Lola T360

[swift]

Originally posted by Chris Townsend
The Irish 360 could be HU5 [John's old car] or maybe the remains of HU7 [Wentz's original car]. Also, we don't know for sure what happened to the original Scott/Bailey car from 1974, which - if it wasn't the car now known as AU1 - doesn't appear after mid 74

Chris

Sorry to come in half way through the thread. Although I can't confirm the chassis number of the Bailey/Scott car. I can confirm the the car was destroyed at Silverstone on the first lap of the British GP support race in '74 along with several others in a huge shunt at Copse on the first lap. However, when the remains were taken back to Lola's factory, Ken was given a brand new tub. THe new car was built up transfering as many of the bits that were salvagable from the damaged car. Ken's mechanic spent a week at the factory building up the new car. but because it never had as many "trick" bits as the original car it was never as quick, so Ken and Lola parted company. Ken's mechanic spends most of his time in he States now but I'll try and ask him if he can remember any important bits of info about the 2 cars. the original one was predominately dark blue with a few orange sections by the way

[Colin Haste]

Dan & Chris
T362 HU18 is in the states and owned by a Cy Moreland (see my post page 3) he calls it a T361 and discribes it as a 460 rear with a 360 front,see page 164 of the Starky book Lola 57 to 77the car top left discribed as a T450 looks like the car.interesting that the Scott/Baily car was dark blue my T360 AU1 as discribed was also dark blue.
Colin

[Lola Registry]

Restoring HU2 and would like to find out if anyone has, or know where I could possibly find period pictures of the car. The car was driven by a Mike Hall of United Racing Ltd. with the number 26. I found 6 races that the car participated in during 1975. 5 races with the Players Formula Atlantic Series (Canada) and one race with the SCCA Formula B race in Brainerd. Trying to see how the car was configured and the paint and graphics that were on the car during that year. Anyone have any pics? Also any later information between 76-80 would be helpful as well. Thanks Allan

[David McKinney]

Is it a 360 or a 360B?
My records have Hall in a 360B in 1975

[allenbrown]

Hi Allan

Just been looking around your web site and have dropped you an email. Please let me know if you have any issues with my request.

I'm happy to help with the history of T360 HU2. As well as the Formula Atlantic results that I guess you've seen on OldRacingCars.com, I also have some information regarding its time as the 'Banana Crate Special' in Can-Am.

Kind regards

Allen Brown
OldRacingCars.com

[Lola Registry]

David- My chassis plate shows this as a T360 (A), not B, HU2 and engine number 007 342. What does the A and B suffixes mean? And while I have seen these suffixes on other cars, I have not yet come across the same HU number repeated. I assumed it was for a purpose built car for a customer who wanted a slight change from standard configuration. So Lola would have pulled the next chassis and stamped the plate with a A,B, or S after the sequential HU number. But I am not absolutely sure.

Allen - I'm on it. I did see your site and several others have found the following info on the car.

1975 - 5 races in the Palyer (Canadian) Formula Atlantic Series, and one race with the SCCA Formula B Series. Driven by Mike Hall under United Racing Ltd., #26, appears that Bill O'Connor was his team mate

1976 - 1986 No information found, although Doug Moe (SCCA Chapter President Wa), previous owner, told me he campaigned the car throughout the 80's in the CAT series around the Seattle Washington area with a Mazda rotary in Can Am configuration.

1987 - World Sports Racing Prototypes shows the car running in the Can Am CAT series in 4 races driven by Bill Hill, possibly called the "Banna crate" under number 73. I assume this was the last time the car raced since the CAT series ended shortly thereafter, and I had recieved the car in that configuration. This is a period shot from one of those races, but be warned, it is pretty ugly http://www.thelolaregistry.com/Projects/T360/T360.htm

[allenbrown]

I believe Bill Hill would have had this car before Doug Moe and I think he ran it in Can-Am as the Banana Crate before the CAT series in 1987. The CAT series only lasted that one year so I don't know what races Doug Moe would have raced it in. SCCA Nationals or Regionals?

Allen

[David McKinney]

The period of the Lola T360s was when I began to realise the impossibility of tracking every individual racing-car ever built, and as a result even I don't trust my records as much as I do those for earlier years.
However, my assumption was that the 360B was an updated version of the 360, based on (a) no mention of 360Bs before 1975 and (b) a history for one 360B quite different from a 360 with the same HU number. Perhaps that was just my naiveté showing!
Your mention of a 360A throws me completely!

