Will PROCAR survive?

[scr]

I have to admit, placing konica and the utes on the one round would be a great idea. how good is the racing? You would have two premier racing series going at the same track on the same day. well worth paying the entrance fee.

[pete55]

Now is a good time for CAMS to show whether they have balls and brains. I'm not going to take a bet on either though.

[GTRMagic]

Next weekend at Wakefield Park is still happening... I seriously doubt competitor numbers will be high, but lets see

[Crash Test]

Trying not to blame CAMS/AVESCO/jade monkeys for a moment, what is likely to happen?

For whatever reason, the Procar structure just doesn't seem to be working. Rosco had a crack at it and it didn't work, and Mr Boylan had a good look at the low cost alternative but it wasn't worth it either. Can we assume that there won't be too many punters out there sinking their coin into something, that although we all love, just doesn't work.

Where does everything else go then?

You'd have to say that GT-Performance and V8 Brutes could find a home anywhere they like. APCC is strong but doesn't reakky draw the crowd's attention. F3 could be strong, needs to bounce back. Nations Cup, is still a bit of a basket case- what can they do to make it work? Questions questions questions....

[Robert Ryan]

crash test :Unfortunately Nation's Cup has not fired. GTP needs better parity, Brutes is OK, APCC is a strange formula, does not seem to work.
I remember PROCAR in its infancy running with V8Supercars at Oran Park. People like Jim Richards,Peter Fitzgerald put on some great racing, better than the V8Supercars.
Brutes with the V8Supercars; GTP with some Nations Cup cars to Konica Minolta series. Porsche's to the Premier Series;APCC to Premier series

[pplater]

For Nations cup to work, they need names. They have Brock, they need guys like Ambrose, Lowndes, Bowe, Kelly etc to run if they are to draw a crowd.

Does anyone think that Lowndes wouldn't win GTP races in a BA GT?

[Harves]

Yep, I don't think he would the way they are hamstrung at the moment!

[mitchie]

I wasnt surprised to see the Procar situation mentioned on RPM today, i was surprised though at the lack of bias exhibited. Even more surprised that Bill made mention of Wakefield Park next weekend. Gotta love a free, unexpected plug.

Originally posted by Just Do It!
Would it be unfair to compare the AVESCO/ProCar situation with that of Champcars and IRL in the USA?

Yes. Unlike the IRL, Procar actually has fans . Totally different circumstances involved.

[Just Do It!]

Laugh all you like, Mitchie. I was only trying to help and whilst you may not appreciate that, I am sure that others probably will.

Thanks for the ill sentiment, hope you can get well soon.

[Chucky]

The PROCAR categories migrating to the Konica supports sounds like a great idea. Unfortunately, it will be torpedoed by a certain network long before it gets off the ground. Non of these categories could afford the extortionate or predatory demands C10 make for a few milliseconds of exposure on Trackside. And I dount they will allow them to do their own show elsewhere like Speedweek.

Sigh.

And I dount they will allow them to do their own show elsewhere like Speedweek.

Doesn't seem to be a problem for Commodore Cup!

[mountainstar]

Originally posted by Bigguy
That may well be, but I see real danger in having anything whatsoever to do with AVESCO, which is a huge vacuum cleaner sucking the money out of any alternatives.

It is also a fact of life that the demographic interested in PROCAR-type racing is generally different from the AVESCO followers.. to me, this is a big part of the attraction

I would agree to a certain extent that AVESCO having a monopoly could be a problem and also the demographic for Procar may be different. But has that demographic been able to support procar? It doesn't appear so. Maybe it got too big for it's britches or other factors were involved, but at the end of the day it didn't survive in the marketplace.

[D.R.T.]

I think there is room for Procar in the marketplace. Because despite Avesco's efforts, people are motorsport fans first and foremost Not taxi fans. All we need is to tap into this market and get them to the race track and tuning into tv's.

Remember Procar at Wakefield got 12, 000 people 3 years ago, 10,000 at Oran Park in 2003, 16, 000 at Symmons last year and 41, 000 at Bathurst in 2003. We just need to sustain these crowds.

I think one thing that is showing though, not that its right, is that when Nations Cup is strong, Procar is strong.

[mixxer]

Hopefully something will happen to keep these guys in a sport they love.
Motorsport fans traditionally vote with there feet and coin, unfortunetly production car racing doesnt seem to attract enough people to stand on its own

[Chucky]

Where did the crowds go? As recently as 2002/3 the series could pull quite a race day audience which was one of it's saving graces. Contrast that with the non-attendance figures at OP and EC this year, despite aggressive price slashing on tickets.

Mixxer, to write the whole deal off with that sentence is a bit premature. It did have popular support once upon a time from both competitors and crowds. What the f*%# happened?

