Henri considering a Peugeot 908, or a move to the ALMS.

[canam]

Originally Posted by The Badger

Teams will pay for a strong package ..... for example Goh , Oreca R8 , Champion , Veloqx for example .

yes...and only one of those names is still in the current spec prototype racing business. Those teams sure did pay for a strong package (and there not doing it any more).

[cmk]

And the only one that is "simply" provides the manpower for a true factory effort rather than trying to bankroll their project and finding out how much it hurts in the pocket...

[The Badger]

Oreca are planning an LMP1 return .....

I would suggest that Champion are "not" being let play with the R10 ?

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by The Badger

Oreca are planning an LMP1 return .....

I would suggest that Champion are "not" being let play with the R10 ?

Also what about Joest?

L.P.

[Fogelhund]

ASNA (Audi Sport North America) primarily "is" Champion, with some Joest people involved as well. While I'd like to see Champion back as their own entity, and multiple Audi entries, I'd hope they would have equal access to equipment this time.

[The Badger]

Originally Posted by HORNDAWG

Also what about Joest?

L.P.

Jöst ran them at Le Mans .....

If they race in Europe , it will be Jöst .

[The Badger]

Did they not have equal equipment before ?

[AU N EGL]

Originally Posted by The Badger

What engine would you suggest then ?

The Judd is about the best privateer engine out there at presant .

absoulty the Judd is a great engine, but is it up to par with Audi and the Pug?

[The Badger]

Of corse it isnt ..... Judd doesnt have that kind of wedge to develop technology to beat Pug & Audi .....

Although it might be on a par if the rules were fair ..... Petrol v's Diesel !!!

[canam]

Originally Posted by AU N EGL

absoulty the Judd is a great engine, but is it up to par with Audi and the Pug?

Depends on who you ask and what regs you run. On current regs, a dyno would probably say there is between 50 and 100 bhp difference in favour of the diesels. The oilers would say....ahem, yes...(clear throat) that they are being penalised (I guess 'cos there is more cooling and special gearbox requirements WITH ALL THAT EXTRA POWER.)

[Svierge]

Originally Posted by marcel82

let him go to ALMS, and lose to LMP2 cars, let's see how he likes that

Would that happen? Creation and Zytek were both quick enough at Laguna last year. The Porsches have come on a long way, admittedly, but on a longer circuit it'd be close.

Going OT, but marcel82's comment is pretty unpleasant and deserves a decent response, the Peugeot is the fastest LMP car around in my opinion. Having witnessed it first hand at every race (plus the Ricard test) this year it truly is extraordinary fast. And the difference between Europe and the ALMS is that slower circuits simply have no effect on it, unlike the Audi vs LMP2 battle in ALMS. At Valencia, a very small and slow motorbike track, the Peugeots were simply staggering in practice and the opening laps - they're like slot cars on circuit: never sliding or moving around.

I honestly think that if the Peugeot went to the States it'd win the sprint races with relative ease. As a sprint car it is untouchable.

So, in a roundabout way, I think Henri would stand a better chance in ALMS. It'd be hellishly tough, but he would at least be in the race for the lead, rather than 3rd place.

[Hammerdown]

Yep, have to agree with that. The Audi truly is a LeMans special and I think the Peugeot was turned down quite a bit for the 24H. The Peugeot would wipe the floor with Audi in the ALMS and probably the LMES. I think the top European LMP1s would be a match for for the Audis in ALMS, even without the big weight break.

[chewymonster]

The Creations raced @ 860 kg last year. Not 925.

[Svierge]

Originally Posted by chewymonster

The Creations raced @ 860 kg last year. Not 925.

Are you referring to LMS, ALMS or both?

[chewymonster]

ALMS at Laguna.

[dj4monie]

Originally Posted by Svierge

Would that happen? Creation and Zytek were both quick enough at Laguna last year. The Porsches have come on a long way, admittedly, but on a longer circuit it'd be close.

Going OT, but marcel82's comment is pretty unpleasant and deserves a decent response, the Peugeot is the fastest LMP car around in my opinion. Having witnessed it first hand at every race (plus the Ricard test) this year it truly is extraordinary fast. And the difference between Europe and the ALMS is that slower circuits simply have no effect on it, unlike the Audi vs LMP2 battle in ALMS. At Valencia, a very small and slow motorbike track, the Peugeots were simply staggering in practice and the opening laps - they're like slot cars on circuit: never sliding or moving around.

I honestly think that if the Peugeot went to the States it'd win the sprint races with relative ease. As a sprint car it is untouchable.

So, in a roundabout way, I think Henri would stand a better chance in ALMS. It'd be hellishly tough, but he would at least be in the race for the lead, rather than 3rd place.

I wouldn't go quite that far....

And wouldn't it BE interesting??? Clearly save for ONE LMP2 effort in Europe they are basically hacks. I know all you Brits would like to see the Pilbeam go well for example, but let's be honest... Same with John Judd and Lola, but the fact remains nothing can beat cubic-dollars/euros/pounds.

