The Current State of IndyCar

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by RWill2073

The lack of street and especially road courses is exactly why the irl didn't have more fans.

I'm not too sure about street races, there doesn't seem to be much longevity, unless they have been well established, like Long Beach, Detroit and Toronto. Houston came and went as did Baltimore and Boston never happened and as a result we saw IndyCar returning to Watkins Glen, which proved very popular as well as a successful return to Road America.

[bjohnsonsmith]

An interesting article, http://classic.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/134682 but I don't agree with this: "I've always thought that governors of any spec or near-spec series should feel obliged to make their cars visually appealing and that US open-wheel racing has been poorly served in this millennium, with the exception of the 2007 Panoz DP01 Champ Car.", I thought Lola and Reynard produced two great looking cars, like these two, pictured at 2002 Tecate/Telmex Monterrey Grand Prix.

[S griffin]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

An interesting article, http://classic.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/134682 but I don't agree with this: "I've always thought that governors of any spec or near-spec series should feel obliged to make their cars visually appealing and that US open-wheel racing has been poorly served in this millennium, with the exception of the 2007 Panoz DP01 Champ Car.", I thought Lola and Reynard produced two great looking cars, like these two, pictured at 2002 Tecate/Telmex Monterrey Grand Prix.

RE that article, it seems the split is almost never mentioned these days and indeed Indycar racing is enjoying a revival that it deserves. Fred coming to the Indy 500 last season to compete is a sign it is on the up

[bjohnsonsmith]

A very interesting article from Autosport, in which Penske president Tim Cindric says IndyCar must avoid becoming completely a spec series, as it would be a "short-sighted" decision, believing a common car is for "lower motorsport".

http://classic.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/134831

I like the move to the UAK. It gave us an above average season opener at St. Pete and on the strength of that I'm looking forward to the rest of the season and I don't think we will be dissapointed. It is also very reminiscent of the Lolas, Penskes and Reynards that raced in the late ''80s and early '90s. That said, it is a spec car and not having other chassis manufacturers is missing.

He's right, IndyCar should be calculated on opening one area at a time going forward, rather than continue to reduce it to a spec series. Hopefully, with the introduction of the new engine in 2020, IndyCar might consider opening up chassis manufacturing. I really hope Mark Miles is listening to Tim Cindric.

[Formulahistory]

of course he is saying that as he is from the biggest team. But most fans want good racing, if there are different dampers or wings on the car - who really cares nowadays. It's too expensive to be not a spec series.

[S griffin]

Well he has a good point, it might be nice to see a bit more variety in the series, as it sort of doesn’t feel right Indycar being spec series

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Formulahistory

of course he is saying that as he is from the biggest team. But most fans want good racing, if there are different dampers or wings on the car - who really cares nowadays. It's too expensive to be not a spec series.

I don't think he's saying this because he's in the biggest team. He's saying this because he would like to see IndyCar get back to being the series it used to be, before the Split. IndyCar was never a spec series, until the IRL mandated the Dallara IR05 and the Honda V8.

Is it too expensive? The UAK is much cheaper than the Chevy and Honda aero-kits, so much so that new teams are participating and for the first time in a while, the 500 might have a bump day. How much would it cost to have a standardized tub, which is being used, plus some subtle, visual variation to the UAK? This was an idea put forward by Lola, when chassis manufacturers were bidding to replace the Dallara IR05. Cindric mentions changes in wing end-plates and wing mirrors.

[Paradise City]

Indycar should not be wholly spec. There is genuine human drama to be had from big name suppliers tryin' to outrace each other. CART actually pumped that angle well with its manufacturers cup in its heyday. Indycar doesn't do that much to promote that angle, though.

Simple technology in certain targeted areas that are open for inspection by competitors. That's the sweet spot for some inexpensive multisupplier racing.

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by Formulahistory

of course he is saying that as he is from the biggest team. But most fans want good racing, if there are different dampers or wings on the car - who really cares nowadays. It's too expensive to be not a spec series.

Based on everything I know "spec racing" doesn't save any money. It just puts it into the pockets of a select few. There used to be a little niche industry in Indianapolis of manufacturing and fabricating parts for teams. That's all gone or shifted to other industries. And some of the teams used to fabricate their own stuff which was cheaper and faster than getting a "spec" part from overseas. In many cases those local suppliers could make things for 70% less than what it's going to cost you to buy it from the "spec car" company.

People have been brainwashed into this whole "spec car" thing as being cheaper and it's like one of those internet wisdom memes that goes around with no one questioning it or having any knowledge of what the frick they are talking about.

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by Paradise City

Indycar should not be wholly spec. There is genuine human drama to be had from big name suppliers tryin' to outrace each other. CART actually pumped that angle well with its manufacturers cup in its heyday. Indycar doesn't do that much to promote that angle, though.

Simple technology in certain targeted areas that are open for inspection by competitors. That's the sweet spot for some inexpensive multisupplier racing.

The most successful periods in open wheel formula racing over the past 110 years is when people are pushing the limits. The whole indy racing league and it's ugly child in it's current form have never understood that.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by mountainstar

The most successful periods in open wheel formula racing over the past 110 years is when people are pushing the limits. The whole indy racing league and it's ugly child in it's current form have never understood that.

