Jos& Jordan : its over and out (or maybe not) Pantano!

[GTRMagic]

So will we see Jos putting tacks or oil on the road so a driver goes off and he can step into the breach??

[Bridget Stone]

Thats a bit sarcastic. What i meant to say was that he will be available if for some reason or another there are mid-season vacancies. I didn't mean Jos will be actively organizing those vacancies ;-)
But i can imagine for example , given Jaguars track record, that they will be sacking Klien and maybe Verstappen may be one of the drivers who can step in.

But i admit these are just thoughts of a bit dissapointed Jos-fan

love, bridget

[Wrex]

I only have one wish - that this really is the end. I'm sick of these fools and the "its on again, off again" BS. They would have to be the biggest bunch of amateurs I have ever had the misfortune of seeing.

I cant say I thought much of Jos before hand, but letting these clowns negotiate for him was just foolish. I'm so glad Eddie did'nt fold to this garbage.

Goodbye Trust, I know I will never hand any money over in your direction.

As fo the dutch fans, I do feel for you. We Aussies have had some dry years, but I'm sure a driver with more talent than money is on his way and will do you proud.

[DriverT]

They sound like such idiots they could be football agents! They certainly haven't done Jos many favours have they?

[BertMk2]

Originally posted by Wrex
Goodbye Trust, I know I will never hand any money over in your direction.

Same here, Trust really have done themselves no favours at all, the way they have conducted themselves throughout this has been atrocious. Full marks for loyalty but no marks for anything else.

[Bridget Stone]

Originally posted by Wrex
I

As fo the dutch fans, I do feel for you. We Aussies have had some dry years, but I'm sure a driver with more talent than money is on his way and will do you proud.

Thanks Wrex. But with only 20 cars running at the moment and an "overkill" of Germans and Brazilians the chances for such a small country to have another f-1 driver seem pretty remote at the moment.

love, bridget

[ASCII Man]

Germans and Brazilians have good infastructure in their countries where young gifted drivers can go up the ranks with the support and guidance they need.

We don't have that here and that's why you don't see that many talented Dutch/Belgian drivers.

Well, that's what i think of it anyway.

[Bridget Stone]

Originally posted by ASCII Man
Germans and Brazilians have good infastructure in their countries where young gifted drivers can go up the ranks with the support and guidance they need.

We don't have that here and that's why you don't see that many talented Dutch/Belgian drivers.

Well, that's what i think of it anyway.

Good point ASCII.I think its about time we start to build such an infrastructure. Maybe the money from Trust can be put in a sort of foundation to promote young drivers from the Benelux-countries: Bas Leinders and Giedo van der Garde spring to mind in that respect. But when i read that Bas had to pay 300.000 euro for a testdrive with Jordan, the Trustmoney will have soon dried up.

love, bridget

[BootsOntheSide]

Trust have actually done a lot for Jos - without them he wouldn't've got the Minardi drive, and perhaps not the Arrows one. For all their organisational flaws, they put the money up.

I'm pleased that Jos is gone, because he's not especially fast, doesn't come across as a particualrly likable guy, and Jordan don't appear desperate for his funding. Extra B&H support for hiring a British guy seems possible, and Pantano can bring money, talent and potential.

[Peter Mallett]

Originally posted by GTRMagic
So will we see Jos putting tacks or oil on the road so a driver goes off and he can step into the breach??

Note to Stephen Green,

Be prepared to tackle a raving Dutchman trying to cross the track at Copse wearing nothing but black speedo's and boxing gloves.

[Knowlesy]

So Jos is gone...........although he says he may get a drive by the end of the season.

Can't say I'm devastated in all honesty.

[Peter Mallett]

Well in the past season we've lost some important drivers, Hienz Harold, er, hmmm, er, nope, can't think of any others.

[Korr]

8 seasons, 107 starts, 2 podiums, 7 points finishes and 17 points.

I hope he is gone, and stays gone.

[steve nielsen]

Originally posted by Korr
8 seasons, 107 starts, 2 podiums, 7 points finishes and 17 points.

I hope he is gone, and stays gone.

you are forgetting more than 40 DNF's because of technical failures.

[Casseopeia]

Originally posted by jj2728
anyone hear about the possibility of giorgio pantano getting the jordan seat?...

Yes, I did. He seems to be the one for Eddie, although maybe B&H will be disappointed at an Italian landing the seat.

[Don K]

Originally posted by Testure
What, again?! I'll believe it when somebody from Jordan says so. Why on earth can't the Verstappen/Trust camp keep their collective mouths shut? Every other day for the past month we've heard them blabbing to the media about negotiations being on-again, off-again, on-again, off-again... Arrgghh!

