Ominous performance from Toro Rosso?

[naughtymutt]

I should think toyota, renault etc will be more worried when McLaren and Ferrari turn up with V10 in bahrain.... they are still testing them.

[ECW Dan Selby]

haha What a point /\

Selby

[BertMk2]

Originally Posted by BootsOntheSide

By the time the deal was done for Red Bull to buy the team, it was too late for them to get a contract with any other engine supplier.

Since when has hard logic like that been enough to stop the bickering in F1

Originally Posted by BootsOntheSide

teams runnig differnet engine configurations wasn't a problem in the past.

But in the past there was no attempt at limiting the engines to provide parity you paid your money and made your choice.

[Dutton]

Originally Posted by gwyllion

Incorrect. Please read http://f1.racing-live.com/f1/en/head...16090835.shtml

"Furthermore, Scuderia Toro Rosso - testing the actual '05 Red Bull in Bahrain this week - now owns the intellectual property rights of the STR01 design, meaning that - in essence – the copy is legal."

If it owns the intellectual copyright, then, in legal terms, it has, to use that article's term from before the quote I have extracted, "penned" the design itself.

Mosley has said more than once in the past that if a team owns the intellectual copyright to a design, and it manufactures the chassis itself, then it is legal.

*****

Anyway, back on topic again, I would say that teams cannot complain if other teams operate under the legal framework provided. They might have an issue with the rule, and in that case they can fight against it. They may even, as in this case, ackonowledge the rule but differ on the validity of interpretation.

If non-STR teams started to run the V10s, then there could possibly be some cause for complaint; however, IMHO, one thing is certain: no-one can justifiably complain about STR running the V10s.

[RaceFreak]

Didn't the TEAMS themselves agree on the V-10 specifications? If they get their butts kicked by a specification they approved then that's just their (miscalculated) tough luck. To change the spec after-the-fact is simply whining.

[Dutton]

Of course it is whining.

That is a speciality of F1!

[mp356a]

Originally Posted by Silk Cut Jaguar

,....

So expect Toro Rosso to delay the rev limit by sandbagging for a few races before letting all the horses go and sneaking a podium finish.

At a high profile race........

[Dutton]

...where the higher torque may well happen to be extra beneficial....

[Raglanparade]

Sandbagging till Monaco are we suggesting ??

[bosch!]

Originally Posted by jasonhill9884

Sandbagging till Monaco are we suggesting ??

Only fair, DC would have had a podium there last year in the RB1 if he wasnt rear ended by TFG

[Tathrim]

I wougld like to point out about the official figures for engine performance in F1RACING (March 2006, p16)
---------------Max bhp ------Quali rpm ---Race rpm
Cossy V8------ 745 ----------19,800 -----19,100
Honda ---------730 ----------19,300------18,500
Ferrari ---------730 ----------19,200 -----18,200
Cossy V10 -----725 ----------16,700 -----16,700
Toyota ---------720 ---------19,200 -----18,200
Renault ---------720 ---------19,100 -----18,300
BMW -----------715 ---------18,900 -----18,100
Mercedes -------710 --------18,100 ------17,500




This means STR have an apparent rev limit from the start of the season, so sandbagging wouldn't be posible at monaco and only just possible in Melbourne

[mooneyda]

Originally Posted by Racer_kyle

Would Red Bull let themselves be beaten by their own B team though?

It's simple!! They won't be beaten by STR....

[mooneyda]

Originally Posted by jasonhill9884

Sandbagging till Monaco are we suggesting ??

Well it would be a bit obvious when they are 1 and 2 in Qually and from nowhere!! FIA wouldn't be long checking the engine config after such an occurrance to make sure all reg's are been kept.

Looking at the figures from the previous post it seems better off to have a V8 Cossy and not a V10. So it seems STR are at a disadvantage.

[bosch!]

Originally Posted by Tathrim

I wougld like to point out about the official figures for engine performance in F1RACING (March 2006, p16)
---------------Max bhp ------Quali rpm ---Race rpm
Cossy V8------ 745 ----------19,800 -----19,100
Honda ---------730 ----------19,300------18,500
Ferrari ---------730 ----------19,200 -----18,200
Cossy V10 -----725 ----------16,700 -----16,700
Toyota ---------720 ---------19,200 -----18,200
Renault ---------720 ---------19,100 -----18,300
BMW -----------715 ---------18,900 -----18,100
Mercedes -------710 --------18,100 ------17,500

Official figures??? You mean assumed figures.

[Nicholosophy]

No one really knows what is going to happen. We will only see the whole picture at the first race. I think Midland should be packing it though...

[Marbot]

Cossy V10 should be ultra-reliable,frugal and torquey especially as it's now tuned for torque as it were.I can see why some teams are up in arms about the V10,but looking at the above figures it seems that Cosworth have every right to say that the V10 is nothing special compared with their own V8.Indeed,if those figures are right,Cosworth can race with what other teams are qualifying with.

[Tathrim]

Ahh... yep, but there have been rumours flying saying that these are reasonably accurate at this stage.

[sonic]

Originally Posted by BootsOntheSide

teams runnig differnet engine configurations wasn't a problem in the past.

The problem today with is that there are restrictions on the V8 runners - engines have a minimum weight limit - and cannot exploit their real weight advantage over the V10.

the other problem is, IIRC, almost all teams opted to run V10s even when they had the freedom to choose other configurations because the V10 was generally considered to be the best package.

[Silk Cut Jaguar]

Originally Posted by Tathrim

Ahh... yep, but there have been rumours flying saying that these are reasonably accurate at this stage.

Teams can gauge rivals engine performance quite accurately via clever software and microphones. The pecking order might not be totally accurate as only the teams know what stage they are at with engine development but I'd wager the list isn't far off.

I live in hope that the Cosworth specs are spot on.

[mooneyda]

Originally Posted by Silk Cut Jaguar

I live in hope that the Cosworth specs are spot on.

You hopes will be realised!! Cosworth are at this stage and getting better, I have on good authority!

Ferrari won't be far off the Cossy either.

[JeremySmith]

Originally Posted by mooneyda

You hopes will be realised!! Cosworth are at this stage and getting better, I have on good authority!

Ferrari won't be far off the Cossy either.

That is great to hear I like the idea of Williams and Cosworth sharing success together...Now about the "good authority" part of your post, come on you can tell us can't you?