Caddy LMP...Where is it Now?

[Javi]

It´s a pity. GM has managed to do it well with Pratt& Miller in the GTS corvettes, but the Cadillac effort was a shame. With a little more winter development on the engine they could have challenged Bentley for victory in 2003, the 02 version looked fantastic, although it was said its engine was no match neither in horsepower nor fuel consumption to the audis, so maybe the 03 bentley would have been too big a task... we´ll never know.
One more question (to Mike, I guess) In Mulsanne´s corner 2000 LMP Cadillac page, it says there would be a possibililty of buying customer cars. Did DAMS bought them or they were supplied by GM in order to make a two way works effort?

[MulsanneMike]

I just recived an email correction regarding the # of chassis built (Courtesy Bill Riley, thanks much!). Understand I worked in composites at the time and laid up tubs 1-6. I forgot about tub 7 which I was in the middle of when I left to go to Reynard. So the listing is this:

001 Crash test car/ Show car
002 DAMS Team car #4 Destroyed at lemans in a fire
003 R&S Team car #1
004 R&S Team car #2
005 DAMS Team car #3
006 Spare Team car which was given to DAMS as a replacement for 004
007 New tub delivered to GM at the end of the program

[Tim Northcutt]

Thanks to Mike and to Mr. Riley for this registry of the R&S-built Cadillacs....

First a question, then a related tangent (I'm good at Tangents!)

The Question:

Do we know where any of these reside now?

I'm assuming one of them is in Wayne Taylor's garage, but which of the Cadillac team cars on that list?


Now the Tangent:

In the wake of AutoCon's accident and what looked to be some serious damage to their R&S MkIIIC, a while back we had discussed how many of the Mk IIICs were built, and where they might be....

From our discussion and from many others submitting their thoughts, we came up with the following:

001 -- FIA Crash Test Car

002 -- Dyson, then American Spirit, and finally AutoCon

003 -- Robinson (later dramatically revised)

004 -- Matthews, then to Intersport

005 -- Matthews, then to Intersport

Are these registry numbers matched up correctly?

Were there any more built as show cars that we have not accounted for???

Was the Crash Test Car rebuilt and used as a spare by Dyson or Robinson?

Does Riley Technologies have one in their own collection of chassis they have built?

To Mike:

If you could ask or e-mail Mr. Riley on this, I know of at least one big "R&S fan" who would appreciate it...

Their old site has a very comprehensive listing of the Mk IIIAs and the "2nd generation versions" of it (called by some the Mk IIIB) that were raced in Europe....

But no listing or registry for the MkIIIC....

We never did get a confirmed count...only our own speculation of the ones we could definitely identify as in existence...

Thanks!

[GT1]

I'm not just saying this because Mike runs the site, but I felt that the car itself was a very good car. But you can only do so much with an engine that is underpowered and a budget that isn't what others are spending and you have the wrong set of tires.

Basically, the R&S became the blame in many ways.

[GT-Eins]

Originally posted by MulsanneMike
I just recived an email correction regarding the # of chassis built (Courtesy Bill Riley, thanks much!). Understand I worked in composites at the time and laid up tubs 1-6. I forgot about tub 7 which I was in the middle of when I left to go to Reynard. So the listing is this:

001 Crash test car/ Show car
002 DAMS Team car #4 Destroyed at lemans in a fire
003 R&S Team car #1
004 R&S Team car #2
005 DAMS Team car #3
006 Spare Team car which was given to DAMS as a replacement for 004
007 New tub delivered to GM at the end of the program

Thanks for the infos Mike!
I suppose that beside from the 2 LMP02 that raced there must have been additionally one more for the crash-test. Can somebody confirm this?

[MulsanneMike]

I would guess that there could be as many as 5 LMP02s:

1 crash test chassis
2 race car
3 race car
4 spare
5 spare

They may have built only one spare so it could be as few as 4 with the repaired crash test chassis being the spare, spare...

[GT1]

I still have trouble even looking at the LMP02. Here was GM's big chance to get a real racing reputation around the world. It was their chance to prove the doubters wrong...in the end all that was accomplished was proving them right.

Race less, golf more.

Please leave racing to the professionals.

Not that I have any strong opinions...