In the ALMS there are really only 3 tracks where the LMP1's have an outright advantage -

Mosport, Road America and Sebring

LMP2 cars are close, but have to push hard to keep up and that usually brings mistakes...

For the other 9 or so races it runs, OH would it be INTERESTING.

Henri would have an impact here because he brings TOP drivers with his team and cars unlike the other LMP-1 teams currently.

With the mistakes that have happen to both Audi, Acura and Porsche this season, Ole' Henri could be leading the points and the Independent's Cup.

In LMS he is going to finish a DISTANT 3rd the entire season when they had enjoyed some success because of not facing a pure factory efforts before. Clearly teams like Henri needs the same tools that the factories use to be competitive.

I would welcome him with open arms to show Autocon and Intersport what a proper private LMP1 team looks like.

[Hammerdown]

Were they 860 at PLM as well? What are the P1 weights this year? I seem to remember reading somewhere that the Creations were running at 890, though can't find the reference now.

[Hammerdown]

Come to think of it (just seen the car on my screensaver!), what was the Shimoda/Chilton car running at when it won at laguna Seca?

[SebringMG]

IF he does PLM and Laguna then it is possible he will assess the strength of the Audi's over 'short tracks' against his car which may influence him to go to the ALMS.
Now it all depends on whether he can maintain his sponsors or get new ones as to whether he can do the ALMS - he would be guaranteed a third at least every time out (Autocon and Intersport are just not good enough to compete) and should be able to target Audi on most of the NA tracks.

Lola build very good chassis - remember all the chassis builders have to make money out of there projects the manufacturers don't therefore they can do more research to get the last 5-10% of performance irrespective of the cost.....this is why they will always be quicker (unless they screwup)

Judd and the other engine manufacturers need to sort themselves out though - the AER V8 is not great but shows potential, while the Judd is long in the tooth and near the end of its development - probably need an all new design in reality. Zytek is very good for sprints but lacking over anything greater than 6 hours.
Wish someone would try a Cossie - they are the best engine builders out there in the private domain and yes it may be F1 orinetated in recent years, the talent they have is far greater than any of the other builders......but guess it is expensive ?
Saw an article that stated Cosworth could make an endurance engine out of the old 3 litre F1 V10 - would be interesting

[vorsprung]

Originally Posted by Hammerdown

Were they 860 at PLM as well? What are the P1 weights this year? I seem to remember reading somewhere that the Creations were running at 890, though can't find the reference now.

Minumum weight 860kg and maximum fuel tanks size 95 litres for all gasoline P1s at PLM and LS last year.
Currently Creation CA06H minimum weight is 875kg.

Originally Posted by Hammerdown

Come to think of it (just seen the car on my screensaver!), what was the Shimoda/Chilton car running at when it won at laguna Seca?

Zytek was running to LMP675 regs in 2005. In Le Mans 2004 the factory car weighted 708kg.

[Hugewally]

Originally Posted by Svierge

Would that happen? Creation and Zytek were both quick enough at Laguna last year. The Porsches have come on a long way, admittedly, but on a longer circuit it'd be close.

Going OT, but marcel82's comment is pretty unpleasant and deserves a decent response, the Peugeot is the fastest LMP car around in my opinion. Having witnessed it first hand at every race (plus the Ricard test) this year it truly is extraordinary fast. And the difference between Europe and the ALMS is that slower circuits simply have no effect on it, unlike the Audi vs LMP2 battle in ALMS. At Valencia, a very small and slow motorbike track, the Peugeots were simply staggering in practice and the opening laps - they're like slot cars on circuit: never sliding or moving around.

I honestly think that if the Peugeot went to the States it'd win the sprint races with relative ease. As a sprint car it is untouchable.

The Peugeot might be the fastest in the LMS but it isn't faster than the R10. I think Le Mans put that argument to rest.

[Bentley03]

Originally Posted by Hugewally

The Peugeot might be the fastest in the LMS but it isn't faster than the R10. I think Le Mans put that argument to rest.

If you read what Svierge said, "I honestly think that if the Peugeot went to the States it'd win the sprint races with relative ease. As a sprint car it is untouchable.", the car's performance at Le Mans is irrelevant. Whether or not he is correct is another matter altogether, but I suspect he may well be.............

[Hammerdown]

Amen to that!

At Nurburgring the Pugs were 2 sec faster than the best of the (very professional) petrols on a fairly tight and twisty circuit. Also comprehensively faster at Valencia - tighter and twistier still. The Audis struggle to beat P2s in that kind of racing. LeMans is a 'freak' circuit. I think Audi designed the R10 purely with that in mind, whereas Pug took the broader view as they were planning on winning the LMES series. IMO of course.

[Hugewally]

As a sprint car, it hasn't had to race against the R10 either.

[Bentley03]

Originally Posted by Hugewally

As a sprint car, it hasn't had to race against the R10 either.

Of course, and with Audi's encyclopedia of data relating to the ALMS sprint circuits, one would have to suspect that even if the Peugeot's were quicker on a single lap (than the Audi's or the LMP2's), to actually take a race victory would be something of a challenge (to say the very least!).