If they never understood that, it looks like they are realising it with a car that's harder to drive.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by mountainstar

Based on everything I know "spec racing" doesn't save any money. It just puts it into the pockets of a select few. There used to be a little niche industry in Indianapolis of manufacturing and fabricating parts for teams. That's all gone or shifted to other industries. And some of the teams used to fabricate their own stuff which was cheaper and faster than getting a "spec" part from overseas. In many cases those local suppliers could make things for 70% less than what it's going to cost you to buy it from the "spec car" company.

People have been brainwashed into this whole "spec car" thing as being cheaper and it's like one of those internet wisdom memes that goes around with no one questioning it or having any knowledge of what the frick they are talking about.

This is the absolute truth in my experience too, spec series are just a licence for the "spec car" company to print money.

If you want a spec series, spec the blueprints and let anyone build the car! Multiple suppliers of parts are the secret to economy of supply.

[NaBUru38]

Formula E is opening different parts every few seasons, which is great for engineering and brand marketing. But I'm not sure if it will attract fans.

[TheMightyM]

Robin Miller on IndyCar ovals, after the series again didn't draw very many fans at Phoenix:

There couldn't have been 7,500 people at Phoenix on Saturday night to watch another ho-hum race (except for the closing six laps) on a pretty damn nice evening to sit outside.

And…

This isn't an isolated case, it's simply the reality of 2018 – ovals and IndyCar just aren't compatible business partners anymore.

And…

IndyCar's diversity has always been its calling card, and ovals have always been its wow factor. But other than Indy and Gateway's rebirth, the rest of the ovals on the Verizon schedule are seriously lacking support and atmosphere.

It's hard to swallow but ovals are IndyCar's endangered species and, other than a couple tracks, they may soon be extinct.

[fieldodreams79]

Originally Posted by TheMightyM

Robin Miller on IndyCar ovals, after the series again didn't draw very many fans at Phoenix:

Unfortunately and sadly, I agree with Robin. I love the ovals and still look forward to them, but they've been trending downward for a bit now. Maybe there's some hope the new package can improve a bit, but the fans need to show up for the races. Outside of Memorial Day weekend, they just aren't going to oval races.

[broadrun96]

That's just insane if it was truly 7500, I'm betting old guys in their F1 play toys brought more to Road Atlanta with a week notice. Although the race was fun, it's not the kind of thing that brings in new fans flipping channels. Richmond under the lights used to be great but I'll admit I don't even know if it's on the schedule any longer. Iowa is supposed to be fun but I haven't watched it either so maybe I'm the problem.

[D.R.T.]

I think Indycar needs to persevere with the ovals with the introduction of the new styled car and the introduction of the new TV deal.

This isn't going to be a quick fix - especially with the racing deficiencies at Pheonix over the last few years.

Iowa is very racey and they need to get back under lights there ASAP

[bjohnsonsmith]

To say, "This isn't an isolated case, it's simply the reality of 2018 – ovals and IndyCar just aren't compatible business partners anymore." is way off the mark. There's only been one oval race so far in 2018 and therefore too early make such a claim. It will be interesting to see how the rest of the oval races pan out this year, considering the IR-15 now has the UAK.

Last year was a mixed bag. Phoenix and Gateway were dull. However, Iowa was ok and Pocono was an excellent race. Texas was like an old IRL pack race and then turned into a series of 30 lap sprint races because the surface was degrading the tyres. As for Indy, what I watched was great.

I think one of the problems is holding some of these races on Saturday night. I think most people would rather be doing something else than go to a track and watch a car race on a Saturday night, or stay home and watch it on TV. Maybe one night race and really big it up but leave it at that.

[Formulahistory]

it would ne very sad to see oval tracks out of IndyCar as it's very good racing on it.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Formulahistory

it would ne very sad to see oval tracks out of IndyCar as it's very good racing on it.

They won't get rid of them totally because of the 500 but just because Phoenix hasn't worked out too well, doesn't mean it won't work out well on other ovals.

[fieldodreams79]

PIR, Indy, Texas, Iowa, Pocono and Gateway are on the current schedule. Looks like Texas is the only night race. Agreed with DRT as Iowa Corn 300 needs to be at night.

I don't think we'll see Michigan or Fontana anytime soon and I know we've done this several times, but what are the other ovals possible:

Richmond is my #1
New Hampshire
Pikes Peak
Milwaukee

Maybes:
Homesstead
Kentucky
Kansas
Chicago

Nos for me:
Vegas, Atlanta, Charlotte

I think 2 additional races later in the year would work, not to take any road courses out. And I really feel the series finale at a speedway is the way to go.

[MrBloodmuffins]

I disagree with adding more night races. At least, if there are any new night races, they should be on the east coast where the majority of the viewership seems to be.

[fieldodreams79]

Originally Posted by MrBloodmuffins

I disagree with adding more night races. At least, if there are any new night races, they should be on the east coast where the majority of the viewership seems to be.

So from a TV viewing standpoint, I get this. Also keep in mind more people are apt to watch programming in the summer in the evenings. Richmond at night is a no brainer for the series, imho. Need a sponsor.

Dusk or early evening better, in your opinion? Racing from light to dark adds some intrigue.

[BudLightJaguar]

Personally I like night races to start during the sunset. Gateway last year was little bit dull in my opinion when it was already dark before the green flag.

[NaBUru38]

I agree that sunset races are the best.