[GT-Eins]

Who was the company that constructed the LMP02 for Cadillac and did that group of people do any further efforts into open sportscars?
The LMP02 was a brilliant work - They should set up a successor.

[MulsanneMike]

3GR was the group that designed the LMP02. Not exactly who built it, perhaps 3GR as well (not 100% sure if they had any manufacturing capablity, they could have sub contracted the job out).

Regarding MkIIIC chassis #s:

013 Crash Test #1
001 Robinson
002 Dyson ==> Autocon
003 Crash test #2
004 JMR ==> Intersport
005 JMR ==> Intersport

[Tim Northcutt]

Originally posted by MulsanneMike
3GR was the group that designed the LMP02. Not exactly who built it, perhaps 3GR as well (not 100% sure if they had any manufacturing capablity, they could have sub contracted the job out).

Regarding MkIIIC chassis #s:

013 Crash Test #1
001 Robinson
002 Dyson ==> Autocon
003 Crash test #2
004 JMR ==> Intersport
005 JMR ==> Intersport

Thanks, Mike....I really appreciate it....

[skycafe]

Originally posted by MulsanneMike


Regarding MkIIIC chassis #s:

013 Crash Test #1
001 Robinson
002 Dyson ==> Autocon
003 Crash test #2
004 JMR ==> Intersport
005 JMR ==> Intersport

Why would two chassis have undergone crash testing? Also, is crash testing always totally destructive of chassis, or can they be rebuilt?

[MulsanneMike]

I have a feeling they made a materials change to the crash structure that necessitated a re-testing. Note crash test chassis #1 was chassis '013'. No, the test only allows for a certian amount of deformation, anything beyond that and it fails. Therefore, if you detroy your tub it's your own fault! Yes, tubs often are repaired. The R&S Cadillac's crash test tub required minor repair and ended up as the show car. A little side note. The Cadillac actually failed the first crash test as the shear plate at the back of the monocoque was secured by bolts that only grabbed a few threads (a mistake in assembly). When the test occured the impact caused the bolts to pull the inserts out of the tub and hence it failed the test. So the crash test chassis was brought back to R&S and repaired and then sent back for re-testing with bolts that were properly threaded into the inserts. Of course it passed the test the second time.

[Tim Northcutt]

Chassis 013 was a MkIIIA, wasn't it???

Now I am confused....how could they crash test an MkIIIA as the MkIIIC?

Unless they made substantial changes to the 013 chassis...

Could you explain that one for us, Mike???

[MulsanneMike]

I think 013 was up-numbered to eliminate the less desirable chassis #.

[GT-Eins]

Originally posted by MulsanneMike
3GR was the group that designed the LMP02. Not exactly who built it, perhaps 3GR as well (not 100% sure if they had any manufacturing capablity, they could have sub contracted the job out).
...

Is there any contact (website) of this operation where I could ask?

[tblincoe]

who is 3GR? whoever they are they did a really good job with the car, i was always fascinated how much of a modular design it was... whole parts of the car would just come off if needed, almost as if it was a life-sized LEGO car.

[MulsanneMike]

3GR (3 Guys Racing) was...Nigel Stroud, Wayne Taylor, and Jeff Kettman (or Hazell? Can never remember)

[Tim Northcutt]

Originally posted by MulsanneMike
I think 013 was up-numbered to eliminate the less desirable chassis #.

That would make sense....

But in the MkIIIA registry on www.rileyscott.com the 013 chassis also is listed as an FIA Crash Test chassis....

I'm just trying to make sure that I understand this....

and the way I'm perceiving it is that there was an MkIIIA chassis 013 that may have been crash tested with revisions in materials, etc., PLUS a MkIIIC that they also numbered 013 for the reson you stated above to be crash tested....

Is that correct????

[MulsanneMike]

To my knowledge MkIIIA 013 was crashed tested to meet ACO/FIA requirements. Prior to that there was no requirement in IMSA WSC. 013 was more than likely chosen again to eliminate a less then desirable chassis number. I'm speculating here, but I beleive R&S did the same for the MkIIIC, up numbering 013 to eliminate it right off with the presumption that they would build that many.

[MulsanneMike]

..and 3GR was Stroud, Taylor, and Hazell, not Kettman.

[Tim Northcutt]

Makes perfect sense now...Thanks again, Mike....

[tblincoe]

did they ever design another car? im assuming no...