[Lola Registry]

Allen - I understand your logic for the time line, but I was going on anecdotal information from Doug Moe. He had owned a Mazda dealership or was involved with Mazda somehow and I was told he was the one who fabricated the car. Bill Hill was a friend of his who ran it in the CAT series for that one year. I recall he telling me that he had just used the car in local SCCA events. I had also been contacted by several other Seattle area racers who remembered the car and Doug who again was the chapter President at that time. Apparently there was another T360 unknown HU number, that was converted to this same Mazda configuration by Doug in the Seattle area. I spoke to the owner briefly but he was not interested in providing any meaningful information and wanted a new Harley in trade. I assume that there were a few of these cars in that area which ran at the club or regional level.

David - Welcome to the club. With only 19 T360's made according to Lola Cars Ltd., you would think it would be easier. Plus I see HU20 surfacing on Race-cars.com and have found no history on that car. I spoke with Colin Haste who owns the frist prototype which was used as a buck by Lola and sold later in Australia with a AU1 Lola plate. HU2 was suppose to be the first production car sold. But I found information on a HU1 that I am tracking down. I'll contact Lola Cars Ltd. and see if I could clear up the suffix issue. Perhaps they could shed some light here. Will let you know, Allan

[allenbrown]

I didn't realise Moe was Hill's owner. In that case, the Banana Crate Mazda that Hill drove in 1984, 1985 and 1986 may have been a different car.

[Lola Registry]

Clarification to my last post. Just spoke with Dean Baker who owns HU22. He believes that Lola Cars did not manufacture the T360's with the numbers HU1, 7, and 13. Ergo HU 22 was the 19th and last T360 made. First (B) car I found was Ted Wenz's car which was configured as an Atlantic and Formula 2 car in order for Wenz to make good on his sponsorship obligations. But I understand Weller (sp?) fabricated the changes so not sure if Lola would have had stamped a (B) on the plate. Still checking with Lola Cars Ltd. about the (A) and (B) classifications. Were there any publications that covered the Player races that would have any pictures? Maybe one of Bobby Rahal with the 26 car being passed in the foreground?

[Steve Wilkinson]

Originally Posted by Lola Registry

Clarification to my last post. Just spoke with Dean Baker who owns HU22. He believes that Lola Cars did not manufacture the T360's with the numbers HU1, 7, and 13. Ergo HU 22 was the 19th and last T360 made. First (B) car I found was Ted Wenz's car which was configured as an Atlantic and Formula 2 car in order for Wenz to make good on his sponsorship obligations. But I understand Weller (sp?) fabricated the changes so not sure if Lola would have had stamped a (B) on the plate. Still checking with Lola Cars Ltd. about the (A) and (B) classifications. Were there any publications that covered the Player races that would have any pictures? Maybe one of Bobby Rahal with the 26 car being passed in the foreground?

Try Autosport as they often ran accounts of the Player series.

[Chris Townsend]

Allan:
A good person to contact for pictures of FB-Atlantic races is Chris Waddell
who has supplied me with many images from 1975.
If you send me a pm I will give you his email. There are no pictures Hall or Connor in British mags, and I can't remember any in Formula for that year.
From race and newspaper reports and interviews I believe that the HU2 car
run by O'Connor for Hall in 1975 was the car he ran for Tom Klausler in late 74.
Based on appearances - rather than Lola build records for the T360 which I've
never obtained - HU1 was probably the works supported car run in England for
Ken Bailey and Richard Scott.
There are numerous interviews with Klausler in 74 and press reports in the American and Canadian press which confirm that United Racing bought the first
two production T360s. There is one interview wtih Klausler that implies he had the first of these. These would be HU2 and HU3
The first confirmed chassis no we have for a T360 is HU5 - the Clarkson car in late 74. However, there appears before this one other car, for Gary Magwood in Canada, which suggests HU4 on the basis of appearance dates.
HU6 is not recorded anywhere, but might have been Lola's replacement for HU1 when Ken Bailey had a very big accident in late summer 1974. My suspicion is that this car was then the works supported car in the Canadian series in 1975, driven by Dave Walker, so it probably ended up in the US/Canada.
HU7 [built Nov 1974] is recorded both by Adam Ferrington and Motoring News in early 1975 as the Wentz car. No B suffix, or anything special about the plate it would seem. The candidate for the T360B would surely by HU18 - the late 1975 season works development car loaned to Wentz after HU7 was written off. However, the plate of this seems to state it's a T360, not a B nor even a T362 as it's sometimes called.

Of the later cars I only have partial histories on HU14 and 15, both of which may have gone to Pierre Phillips' team in 1975.

Allen [Brown!]: From what I've recently found in an American ad it would seem as though the Banana Crate was a name applied to differing cars. At some point in the 1980s Moe owns a March Atlantic chassis.