[mixxer]

Chucky I have no idea what happened only that it has happened. Ive attended all Procar race's in Victoria for the last 4 yrs and in that time the crowds just got smaller and smaller, funnily enough its about the same time that the mongrel was allowed into NC

[johnh875]

A couple of things, one being the appeal of the Ferrari's, Lambo's etc racing. Even though the Monaro is not dominant in the sprint races, the Bathurst results do not convey that to the wider public (in absence of much other publicity). Also the withdrawal of Jim Richards and John Bowe would be a big factor.

[D.R.T.]

Originally posted by Chucky
Where did the crowds go? As recently as 2002/3 the series could pull quite a race day audience which was one of it's saving graces. Contrast that with the non-attendance figures at OP and EC this year, despite aggressive price slashing on tickets.

Mixxer, to write the whole deal off with that sentence is a bit premature. It did have popular support once upon a time from both competitors and crowds. What the f*%# happened?

2003 was a great year for Procar, in all areas, great racing, great crowds, good tv and good sponsorship involvement in all categories. Then came Lexmark Indy
Round 8 when Procar was shafted in one of the biggest ways possible. Since that weekend its been all down hill for Procar (exception Bathurst 24 hr)

January 2004 and the Championship was shaping up to be one of the biggest years. Interest swelling after the Bathurst 24 Hour I was genuinly excited about the season.

However trouble with management, resulted in late tv announcements, which then caused low numbers in Nations Cup (seen almost as the face of the series) which then resulted in public questioning whether they should attend races. Stability starts within and then spreads to the public. This is what we need.

If we can gain this, get some good and solid Championship promotion I honestly believe, with the current package Procar can take the fight to Avesco and conquer them.

The future awaits.

[Onlooker]

I think if you are planning to conquer AVESCO you are dreaming, but if you wish to co exsist with them then you have a chance, not be a support but just do what you do and let them do what they do, if the product is that good then it will be fine but the competitor base is thin at best and sponors are usually closely aligned with teh driver and are his company.
It is probally pure co-incidence that things started to go ugly after the indy thing and the fact that it is an unsustanable format in it's current form has more to do with it, yep it was great that every one rallied around when the chips were down and the grids swelled at Sandown but they just dropped off,despite what the competitors think,GTP can't pull a crowd on it's own as has been demonstated event after event and NC inspires almost no-one,yep the Monaro brought in a crowd to start with but the competitors left, the show suffed and the crowds went away,now all NC has is a couple of monaro's and a Lambo.
From a competiors point of position, young drivers want to get into V8's and V8 teams are just not interested in the drivers from PROCAR, say what you like but the fact is if a team thought a driver could give them a result at Bathurst they would take them on,but alas Stokel has failed to secure any sort of a drive that is befiting his talent and Sirenson has ended up in the 2nd GRM car that has failed to finish the race more times than it has.
magor shake up is needed and some of those great cars need to be sent back to the nothern hemisphere where they can race on merit.

[mixxer]

There's no denying that the Indy debacle hurt the promoters,sponsors but surely the punter in Queensland doesn't effect the crowd attendances at the other meetings ?

I think the problem lies in the promotion of the whole show, the V8's bombard every form of Media prior to an event (I hardly see or hear anything about Procar) and they dont have to rely on a DELAYED telecast on TV.

PS why do you want to "conquer" AVESCO ?

[racer69]

Originally posted by Onlooker
I think if you are planning to conquer AVESCO you are dreaming, but if you wish to co exsist with them then you have a chance, not be a support but just do what you do and let them do what they do,

A problem being that AVESCO wishes the co-exist with no -one.

Originally posted by Onlooker
alas Stokel has failed to secure any sort of a drive that is befiting his talent and Sirenson has ended up in the 2nd GRM car that has failed to finish the race more times than it has.

Is there any evidence to suggest Stokell has chased a drive in V8s very hard. He is already a professional driver in a factory team fighting for championships.

[GROUPA]

Tipping scheduling races @ Wakefield & Winton in the middle of winter is not going to get many punters along.

Winton was freezing Wakefield will be no better...Sandown has good facilities and in the metro area...it was always going to have good numbers

[Bigguy]

Originally posted by Onlooker
SNIPbut alas Stokell has failed to secure any sort of a drive that is befitting his talent SNIP

To quote from the John West TV ad.. I don't know how he can live with himself... he earns a living racing a Lambo and a works VW R32. I can just see him leaning on the pit wall sighing at his failure to drive a **** pseudo Falcon or Commodore.

I wish I was so unsuccessful

[Chucky]

Yeah, (chuckle, chuckle) life must be tough at the bottom!

Although he does have to put up with FF's mate.

[Onlooker]

As a driver you would hope to race against the best drivers in the best prepared cars i would have thought, maybe I am wrong.
Oh well if he has no interest in driving at Bathurst etc then good on him, I am sure that if he got the call from SBR,HRT, etc then he would be happy to knock it back and say No No i am quite happy where i am thanks for asking.
It is about recognition for your skills in your craft and so if you are a true competitor you want to beat everyone in the country.
Good on him if he is happy,but i wonder why he usually gets a drive,perhaps his phone is off the hook, i wonder if the Lambo will even front in the unlikely event that the 24 hour goes ahead