BMMC...What do you want from the club?

[Stephen Green]

This is exactly why I started the thread! Some very good points to pass on.

I agree that Julians site is very good but maybe that should be adopted by the BMMC on their website to include the suggestions you have made?

[Mark Mitchell]

When I make a comment on how poor the BMMC website is, all I hear is that it is being worked on and will be updated soon. But it never is!!
The BMMC Website should be the first place that both potential and exsisting marshals should look to for information on topics like "How to become a Marshal" to volunteering forms like those on Julians site. We should be able to order overalls etc on-line, renew membership, download newsletters etc.
I'm not conversant with HTML and the gubbins that goes into writing web pages or I would have offered some help to the Club with this - but there must be someone who IS.

[Stephen Green]

A very valid point Mark. As I said in the intro, this thread will be passed to the guys at the BMMC and I think your point is not only very valid but one I would echo myself. At least we are getting some constructive criticism.

[Mark Mitchell]

The website address features heavily on most BMMC forms of advertising.....stickers etc and is on the backs of our overalls and on the shirts of the guys that run the stand at the ASI Show.
Therefore we must have the site completely revamped and regularly updated to warrant us promoting it!

[Tango n Crash]

As another 'returning' marshall I can agree with many of the previous comments. The upgrading process is confusing. I am reasonably able to carry out many post functions and have frequently been required(asked) to do so. It's the age old signatures that are the real problem. I'm told that I should have pursued these even when no black X was available on post, or adjacent posts as the work done warranted it. I don't believe in pushing for these things, but I know others, of lesser capablity who have done exactly this and achieved upgrades. This needs sorting, not necessarily easier, but more consistent and applicable to all.

[Stevespurr]

It would be nice to have a input into the planning of meetings so that the dont all clash and we are thin on the ground for marshals or meetings have to be cancelled through lack of marshals.

[MacGWC]

I would like to answer some of the points made by Beardy359 and Woolley.

If Beardy359 has been an active marshal during the past 20+ years, he will already have benefited greatly from Marshals’ Club influence. The Training and Grading Scheme used by the MSA and all major race organising clubs originated with the BMMC. The vast majority of current marshals’ training is still developed and run by Marshals’ Club instructors and we are already preparing to re-write the scheme if we have to adopt alternative marshalling methods in place of the required number of marshals on the bank.

On personal accident insurance, it was Tony Beadle of BRSCC and I who continually lobbied at the MSA to keep insured levels reasonably current. I was invited to join the negotiating team when the MSA changed Brokers, which resulted in greatly enhanced benefits coverage and a weekly benefit in line with the average weekly wage. The Marshals’ Club has frequently helped members with individual claims. In addition to all this, the Marshals’ Club own personal accident insurance covers much wider areas of risk and is not means-tested, allowing many injured members to benefit even though they were not current wage earners.

In terms of influence on the sport as a whole, it would take too much space to list the achievements over the past 20+ years of those who have represented Marshals’ Club interests at the MSA. John Felix, Dave Pierre, Jeremy Edwards, Bob Rae, Mike Farnworth, John Cordery to name but a few, have all fought our corner on various committees.

Granted, we are having some difficulty being heard in the present debate about paid marshals, etc but do not for one minute think that stops us trying! Our list of circuit improvements includes all the items on Woolley’s list and we continue to push for this to be adopted by the circuit owners as a minimum cost exercise as part of normal maintenance routines over the next season or two.

Above all, we will always press for better consideration and respect for volunteer marshals’ contribution to our sport and it is a source of great satisfaction to all who currently represent marshalling interests how well the smaller organising clubs have rallied to our cause. They have responded magnificently and this gives us great confidence to continue our efforts to similarly impress the majors.

I would rather someone else answered the various views on upgrading, etc but can tell you that the BMMC recently centralised its membership services, just as we did with accounting some years ago, to improve the service to members. Remember, too, that we are all volunteers and most have “real” jobs that have to take precedence over Marshals’ Club work from time to time. Come on board or stay on board with us and let the Marshals’ Club be the “One Voice” for all marshals someone else on this site suggested earlier.

Finally, if Beardy359 now feels he may have been free-loading over the years, the (Scottish!) Treasurer of BMMC will gladly accept a donation towards training costs with his application for membership!

[Stephen Green]

Well said George.

I think the main point here is that if we all become or maintain our membership of the BMMC, it in itself becomes a better tool with which to lobby the organising clubs and circuit owners.

[Beardy359]

Originally posted by MacGWC


If Beardy359 has been an active marshal during the past 20+ years, he will already have benefited greatly from Marshals’ Club influence.

I have been an active marshal, but in all honesty I haven't noticed this influence.Perhaps you should advertise it.