To me it sounds more like Verstappen/Trust stopping the negotiations, Jordan opening them again, and Verstappen/Trust stopping them again.


With Verstappen out of the way, there's no need anymore for Benson and Hedges to outbid Trust, so that might put some pressure onto Jordan (unless Glock's sponsors really can offer $12m...).

So I'm not really sure whether Jordan wanted Jos to drive for them... Maybe they just wanted to force Benson and Hedges to pay more ... Which might have forced Timo Glocks sponsors to pay a fair amount of money for just a test seat (to outbid Firman, for instance).


I think Jos is one of more than a dozen drivers who "deserve" to get another chance in F1. But there simply aren't enough seats to give every one of them a chance.

So I can live with Verstappen and McNish not getting a seat (the are too old, and haven't shown enough to "deserve" the second chance more than the other left-out-drivers "deserve" a second chance.

At the moment we have first-class drivers like Salo and Frentzen without a seat. Drivers have shown they are competetive when driving in a top team.
So IMHO no driver who has never had a seat at a top team can claim that they have a "right" to get a seat in a top team, even if they're as good and talented as Webber.
And drivers who only had mediocre results as a rookie in a top team (like Verstappen and Button) can't claim they have a "right" to get another shot. (Though I think Button has shown this year that he really deserves to be in F1).

At the moment, results are not very important in F1.
Top drivers like Ralf and David, who are winning races year after year, are about to loose their seats.
So why would we complain about lesser drivers losing their seats?

Verstappen has had one chance in 1994. And he wasn't quite good enough (slightly better than Lehto and Herbert that year, but absolutely no competition for Michael Schumacher).
After that, he had some decent seasons in bad cars, and he missed some seasons. This is where he missed his chances; He should have found some decent sponsors in those years.
And now he finally found some sponsors, but it's too late. They b(r)ought him just one more year at Minardi.

Jos is by far the greatest F1 driver we have ever had in the Netherlands.
Let's be satisfied with that.

[Dutch chap]

Jos is by far the greatest F1 driver we have ever had in the Netherlands.
Let's be satisfied with that.

In the last decade he was our (=Dutch) only F1 driver. But please don't underestimate Carel or Jan (to young to have seen Carel, but I did see Jan, even in the Simca far before his F1 period)

[steve nielsen]

but Carel Godin de Beaufort and Jan Lammers never came close to 108 GP's, 2 podiums and 17 points.

[steve nielsen]

Jan Flinterman 1952 Starts-1 Points-0
Dries van der Lof 1952 Starts-1 Points-0
Carel Godin de Beafort 1957-1964 Starts-28 Points-4
Ben Pon 1962 Starts-1 Points-0
Gijs van Lennep 1971-1975 Starts-8 Points-2
Roelof Wunderink 1975 Starts-3 Points-0
Boy Hayje 1976-1977 Starts-3 Points-0
Michel Bleekemolen 1977 1 0
Jan Lammers 1979-1992 Starts-23 Points-0
Huub Rothengatter 1984-1986 Starts-26 Points-0
Jos Verstappen 1994-2003 Starts-108 Points-17

[Knowlesy]

Will the next Dutch wannabe please stand up.

[steve nielsen]

already on his way!

www.giedovandergarde.com

Giedo was discovered by Jos, world champion karting in 2002 in Jos's team, drove Dutch Formula Renault in 2003(3rd in the championship in a field with more experienced drivers), and has now been taken on in the Renault driver development program, he will drive the F3 Euroseries for Signature-Renault in 2004.

[Knowlesy]

Here's hoping he's a good one!

[El_Gibleto]

On a points per start ratio De Beafort scored points at a similar rate than "jos the dros", however I'm sure he wasn't involved in assulting people or deliberately making derogatory comments about the teams he drove for.

It would be good to see some of tthe dutch companies who have wasted their money backing Verstappen giving their support to one the the talented young dutch drivers eg Stefan De Groot or Robert Doornbos. Both of whom may developinto drivers genuinely worthy of an F1 seat with proper backing.

[Mr V]

Originally posted by steve nielsen
No, they where on the car at wednesdays presentation.

What presentation was that Steve?

Funnily enough, people i know were in the Jordan factory on Wednesday and there weren't any stickers on the car at all.

[Wrex]

Steve, you can quote those stats all you like (personally I think they do your cause more harm than good), the reality is there are reasons Jos slipped further down the grid while the good drivers went forward.

He's out now (fingers crossed). Time to accept it and move on.