Chris

From

[allenbrown]

Originally Posted by Chris Townsend

Based on appearances - rather than Lola build records for the T360 which I've never obtained

Do you want to? I think I have a source...

Originally Posted by Chris Townsend

Allen [Brown!]: From what I've recently found in an American ad it would seem as though the Banana Crate was a name applied to differing cars. At some point in the 1980s Moe owns a March Atlantic chassis.

That's bad news. Time to contact Bill Hill I think. I have an email address for him. Or is anyone else already in contact with him?

Allen

[Chris Townsend]

Do I want T360 build records?
See that bear disappearing towards the treeline, carrying a roll of Andrex?

I presume that Haas will be the usual consignee, but colour and date can tell
us a lot with T360s

Chris

[allenbrown]

I'll see what I can do

(T360s reminded me that I'd never announced the 1976 G8 results on ORC. Just done that. )

[allenbrown]

Bill Hill just emailed me back and confirmed that the 'Banana Crate' and the Lola T360 were completely different cars. The Banana Crate was based on a March chassis and was written off in a spectacular accident in 1986.

Chris - T360 sheet in the post to me very soon, I've just been told.

Allen

[Lola Registry]

Recieved a response from Lola Heritage regarding the missing numbers and the suffix (A) (B) etc. Here's what they had to say:

I can answer part of your question as it relates to the numbering. From the T210/212 series of cars no vehicles were dispatched with a chassis number 13. Up until then there was a 13 in all model runs which reached that many cars. However there was some inconsistancy as the following models did have a chassis number 13;

T644, T87.00, T88.00, T89.00, &T89.50.
One of the senior members of staff recalled that Bobby Rahall chose to purchase chassis numbered 13 as a' good luck' influence so perhaps that is why the majority of those bearing that number are Champcars. The refernce to 1 & 7 seems to be erroneous save that chassis 1 in some cases was a Factory development car and probably sold later under a different type number or sequence.

As to the suffix letters there is no one who recalls them being used or why if they were. I have sent a message to Laurie Bray to see if he can shead any light on that for you. I will let you know his reply in due course.

Allen - Did Bill Hill mention anything about HU2 when he raced it in 1987? Confirming ownership and what happened before and after? Thanks Allan

[Lola Registry]

Chris - PM'ed you for Chris Waddell's contact info. If you would like, just e-mail it to me directly at gearbox@comcast.net Thanks Allan

[Colin Haste]

Chris
Cy Moreland has the colours and gearbox to chassis numbers records you may have his email if not let me know and I will send it independant of this site. Colin

[Chris Townsend]

Colin

Allen has received T360 sales records from an un-named source. They don't really help that much except that the sequence runs HU2 to HU22. HU1 doesn't appear but has to be the UK prototype car since it appears before any of the dates for sales. HU7 is given as sold to Planner International [this was the company that owned the Wella brand, Wentz's sponsor] Neither chassis 13 nor 19 appear on the record. 13 wouldn't have been built. 19 is a bit odd. The shipment dates, and order numbers are not in sequence with the chassis numbers. The last ordered and shipped is HU17 in July 75.
The one extra car we can immediately identify is HU16 going to Pierre Phillips. This would have been the car for Tom Gloy

Chris

[dereklola]

I have a 10x8 colour print picked up at a flea market several years ago - happy to mail to you - probably taken at Nelson Ledges in Ohio - dates are as stamped on the back of the prints -
- 31 Jul 1977 - Yellow Lola T360 - race no 25
Let me have your address if you want the print. email me at derek at lola7 dot com.

[Chris Townsend]

T360-15 was a Pierre Phillips team car, raced by Weichmann in 1975 and then I guess the car of Sans Thompson, who was a Phillips mechanic.

[Chris Townsend]

Derek

The yellow and black T360 from 1977 I don't know, but might be Rick Koehler.

[Dan Rear]

Originally Posted by Chris Townsend

Dan

I agree. ATS only ever entered one car, shared between Kozarowitzky, Arpianen and Wentz.
Roland Binder had one.
Mallock stuffs one and gets it replaced. This might well be HU3 replacing HU1 except it doesn't satisfy the provenance for the Render car as being ex Mallock-Russell. [Which HU1 replacing HU3 does].

The T362 is T360 - HU18 which Wentz took on in Sept 75 after Roy Baker threw HU7 at the Oulton Park banks in testing. Used by Trimmer early 76 then to Mike King, both in Indyatlantic, then to Carl Liebich in Canada and still there.

Chris

Is this T362, ie HU18, the one mentioned in the latest MSport, that Steve Maxted's got for this year? If so, I presume he's brought it in from the US.