The Training and Grading Scheme used by the MSA and all major race organising clubs originated with the BMMC. The vast majority of current marshals’ training is still developed and run by Marshals’ Club instructors and we are already preparing to re-write the scheme if we have to adopt alternative marshalling methods in place of the required number of marshals on the bank.

I normally train with BARC at Thruxton. If there is a BMMC input to this then again I am unaware of it. I am not argueing against the BMMC, I only make the point that they are not SEEN to be doing what they were set up to do. Doing good by stealth will not win you members.

On personal accident insurance, it was Tony Beadle of BRSCC and I who continually lobbied at the MSA to keep insured levels reasonably current. I was invited to join the negotiating team when the MSA changed Brokers, which resulted in greatly enhanced benefits coverage and a weekly benefit in line with the average weekly wage. The Marshals’ Club has frequently helped members with individual claims. In addition to all this, the Marshals’ Club own personal accident insurance covers much wider areas of risk and is not means-tested, allowing many injured members to benefit even though they were not current wage earners.

About the only advantage I have ever seen to membership of the BMMC is indeed their excellent insurance scheme. In my personal cicumstances it is not enough in itself to tempt me.

In terms of influence on the sport as a whole, it would take too much space to list the achievements over the past 20+ years of those who have represented Marshals’ Club interests at the MSA. John Felix, Dave Pierre, Jeremy Edwards, Bob Rae, Mike Farnworth, John Cordery to name but a few, have all fought our corner on various committees.

This may indeed be true, but no more than many I could list have done who aren't members. Again I am not seeking to denigrate what has been achieved by anyone, but the original question was what did I want from the club.If they are doing more than anyone else, then tell us.

Granted, we are having some difficulty being heard in the present debate about paid marshals, etc but do not for one minute think that stops us trying! Our list of circuit improvements includes all the items on Woolley’s list and we continue to push for this to be adopted by the circuit owners as a minimum cost exercise as part of normal maintenance routines over the next season or two.

Well I don't know where these improvements are happening, certainly not much where I marshal, but if they are a result of your efforts then publicise them.

Above all, we will always press for better consideration and respect for volunteer marshals’ contribution to our sport and it is a source of great satisfaction to all who currently represent marshalling interests how well the smaller organising clubs have rallied to our cause. They have responded magnificently and this gives us great confidence to continue our efforts to similarly impress the majors.

Call me cynical but I suspect that your lack of success with the majors is because like any business they will not spend money if they don't have to - if they don't respond to your pressure it may be because they don't think you have any real power.

Come on board or stay on board with us and let the Marshals’ Club be the “One Voice” for all marshals someone else on this site suggested earlier.

Tell your potential customers what they are getting for their money and they may do, but do make sure your "one voice" is saying what we want to hear, which hasn't allways been the case.

Finally, if Beardy359 now feels he may have been free-loading over the years, the (Scottish!) Treasurer of BMMC will gladly accept a donation towards training costs with his application for membership!

I have never in my life been a free loader, and I find a remark like that from someone who doesn't even know me highly offensive. I have responded to a request to to say what I want from the BMMC. You may not like my answers, but at least have the decency to discuss them without resorting to insults.

[Stephen Green]

Beardy I think Georges last comment to you was made in gest and with a certain amount of 'tongue in cheak' and certainly not intended to offend you.

[Woolley]

George, thanks for your input once again. Might it possible to have some sort of reporting system where a problem is spotted? It's obviously very difficult to spot every little issue without a very careful examination. The report form for the circuit (where such exists) is handed in at the start of the day, before any minor problems are spotted. Perhaps there could be an e-mail contact desognated for such things?

[Julian]

Hi Stephen & all,

I am more than willing to put the BRSCC SE volunteering form on the web site! All you need to do (along with anyone else who wants to see other forms) is to get the Chief Marshal to send me details.
I will only put on the site forms the the respective Club/Chief Marshal requests - there are those that are very happy using their tried and trusted system or cannot handle e-mailed volunteering. I am in no way trying to impose this on anyone, I am just trying to provide a service for those that want to use it.

I have made some attempts at a general volunteering form, but this soon gets out of hand with the volume of options possible - type of event/location/club/duty! If anyone has any ideas of a practical and easy to use format, please let me know!

Regards,
Julian

[Stephen Green]

Many thanks Julian I will pass your message on to the relevant people.

[Mark Mitchell]

I agree with Beardy's above comments that the BMMC haven't infuenced him over the years......'cause if they had he would know what a sense of humour was!(Or what BMMC Marshals' sense of humour is!)
George hasn't got an offensive nature and I agree that his comments were meant to be TIC

[MacGWC]

To Beardy359 - No offence meant - but I'll still take the donation!!!

To Woolley - The idea of the Marshals' Club being a central conduit through which marshalling issues could be funnelled (in both directions!) formed part of our original submission on the future of race marshalling first presented four years ago and remains part of our proposals right now.

