Who killed F1

[krt917]

I think that's what we'd all prefer, but for me it has to be real and not artificially created, which is something that has been suggested. In relation to the thread, Ferrari shouldn't be blamed for F1's problems because they are so good. They have played a part in it - as have all the teams with the rules wranglings - but domination should not be 'rewarded' with criticism (unless it was achieved unfairly!).

[XJR14/WSC95]

Yet another disapointing rule change for 2004 was the minimum size of engine covers which was designed to give more space for sponsors and all it achieved was to take shap away from the cars and make them all look more alike, just like those rediculous camera wings that stick out like dogs you no whats. If cars cannot all be competitive the can at least be enjoyable to look at.

[Kicking-back]

Who killed F1?

It's not dead - and it's not dying.

[429CJ]

Who killed F1? Marketing department.
Drivers are like clones, giving meaningless, boring interviews, not to irritate anyone or anything. And cars are ugly, too, posing more winglets and flaps and other aero parts like gooses arse. There's no clean lines anymore.

[Rich R]

i think on track things are on the up, off track it is a bit of a mess yes, but i'm sure by the time the teams are lined up on the grid for the start of next season some if not most of the problems will be solved, or is that just blind optimism on my part.

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by 429CJ

Marketing department.

Can you blame them if this is how the rest of the world reacts when someone has a drink: http://tentenths.com/forum/showthread.php?t=62570 or when Rubens says something quite innocent he is "bashing" or "slamming" F1.

[Sodemo]

Surely "money" or "big business" made F1 turn to re-fueling and grooved tyres?

What are we talking about here, actual physical racing, or the politics?

[Raglanparade]

I can picture the episode of South Park featuring Bernie and Max

Bernie "Oh my God, i killed F1"

Max " You ******* "

[RWC]

Definitely max and bernie killed f1
Yes-it is dead.It just hasn't noticed the smell yet

Max killed f1 by NOT making decisions-REAL descisions

Edited for libelous remarks and accusations. ST

[429CJ]

Originally Posted by AdamAshmore

Can you blame them if this is how the rest of the world reacts when someone has a drink: http://tentenths.com/forum/showthread.php?t=62570 or when Rubens says something quite innocent he is "bashing" or "slamming" F1.

Occasionally someone kicks over the shaft, and what kind of controversy that causes? Who's to blame two-faced fans, yellow press, or maybe the marketing people, who make the drivers (or athletes, football players, coaches, the trend is clear) so dull, that everything they do a bit differently is causing a big hullabaloo.

[JGM]

Television and big money killed F1. These twin imposters, thought to be a Good Thing by everyone professionally involved, actually corrupt, corrode, distort and destroy all that's best in any activity. I sometimes think that the best thing that could happen to F1 would be for it to experience complete financial collapse. All the money men, the Suits, the hangers-on, the media co-ordinators, the hospitality centre managers (etc) would bugger off and leave the racers to get on with it - building and racing interesting innovative cars on restricted budgets.

[RWC]

Fair enough ,i guess you had to edit that comment ST.
Though i was just saying what everyone is saying

By the way ,you are wrong.The manufactures did NOT willingly sign the concord agreement
Bernie set his price,max backed him up and told the teams if they didn't like it they could leave f1
This argument has been going on between the teams and bernie/max since the early nineties

[Super Tourer]

Originally Posted by RWC

Fair enough ,i guess you had to edit that comment ST.
Though i was just saying what everyone is saying

By the way ,you are wrong.The manufactures did NOT willingly sign the concord agreement
Bernie set his price,max backed him up and told the teams if they didn't like it they could leave f1
This argument has been going on between the teams and bernie/max since the early nineties

Even in the early 90's, that was still 10 years or more after the original agreement was signed and whichever way we cut it, the CA has delivered wealth to the teams beyond their wildest dreams. There is not a pure race team in the world that makes BIG money on the back of running two solely sponsorship funded cars in a race series. The fact that team bosses in retrospect want more, is only symptomatic of a culture in motorsport generally, that seeks to change the rules after the game has started.

F1 was in a very different financial climate back in the early 80's, there was no structured income for the team apart from sponsors and pay drivers, there was very little factory backing, largely you bought a DFV from Cosworth and went racing. Teams were run by engineeers and technical boffins with little interest or knowledge of the commercial side.

Whether you agree or not, BE galvanised the teams into a single commercial force. The economy of scale of doing joint shipping deals was a simple yet cost effective way to save the teams money, for example. Sure, BE kept the lions share for himself, but then it was his plan and his money that he risked to put F1 on a commerical footing. Without it the teams would never have created the basis for the massive organisations they are today.

The momentum for change has come relatively recently, since the car manufacturers have sniffed out how much money there is in F1 and how they could get their hands on it. Even this is a 'volte face' as car makers traditionally entered F1 to promote their brand or to advance R&D on new technology, they didn't enter F1 for the money, they entered to shift more cars. But, car makers have raised the costs so much that this has dimished the % revenue from the FOM compared to the overall spend, so the bean counters at head office want more. Even if you go back 5 years the FOM package would have been a much more significant element of the teams budget.

