Black/ Yellow in the bin

[Barny]

Originally posted by Bob Pearson
You're dead right Jim, none of this would be necessary if yellows were adhered to. While drivers are allowed to get away with yellow infringements there will always be a need for some other way of protecting you. I have said it a million times, the solution is in the hands of the C of C.

As a driver I am appalled by the complete disregard for the yellow flag and the the black/yellow by my fellow competitors, and there disregard for the saftey of officials.
But why do the CoC ignore transgressors?.

[JimW]

While I do agree with my marshalling colleagues above that observers must write appropriate reports, I am far more concerned about the number of clerks who take no or little action on reports.

Some, not all, are too concerned not to upset drivers. To be fair look at the howls of unhappiness which get reported and listened to when drivers are penalised. Most clerks are volunteers and how would you feel about the stress and the late evenings and further correspondence! But one or two are notorious for not taking these things seriously.

I don't go as far as Bob Pearson because I recognise a need to temper the punishment according to the circumstances. (see http://tentenths.com/forum/showthrea...threadid=42437 for a fuller debate on that point ) but I do think that every report should result in a trip to see the CoC. If found proven, then an endorsement should result.

There are always the stewards to reconsider things if the driver really feels aggrieved.

Regards

Jim

[Chigley]

One problem with the B/Y which hasn't been discussed is once displayed and a queue formed up properly (haha) the drivers then still have the uncertainty of not knowing when the B/Y period is going to end, so each lap there is a dash to line in the hope of seeing the green flag. Needless to say this is a recipe for collisions and disaster with the front runners having backed off again when no green flag is displayed but the mid field and back markers are still dashing for the line.

A suggestion: The B/Y should be waved slowly and when the situation is right the startline goes to a stationary B/Y which then goes forward in front of the field so all competitors know that a green flag will be displayed at the startline and racing can resume.

[Mark Mitchell]

Originally posted by JimW
...but I do think that every report should result in a trip to see the CoC. If found proven, then an endorsement should result...

Having spent half a day in Race Control earlier this season, I found out that the Clerk of the Course might not even get to SEE a report, never mind act upon it!
The Chief Observer collects the reports from around the circuit and then uses his judgement on whether to bring it to the attention of the Clerk.

I'm not suggesting for one minute that reports of flag infringements would not be shown to the CoC or that all clubs work in this way.

I know that some observers do a "Written" for everything and as such, a report for a car with (for exaxmple) a headlight hanging out, would normally have been reported verbally during the session and would have been acted on accordingly, therefore no real need to alert the CoC to this!

[Asp]

Originally posted by Chigley
A suggestion: The B/Y should be waved slowly and when the situation is right the startline goes to a stationary B/Y which then goes forward in front of the field so all competitors know that a green flag will be displayed at the startline and racing can resume.

I agree with the idea in theory - however, it would result in an extra lap at slow speeds, eating into race time or distance. However, some form of signal could be shown at a designated flag post (once informed by race control) a few spots before the line?

[Woolley]

observer, your post is the reason I've become a supporter of the landline system, then everyone knows what has been reported, that it has been reported, and whether they can add anything useful. The clerk then has all the information he needs to make an instant decision.

[neilwaynesmith]

Sorry for (sort of) hi-jacking the thread, but yesterday during the Sports 2000 race at Donington, the B/Y came out and everyone responded to it except the leader who, by the time it was withdrawn had something like a 13 second lead.

At the post race interview, he seemed to think it all a bit of a joke while the 2nd place guy who had slowed the field down announced he was off to see the clerk of the course.

Does anyone know if any action was taken?

[neilwaynesmith]

Answered my own question courtesy of http://www.mst-group.co.uk/result.as...tdonington.gif

Bad guy was given a 14 second penalty to demote him to 2nd place.

[FilW]

Originally posted by Asp
I agree with the idea in theory - however, it would result in an extra lap at slow speeds, eating into race time or distance. However, some form of signal could be shown at a designated flag post (once informed by race control) a few spots before the line?

I got caught out by the lack of warning that the green flag was coming at Mallory and by the time I realised the guys in front had gone. If that's the way it works then I'm glad it's going!

[graeme]

One problem with the black/yellow flag was it was poorly explained. I went to a briefing earlier this year where the CoC said that all cars must slow down to 50mph if it was shown. I questioned him on this and he was adiment that all cars must slow to this speed. When I suggested that the cars would never form a queue if they did the same speed, he said that may be the ones at the back should go a little faster!

[Chigley]

Graeme can you give us a clue as to which circuit this was at? Sounds like a CoC needs to get out and about a bit more.

[graeme]

Its first is a precious metal; its second is a small rock - enough of a clue? It was a clubbie meeting with a series I don't normally race with, but was a chance to race on the International circuit (doh - that's probably given it away).

[73_Gstock]

Question from across the pond:
What is the black/yellow flag? Is it similar to the surface flag? (striped)

We had a similar situation at an SCCA club event a few weeks ago. There was a major shunt after a blind corner at Mid-Ohio. We had no safety car driver, so no safety car (it was in the last session of the day). The course went double yellow, the leader took control, the field caught up, we got it cleaned up, racing resumed. I do not know if the starter displayed a one to go signal or not, though.

[JimW]

What is the black/yellow flag? Is it similar to the surface flag? (striped)

No, we have those (commonly referred to over here as the oil flag).

The b/y tells the leader to slow down and act as a "safety car". Other cars have to line up behind until a green is shown.

Regards

Jim

[73_Gstock]

Is it one flag that is black and yellow? What is the pattern?
or do you display both the black and the yellow?

[Adam43]

A single black and yellow quartered flag. Shown here in a pretty chaotic scene along with a regular yellow (at Anglesey I believe)



from http://www.brsccnw.com/marshalling2.htm

[73_Gstock]

ah, thank you. We don't have it over here, don't think we need it really. Putting out double yellow seems to do the trick.

[Woolley]

Not a bad idea...?

[Dutch chap]

This is annoying! Just wrote a contribution to this thread, took to much time (hey I’m Dutch, I think in Dutch, I have to translate it and I’m far from fluent) and found out that I got logged out when I sent the reply. I should have been in bed by now, but will nevertheless give it a second try.

Suggestion to all: Write your reply in Word (or whatever) , C/P and then send it.

On the second try you’re never as brilliant as on the first attempt, but here we go again, a lot shorter then the original:

In Holland we (at least those that do this, I never marshal it for various reasons) have a thing called “basic racing”. I’m not going in to what my thoughts about it are, but I must say they have a good thing, which is the “purple flag” (not kidding) aka “code 60”. When this flag is displayed (at all posts, on order by radio to the posts) the drivers are not permitted to go any faster than 60 km. The 60 km lap time is known (they timed it) so no one gets of the hook. The leader(s) keeps his (their) advantage, marshals know thy can work save() and everyone is happy. No confusion with the drivers, 60 is the limit as the flag shows. If it works in Holland, why wouldn’t it in Britain?