The MSA & Championship Co-ordination

[tazracer]

<LOL> it was hard to resist the Giz a tenner remark...

G

[djinvicta]

Peters never said giz a tenner; everything a Grand! Sorry, Ill answer the PMs from Mr Collins if I knew what they were. Someone please enlighten me..

[djinvicta]

OK got it, no none actually. Peter gets it, and it costs a fortune just in tyres, but I do encourage him!

[avro]

Rod, as far as I am concerned when we paid our subscription in March Cadwell Park was down as a double header for Euro Saloons and has been on the BRSCC calender since then.

But thats not the issue, the point is if my understanding is right the meeting at Brands on the 24th is run by the BRSCC, if correct they must of known that by running this event it put in jepardy their own open saloon race (Euro Saloons) on the Sunday at Cadwell.

It really does not matter which individual organises the event the BRSCC are making a rod for their own backs (no pun intended)

Maybee Rod a few of us ought to organise a stand alone series for Britcar style saloon races but on a sprint format, better still perhaps James Tucker should add this to all of the Britcar meetings, now theres an idea !!!!!!!!!

[avro]

And perhaps we can get djinvicta to sponsor the series !!!!!!!!

[djinvicta]

Youd all be fed up if I did and Pete won it..

[carrera]

djinvicta - Stick to supporting your man, if you go the championship sponsor route the monies are soon eaten up in extra permit costs and fees, although you are guaranteed a winner evry time .

[djinvicta]

Yes thanks; Ive got a very old Saloon Car Series Sponsor Tee shirt!! Been there, done it..

[djinvicta]

Sorry guys; sponsoring is the main man only; PETER THURSTON

[kickstart]

Does anyone know what the MSA have decided to do with undersupported championships ?

[carrera]

Rather than sitting down and putting their heads together to find the root cause of poor grids, they'll accept the fees and call them series.

[soper]

Interesting discussions. I Coordinated the AutoItalia championship and was instrumental in amalgamating it with the road saloons and opening it to multi marques. Whilst the Le Mans Euro's have not been ideal in terms of class structure this year (the regulations of the two championships were already submitted to MSA by the time we put the package together) the philosophy is sound. The BRSCC wanted a nationwide open saloon / sports championship. The departure of John Ward from the BRSCC threw most plans out the window and their present structure seems to be of a caretaker nature which partly explains the lack of foresight in holding similar races on the same day at different circuits. Also they have spare capacity to fill I think. Next year will be tighter, I am sure the BRSCC will take on fewer dates.

Our vision for the Euro championship is to expand it to consist of 20 or 30 minute races, a sort of halfway house between endurance and sprint races. Idealy two races, one for the production modified cars (eg road saloons, super coupes types, group N spec etc) and one for modifieds, thunderloon types, GT's, Ferraris, Tourers etc. Keep it pretty loose, exclude radicals and westfields cos they are too quick and control speed using weight limits where required. As an example of lap times I would expect the former to be capable of up to 55s laps at Brands Indy and the latter 50 to 55s. Three or four classes in each. Pretty much what is in Britcar really.

It makes sense to me to include the super coupes in this, I do not think they will be strong enough to stand alone next year, and also the In Gear series that Rod Birley is involved with. I can't see any point in running two similar championships, and together we are stronger. Which leads me to the old problem of entry fees.

What James Tucker has done with Britcar is indeed impressive but there are a few problems. He is running a business, the entry fees are very high, it may be good value £ per lap however I for one cannot afford £600 + per event in entry fees, and I want to do about 10 or 12 meetings a year, any thing less doesn't really "feed the beast inside". The point is Britcar races with 30 cars are generating £18K (plus the Britsports income), there is a fair bit of profit going to JT, I dont have a problem with this, he's doing a cracking job. But if we did it for ourselves we could plough that profit back into reducing entry fees.

Some championships buy the grid from an organising club, this is probably what JT does and I think the T cars do the same. I believe the price is set at about 16 x standard race entry, so if you wanted to buy a 15 minute / 10 lapper at a normal BRSCC meeting it would be 16 x £165 = £2640. If we as drivers bought that grid and rustled up 30 cars we could charge just £88 entry fee. The BRSCC are happy, they have covered their costs, drivers would be happy with lower race entry fees, spectators will be happy with lots of cars, sponsors will be pleased with the succesful event. This would be self building, word of mouth is the best form of advertising and drivers would have a very positive incentive for pulling friends in to join their championship. So if we could be sure of full grids we could probably run 25 or 30 minute races for the same price as we currently pay for 15 min / 10 lappers.

To do this will require some form of financial guarantees to the organising club to secure the grid slots but I am sure it is possible.

[Rod Birley]

As far as I am aware nobody spoke to Garry Woodcock (Formula Saloons) or the BARC south east centre about these proposals. Although they make sense to a certain degree, without the various clubs and organisers being told or at least consulted how will this work. Unfortunately, "ten-tenths" is not always read by the people in charge, as we well know.

[ss_collins]

sometimes it would help if they did! Harsh mergers and culls are needed immediatley.

[Woolley]

With you all the way on that one, Sam. The sooner the better.

[ActiveMS]

Does make me laugh.
Formula Jedi was only given the 'Series' title this year rather than 'championship' by the MSA, but of course with only 32 on the grid they are dwindling

Someone needs dragging around Brands by their nuts, and I dont mean wheel nuts.

[greenamex2]

The MSA have issued a press release indicating that their championship review is complete and that seven championships have been asked to provide grid size details by end of August.

There are also five new championship under consideration.

Apart from the above there was a lot up beat things are getting better stuff and no detail.

Anybody know who the seven being 'investigated' are?

[Woolley]

Excellent news, that's potentially a net reduction of 2. Make a big defference to the number of meetings and the thinly spread marshalling cover.

Can we suggest that they don't appear to be getting a grip of reality here?

[kickstart]

I think we can guess which championships are under threat:
T cars
BARC F Renault
F3 (only joking)
Not sure about any others. Before anyone moans - this info comes from circuit Driver magazine.

[R59]

BARC F Renault could be swallowed into Monoposto....

Formula Saloons will be canned, and one of the new 5 will be the Super Touring based replacement for Formula Saloons.

I bet that BARC Toyo Tyres Modified Production Saloons will be on the threat list.

Rob.

[ianpearson]

BARC Formula Renault survived the cull by virtues of its improving grids & recognition of the hard work put in by the drivers reps to make the series work & it will work again. It was deemed to have just averaged the number of entries (not the No of starters that you see on MST) required. I believe supersports were given the chop, which is a shame cause they are awesome cars.

[kickstart]

Will supersports run with Sports 2000 duratec ? Do you know what happened to T cars

[Tim Falce]

This is more of a question rather than a statement. If championships are canned, will they not just carry on a challenges? One or two series I am involved in are challenges with (officialy) no points awarded. Killing off championships and carrying them on as challenges realy defeats the object as there will still be to few cars out there for all the series going. Is my line of thinking correct or have I missed the point somewhere?

[JimW]

Originally posted by falcemob
This is more of a question rather than a statement. If championships are canned, will they not just carry on a challenges? One or two series I am involved in are challenges with (officially) no points awarded. Killing off championships and carrying them on as challenges really defeats the object as there will still be to few cars out there for all the series going. Is my line of thinking correct or have I missed the point somewhere?

Seems so correct and obvious to me that I must be missing the subtlety.

Jim

[scoop]

It would be helpful if people didn't speculate on information that has yet to be officially released.
Like many championships at the moment, Supersports is working hard to secure a strong future and the signs are very positive that open-marque sports-racing cars will continue to be part of the UK racing scene.

For the National Supersports Association