups. I keep hearing people saying that they do this in F3 but wouldnt you prefer to spend 100K learning this in FF rather than 400k in F3.

[jamescrofts]

http://www.mst-group.co.uk/singleses...nd=round09.gif

[Jensen]

Originally posted by jamescrofts
Motaworld or Jensen? Believe you me there is a world of difference. Has anyone thought about John Welch's team; Dan drove a fantastic race at Oulton.

I agree, it's called money. Give JMS a Motaworld budget and we too would be competitive. How are things going with Mark Johnstone (exchange and mart F1 winner)?, you said he may come to Renault next season, just wondered if this was still the case as you say he would be much quicker than Lewis Hamilton so it should be good to watch.

jensen.

[jamescrofts]

Mark continues to make good pace in the TVR Tuscan (competitive on very small budget!) He will start testing single seaters soon. Just watch this space! Neil Purdie will also be in single seaaters. Stratton MacKay finished 5th out 21 at Rockingham in the Ginettas.

Jensen, if you need my help getting your cars up the correct end of the grid. Give me a call.

James

[Mr Jinxx]

If you have to be smooth on low grip surfaces, and can chuck it around on sticky tyres, then how come you don't see the world karting champions chucking their karts around, nor Messrs Schumacher, etc?

Yet with really low grip situations, Messrs Burns and McRae barrel into corners just that little bit more.

I'm not saying they aren't smooth - smooth is always better - just that I can't see how it punishes you MORE on loose/low-grip surface/set-up. Low grip is surely far more forgiving of tiny errors, whereas high grip (like F1) must need much more accuracy from the jockey to get the ultimate from his/her steed?

[Mackmot]

Yes I agree with that Jinxx but in FR its about using the aero thats why you have to be smooth. FF teaches you to use the mechanical grip smoothly and it may surprise you but this is more important in F3 than aero grip. This is why the Lola is not doing so well.