[Beardy359]

I took the trouble to contribute to this topic because I thought it might be usefull to offer an outsiders view. That my contribution was singled out for comment was presumably because it was viewed as a negative one - this was not my intention.

As someone who is not a member the question must be - have you convinced me to join? The answer is still no - I am not convinced that you are achieving your goals, and don't believe that you will.

Finally, MacGW, if no offence was meant I apologise, but remember that in a text based medium an insult (like beauty) is in the eye of the beholder!

[JimW]

Don't worry Beardy, all of us have been confusing George's normal style of response with a nuclear attack for years.

And we still remain friends.

Regards

Jim

[MacGWC]

Originally posted by JimW
Don't worry Beardy, all of us have been confusing George's normal style of response with a nuclear attack for years.

And we still remain friends.

Regards

Jim

See you, Jimmy..... kin yer mither sew?

[Alpha Charlie 6]

The BMRMC some years ago was the only driving force/ reasonable club for any self respecting marshal to join.

The likes of the racing clubs were still run by the Blue Blazer Brigade and looked upon marshals only as a necessary evil...

The BMRMC was responsible for the training and grading of marshals and developed a scheme that was universally second to none.

Naturally it was not long before someone sold this scheme down the line to the MSA. ( Is it true that the MSA can no longer AFFORD TO ADMINISTER THIS SCHEME?)

When the scheme ceased to be the perogative of the BMRMC the club started to degenerate. Of course there were other reasons.. mainly the fact that marshals were a lazy lot who wanted to be looked after..but were not prepared to put the effort in themselves and become committee members.

This of course left the way open to the type of self-opinionated, and frequently self-centred people who just bask in having some power. Having said that, there were a minority of very hard working individuals who endeavoured to run the BMRMC by the rules .. and for the total benefit of the members... unfortunately in the main they did not seem to last long in office.

AND THEN CAME THE BMMC.. talk about suffering from the malady of changing a name for changes sake, but not changing the format of the organisation!



IS IT NOW THE TIME FOR SOMEONE TO BITE THE BULLET AND BRING MARSHALLING INTO THE 21ST CENTURY BY MAKING THE ORGANISING CLUBS PUT OUT TO TENDER THEIR REQUIRMENTS FOR MARSHALS AT EACH OF THEIR MEETINGS ... AND FOR THESE CLUBS TO PAY A REASONABLE RATE .. IF ONLY SUFFICIENT TO COVER MARSHALS TRAVELLING EXPENSES.

[Dave Brand]

Originally posted by Alpha Charlie 6
AND THEN CAME THE BMMC.. talk about suffering from the malady of changing a name for changes sake, but not changing the format of the organisation!

That's not really fair comment, is it? The name was changed from British Motor Racing Marshals Club so that it more accurately reflected the club's activities.

[Stephen Green]

We have discussed paying marshals at length in other forums and so it seems a little senseless to start over again here. However, Dave makes a very valid point regarding the change of name for the club and let us not forget that the members were asked what they wanted the club to be known as. Personally I think BMMC better reflects the aims and purpose of the club and should increase those who feel they can joing because it is a club that reflects all aspects of marshalling.

[Tony_J]

Within the bounds of what a group of volunteers can achieve I believe the BMMC has the best of it. Until a few years ago I also belong to BARC, BRSCC, BRDC & the Scottish Motorsport Marshals Club as well as the BMMC. The first three provided me with very little as a marshal. They are essentially there for the competitors - nothing wrong with that, who pay significant fees that also fund paid senior full time officials. For my £22.00 per year I received basically nothing. At least the BMMC is exactly what it purports to be, an organisation for marshals & marshals alone so it doesn't have any other axe to grind, split loyalties etc.

[johnw]

Originally posted by Alpha Charlie 6
( Is it true that the MSA can no longer AFFORD TO ADMINISTER THIS SCHEME?)

I am told that have about £8 million in the coffers, so presumably they could afford it.
John

[Mark Mitchell]

Originally posted by Dave Brand
That's not really fair comment, is it? The name was changed from British Motor Racing Marshals Club so that it more accurately reflected the club's activities.

If that's so Dave, then why does the BRMC still exsist?
Surely Rallying comes under the umbrella of MOTORSPORT?

[Alpha Charlie 6]

Someone said that the BMMC's ideas appeared to be disregarded and that they got no where when having negotiations .. Perhaps this shows that something needs ot happen whitin the BMMC .. perhaps by changing those who negotiate.

I am certain that my memory does not fail me when I say that I can well recall that one of the mentioned negotiators offered to take a very mild ( & almost a ) gentleman outside from a BMRMC Council meeting and show him the ' gentle arts ' of pugilism ...just because the fore mentioned could not get his own way !!

History is said to repeat itself ..

.. on that basis is it any wonder that the now BMMC get nowhere?