So, could a deal like the CA be done again. Not in F1, but in more or less anyother series, yes. If you look down the ladder at GP2, Superfund and F3 teams that are still piecing together funds to complete another year, if you sat them down and offered them 40% of another revenue stream (TV. advertising, merchandising, etc), every team would sign up instantly as it would solve their budget problems at a stroke.

A boss of a GP2 team is in pretty much the same situation as an F1 team boss 25 years ago....

[Kicking-back]

The fact that so many people are discussing it on here rather confirms F1 isn't dead.

[Rennen]

Nobody 'killed F1' that was just one hack's angle on a sport that can't really be compared to other non-equipment lead sports!

Even the accepted brilliance of MS couldn't win in a lesser car (other than one of the top 4 teams cars).

Colin Champman probably 'killed F1' with his genius when without wind tunnels he dreamt up the first 'ground effect' Loti 78 & 79.

In the early 60's when the accepted chassis technology was welded tubing...the brilliance of his driver Jim Clark was further assisted with Champmans monoque chassis Lotus 25!...Lighter and stiffer it was just as dominant as the MS/Ferrari combo' is now!

If anything "Killed F1" it was Technology and who ever employed it best eg...Ferrari at the moment!...Name of the game is to do it better...It's called "FORMULA ONE"

[Speed]

Is F1 dead?

*looks for a new sport to watch next year*

[Sato san]

Originally Posted by AdamAshmore

Most of us on this board are into F1 because of Bernie..

IMO , Bernie has built F1 into the huge event it is , He made it great and then best part ruined it by allowing it and encouraging it down the wrong paths . Many things from my perspective seem to be that he is in it for his own personal glory and weath rather than for the good of the sport of Motor racing .

I also think that many people nowdays are not interested in F1 because of Bernie ...ticket prices, poor value for money , terrible access to the cars or drivers .....for the average family that think spending £200 to go and watch a f1 race at Silverstone is a joke ...

Why do Silverstone have to charge that amount ??....because of Bernie and his companies isnt it ?...

Originally Posted by krt917

Woodbine and RaceFreak make good points. I don't believe that F1 is dead, but it is a shadow of what it could be.

I totally agree with this .....F1 isnt dead , of course not ....But it could look a hell of a lot better than it does now ...thats for sure.
As a huge race fan , i wll always watch f1 and still enjoy it ....but there is a hell of a lot wrong with it ...thats needs addresssing quickly to safeguard the sport and keep it at the pinnicle .

[Kicking-back]

Sato San - Silverstone is usually fully sold-out charging the ticket prices it does - so it wouldn't achieve anything to cut those prices.

[Sato san]

Its not silverstone that i have the issue with ...

yep , im there every year too ....But we talking about the principle of WHY they have to charge those prices .and it comes back to the ridiculous amount they have to pay Bernie and his companys to host the event in the 1st place ....

This is one reason that i can say , that is worries me for what reason Bernie does take and push F1 nowdays .

[GVROK]

It is sad to say but one mans megalomania has killed F1. When one person takes four fifths of all TV money 'appearance money as was', and all trackside and hospitality revenues there is something wrong. If the chairman of your football club took four fifths of the gate money and TV money every week.... you wouldn't be too happy. But they all signed the Concorde Agreement - I hear you say. I say ... so what ? they signed that agreement in positive economic conditions which deteriorated rapidly thereafter. If you strike a deal that turns out to be unfair on the other party there is nothing that says you can't re-negotiate, particularly if you claim to have everybody's best interests at heart..... yes a pure megalomaniac. Will anybody see the $93m that was pocketed because Interpublic [/B]couldn't promote the British GP ?

[Kicking-back]

Even if hosting a Grand Prix cost just £1 million, if a circuit could get a crowd of 100 000 to pay £500 a ticket each, they would charge that.

[Teretonga]

Trying to work out who killed F1 is a waste of time. No one person or group of people killed it.
It began to die when we entered the era of corporate two speak and political correctness during the mid to late nineties. Then we had the manipulation of F1, trying to manipulate the outcomes by introducing various 'entertainments to the sport to 'spice' up the game for the benefit of television without making the really hard decisions. Such things as messing with the pointscoring, grooved tyres, changing qualifying procedures and refuelling are all items I would include in that basket.

Something also went out of the sport when Prost retired from driving and Ayrton was killed, both within months of each other. For all Mikey's brilliance and domination we have never had the strong personalities that the Jones/Piquet/Rosberg/Lauda/Prost/Senna/ and Mansell era had. It all became very clever and neat but the soul was lost. Although many younger readers won't identify with this, because they weren't around or interested in F1 during the late 70's/80's/early 90's, that was F1's 'Golden Era'.

What we have now is a cardboard facade trying to assure us it's the real thing.

[Adam43]

If you wanted to, you could say that against most 'divisions' of motor-racing.

It just makes more people happier to say it against F1.

[raul_iulian]

I tell u who killed F1 - M.O.N.E.Y
2 much money

[Adam43]

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